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INTEREST: Eiichiro Oda and Nobuhiro Watasuki Interview Included in Rurouni Kenshin Exhibition Catalo


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#836735



Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:00 pm Reply with quote
Kisuke525 wrote:
Ok so you're just assuming then. I thought maybe you had something to back it up that I might have missed like an interview or something. I don't think working would stop him from getting help at all. The help that he would be getting would be a once or twice a week type of thing that would only last a few hours. Even if he was a weekly author that would still be doable because even weekly authors have more free time than that. And remember this is Japan the work ethic there is completely different the amount of time he stopped for makes perfect sense to me and Shueisha probably wanted him back as fast as possible so that the sales wouldn't drop "as scummy as that sounds it's probably somewhat true" and so that the empty spot wouldn't remain empty or get filled by something that sold less. The original series was a MASSIVE hit and while the sequel sells nowhere near as well "obviously" it was still selling really well when it started especially for series that run in Jump SQ and as far as I remember they have not changed much since his return.

I don't think anyone think's that he's completely recovered "I don't at least" but I honestly believe that he is getting help in some form at least. Hopefully it's professional help but even some kind of help from family and friends is something. That's why people shouldn't
be attacking people like Oda who are still willing to stand beside him in some way. I mean damn the dude is Oda's mentor and friend who he's known for over 20 years and some people are saying Oda might be a pedophile just because he's willing to give him a second chance. Watsuki needs help and a second chance. Denying him that help isn't good for him or the people around him and could lead to him never recovering or possibly even doing something worse.

As for the Japanese being more lenient about CP issues, yes they are. You gotta remember CP only became illegal in Japan about 5 years ago, compared to say the USA which if I remember correctly completely banned it back in the 1980s, so many people are probably less willing to crucify him for it. And "believe me on this or don't" I asked my Japanese friend about him coming back when he did and he said that he thought that many people would be angrier if he didn't because then he wouldn't be contributing to society, so that might explain why he came back when he did.


Yes, I was assuming, hard to find proofs when they're not giving any hint about how is he doing and plain getting the guy on work again. I hope it's like you are saying and Watsuki is getting help, but I'm still thinking that he came back too soon. The Hokkaido arc was starting and iirc there were about 2 chapters before all this happened, there were no volumes to sell so I don't know how "the sales wouldn't drop" getting him working soon. As much as I love the series, it's really sad and disgusting how most people choose to get the series published as soon as possible instead of getting the guy out of public eye for some time to at least give the impression that he's really getting help. For what I've read about manga artist schedule, it's not exactly as relaxed as you're saying, but nvmd, again, I hope it's as you're saying and he is indeed getting help. As for Oda, I never referred to him, 'cause I can't really blame him, I'm no one to decide how he must handle all this and I don't think or at least I don't want to think that he's easily forgiving him or saying him that what he did is nothing to worry about. Now that I'm thinking, I guess it would be impossible to them to talk about the issue in public, since maybe there's people attending the event that don't even know about all what happened, but due to their lenient vision on the matter and since we're not getting any hint that he is indeed getting help, it's hard to not feeling disgusting for Watsuki, so that's why I wanna listen some words of apologize and regretful, if it will not be at the event at least sometime soon.
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Kisuke525



Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:48 pm Reply with quote
Quote:


Yes, I was assuming, hard to find proofs when they're not giving any hint about how is he doing and plain getting the guy on work again. I hope it's like you are saying and Watsuki is getting help, but I'm still thinking that he came back too soon. The Hokkaido arc was starting and iirc there were about 2 chapters before all this happened, there were no volumes to sell so I don't know how "the sales wouldn't drop" getting him working soon. As much as I love the series, it's really sad and disgusting how most people choose to get the series published as soon as possible instead of getting the guy out of public eye for some time to at least give the impression that he's really getting help. For what I've read about manga artist schedule, it's not exactly as relaxed as you're saying, but nvmd, again, I hope it's as you're saying and he is indeed getting help. As for Oda, I never referred to him, 'cause I can't really blame him, I'm no one to decide how he must handle all this and I don't think or at least I don't want to think that he's easily forgiving him or saying him that what he did is nothing to worry about. Now that I'm thinking, I guess it would be impossible to them to talk about the issue in public, since maybe there's people attending the event that don't even know about all what happened, but due to their lenient vision on the matter and since we're not getting any hint that he is indeed getting help, it's hard to not feeling disgusting for Watsuki, so that's why I wanna listen some words of apologize and regretful, if it will not be at the event at least sometime soon.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that being a mangaka is easy I am very aware of how hectic it can be, but the authors do have free time just like any other person. Even the mangaka in Weekly Shonen Jump are known to have free time, because sometimes they comment about the things they have been doing lately, like playing games, seeing movies, hanging out with friends, etc. Since Watsuki is in a monthly magazine he should have even more free time than the weekly authors do because he has a lighter load. And I personally think that 6 months is enough time for him to find someone that can help him recover. It will most likely take years for him to recover if he's ever able to, so I'm not surprised he came back as soon as he did. If he didn't he might not be able to finish the series before he becomes unable to, I mean he's about 50 so he's not exactly young and with the series being monthly it's gonna progress pretty slow. Him and Shueisha probably think that he owes it to the fans to finish the series after they went and hyped up the sequel.

As for the Oda thing I wasn't referring you specifically I was just talking about other people that I have seen posting stuff like that. And honestly I don't think Watsuki or Shueisha are going to say anything else about the matter. As far as I have gathered the Japanese consider the whole thing done and over with and have no intention of prying any further and I highly doubt Shueisha want's to talk about it anymore either, because the only thing it could possibly do is hurt business. I wouldn't be surprised If they have forbidden Watsuki from speaking about the matter as well. If anything is ever said about it again it will probably be from Watsuki after he retires, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's never brought up again because that's just how Japanese culture is regarding personal matters.

The best we can do is hope Watsuki is getting or gets help, recovers, and never does anything like this again. Hoping for anything more is sadly just wishful thinking, but maybe he'll say something about it one day.[/quote]
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lossthief



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:52 pm Reply with quote
Whether Watsuki has sought out counseling/therapy/done anything to privately address his own pedophilia is ultimately conjecture, but what that ultimately means is that the people claiming it's "been settled" are presuming it was handled without proof or comment from anyone involved. If someone has personally chosen to forgive or move on from a creator they like buying CP that's ultimately their decision but it is a HELL of a bad look to tell others to "get over it" just because the man in question and his bosses brushed it under the rug to avoid addressing it.

Personally I think it's pretty lousy how many people have, seemingly in good faith, decided that financially supporting a unrepentant pedophile is something they want to do, but that's ultimately their decision. But insisting everyone else do the same and to stop bringing up the most infamous (and still relatively recent) incident of said pedophile is just...rotten.

I'll consider "forgiving" Watsuki when he donates his money to orgs fighting to protect and help the kind of children he helped victimize and starts making actual apparent measures to address the blatantly awful stuff he did. Until that happens any talk of "redemption" or "moving on" from him or his fans is going to be totally hollow.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8060
Location: IL
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:03 am Reply with quote
lossthief wrote:
Whether Watsuki has sought out counseling/therapy/done anything to privately address his own pedophilia is ultimately conjecture...

[next paragraph]

Personally I think it's pretty lousy how many people have, seemingly in good faith, decided that financially supporting a unrepentant pedophile is something they want to do, but that's ultimately their decision.

So is it conjecture, or is it false?

You seem to be claiming two things, one of which is admitting you have no knowledge to know whether or not any attempt to change via counseling/therapy has been made by Watsuki, and the other is claiming full knowledge that Watsuki has made no such attempts at changing and is 'unrepentant'.


Last edited by Megiddo on Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Meongantuk



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 230
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:05 am Reply with quote
lossthief wrote:

Personally I think it's pretty lousy how many people have, seemingly in good faith, decided that financially supporting a unrepentant pedophile is something they want to do, but that's ultimately their decision. But insisting everyone else do the same and to stop bringing up the most infamous (and still relatively recent) incident of said pedophile is just...rotten.
.


Because every single Rurouni Kenshin thread turned into "waah waah don't read a pedophile works!! You're pedo enabler if you do!!" Even when the article is actually about actor A playing A character in new ruroken live action. Most posts talks and bickering about that instead of you know, talk about the actor and how will the LA adapts the original story.

I know you guys wants him in the slammer for all eternity, everyone get your poin but It's getting REALLY tiring after DOZENS of thread about the exact same arguments. I bet you guys will post the exact same thing on the new LA review thread like a spambot.
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#836735



Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:52 am Reply with quote
Meongantuk wrote:
Because every single Rurouni Kenshin thread turned into "waah waah don't read a pedophile works!! You're pedo enabler if you do!!" Even when the article is actually about actor A playing A character in new ruroken live action. Most posts talks and bickering about that instead of you know, talk about the actor and how will the LA adapts the original story.

I know you guys wants him in the slammer for all eternity, everyone get your poin but It's getting REALLY tiring after DOZENS of thread about the exact same arguments. I bet you guys will post the exact same thing on the new LA review thread like a spambot.


Did you even read the article? It's about Eiichiro Oda interview with Watsuki for the RK anniversary exhibition. And people will still talking about the issue because it's not easy to forget or forgive what he did and there's no sign of repentance or atonement and probably (if there's any sometime) will never be publicly, so you can't simply expect that people avoid bringing the subject every time news related to him or RK are published. Or what do you want? just forget that he's a pedo and support his work no matter what? It seems that in Japan they're doing so anyways and they don't really care what we think, it could be trivial or pointless but people have the right to express their opinions.
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Nobooks



Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:53 am Reply with quote
Honestly, I blame Oda a bit. Two of the people he's openly closest to in the manga industry have 1) collected big CP collections or 2) been arrested for sleeping with child prostitutes. He even made a post that seemed like vague support of the Toriko mangaka after that, and he's helped to boost both of their public images after the fact.

The whole thing has put a real distaste in me for Oda, unfortunately.
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Jen Bigby



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:32 am Reply with quote
Nobooks wrote:
Honestly, I blame Oda a bit. Two of the people he's openly closest to in the manga industry have 1) collected big CP collections or 2) been arrested for sleeping with child prostitutes. He even made a post that seemed like vague support of the Toriko mangaka after that, and he's helped to boost both of their public images after the fact.

The whole thing has put a real distaste in me for Oda, unfortunately.


Did all the sexism, homophobia, racism, and transphobia in One Piece not tip of you off sooner?
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Nobooks



Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:56 am Reply with quote
Jen Bigby wrote:
Nobooks wrote:
Honestly, I blame Oda a bit. Two of the people he's openly closest to in the manga industry have 1) collected big CP collections or 2) been arrested for sleeping with child prostitutes. He even made a post that seemed like vague support of the Toriko mangaka after that, and he's helped to boost both of their public images after the fact.

The whole thing has put a real distaste in me for Oda, unfortunately.


Did all the sexism, homophobia, racism, and transphobia in One Piece not tip of you off sooner?


Here's the thing: I'm used to there being sexism, homophobia, racism and transphobia in shounen.

I honestly think some of the stuff that's homophobic/transphobic is well intentioned. Even some of the racist stuff. I have issues with it, but there's a difference to me between maliciously written content and content where someone is well-intentioned but doesn't know how to handle stuff.

The sexism isn't really something Oda's tried to change, but I have a harder time finding shounen mangaka who aren't kind of shitty about that than who are.

I think correlating 'has issues with lots of social issues' = 'hangs out with pedophiles and supports them' are two different things though. Even if I didn't enjoy some of what Oda wrote, there's a completely different boundary to me between poor handling of subjects and being willing to defend child predators irl. One is much more grave to me, yeah
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1985
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:23 pm Reply with quote
-SP- wrote:
He had the CP from back when it was legal, which is still disgusting


He was arrested and charged for possessing child porn made after the ban went into effect.

I don't really have much to add about Watsuki. I won't support him myself, but I'm not going to paint anyone who just wants to read RK as an endorsement of child porn. I'll personally go as far as finishing the live action movies, since I have a lot of respect for them and the picture is much broader there.

As for Oda-sensei, it's not a great look to support Watsuki, but I'm not really going to judge his reasoning without context. Not saying I endorse it, but people are complex and it's hard to blame Oda-sensei for the culture (and industry) he lives in that considers a slap on the wrist appropriate punishment. That said, I'm not quite sure what some of you are talking about in regards to sexism, racism, or transphobia. I can maaaaybe see homophobia, but that's mostly just an outdated joke that no one was truly reflecting on in Japan when that arc was written (okama-Sanji, right?), not definitively a statement about gay people. Besides, it's hard to see Ivankov as anything less than a champion of trans rights considering their pretty open views on abolishing gender expectations in their society. Racism... You'd have to enlighten me. Sexism... Aside from Oda-sensei's well-known issues with female body proportions (which he openly jokes about, for whatever that's worth), I don't see an issue. Male gaze/power fantasy is about as problematic as it gets. Otherwise, One Piece is very much a progressive story that champions equality and explicitely nods against bigotry of any kind. This is kind of its main theme.
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Kisuke525



Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Nobooks wrote:
Honestly, I blame Oda a bit. Two of the people he's openly closest to in the manga industry have 1) collected big CP collections or 2) been arrested for sleeping with child prostitutes. He even made a post that seemed like vague support of the Toriko mangaka after that, and he's helped to boost both of their public images after the fact.

The whole thing has put a real distaste in me for Oda, unfortunately.


The author of Toriko was lied to about the persons age. This was proven long ago and is the reason why he didn't go to prison, so please don't spread misinformation that can damage his and Oda's reputation.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1375
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Kisuke525 wrote:
Nobooks wrote:
Honestly, I blame Oda a bit. Two of the people he's openly closest to in the manga industry have 1) collected big CP collections or 2) been arrested for sleeping with child prostitutes. He even made a post that seemed like vague support of the Toriko mangaka after that, and he's helped to boost both of their public images after the fact.

The whole thing has put a real distaste in me for Oda, unfortunately.


The author of Toriko was lied to about the persons age. This was proven long ago and is the reason why he didn't go to prison, so please don't spread misinformation that can damage his and Oda's reputation.


That’s a huge burden of proof and the fact that there wasn’t just one but 3 underage girls in different incidents makes it very difficult to believe. So, what was the “proof” they lied? Is it documented?
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Nobooks



Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:06 pm Reply with quote
Kisuke525 wrote:
Nobooks wrote:
Honestly, I blame Oda a bit. Two of the people he's openly closest to in the manga industry have 1) collected big CP collections or 2) been arrested for sleeping with child prostitutes. He even made a post that seemed like vague support of the Toriko mangaka after that, and he's helped to boost both of their public images after the fact.

The whole thing has put a real distaste in me for Oda, unfortunately.


The author of Toriko was lied to about the persons age. This was proven long ago and is the reason why he didn't go to prison, so please don't spread misinformation that can damage his and Oda's reputation.


Where is that proven?

Also he's not even a one-time offender. He met up with at least three different underage girls.
http://old.app-jp.org/news/2002/08/8-29-3.html

Even if it was only one case, the first case is fishy as hell.
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The Not so Chosen One



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:22 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
I wish we lived in a world where people cared more about the real world people Watsuki hurt than a cartoon they watched 20 years ago.

lossthief wrote:
Personally I think it's pretty lousy how many people have, seemingly in good faith, decided that financially supporting a unrepentant pedophile is something they want to do, but that's ultimately their decision. But insisting everyone else do the same and to stop bringing up the most infamous (and still relatively recent) incident of said pedophile is just...rotten.

I mean, if you're so butthurt about people wanting to still enjoy the RK franchise, just apply Death of the Author and that's it. He can be a disgusting paedo and it's more than reasonable to condemn him, but I'm not gonna stop enjoying things derived from the manga just because some people are incapable of separating the man from the work. Also, reading the same tiring things, and being judged by holier-than-thou people on all threads RK because I for example love the manga/anime/live-action movies, is getting annoying.
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Kisuke525



Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Nobooks wrote:
Kisuke525 wrote:
Nobooks wrote:
Honestly, I blame Oda a bit. Two of the people he's openly closest to in the manga industry have 1) collected big CP collections or 2) been arrested for sleeping with child prostitutes. He even made a post that seemed like vague support of the Toriko mangaka after that, and he's helped to boost both of their public images after the fact.

The whole thing has put a real distaste in me for Oda, unfortunately.


The author of Toriko was lied to about the persons age. This was proven long ago and is the reason why he didn't go to prison, so please don't spread misinformation that can damage his and Oda's reputation.


Where is that proven?

Also he's not even a one-time offender. He met up with at least three different underage girls.
http://old.app-jp.org/news/2002/08/8-29-3.html

Even if it was only one case, the first case is fishy as hell.


I'm sorry to say that I don't have any proof. I'm taking the word of a long time Japanese friend of mine who said that the girls admitted to lying and that underage prostitutes lying about their age in Japan is very common. I trust him because I've known him my whole life, but I understand if you don't believe me.

If I came off kinda strong in my previous post I apologize. It's just that I truly believe that the author did not have ill intentions, especially since he did not end up having to serve time in prison.

I also wouldn't blame Oda for being more forgiving especially in Mitsutoshi's case since him and Oda are best friends who have known each other for a really long time. If anyone is going to be more forgiving it would be him. And honestly Oda just seems like a really good guy in general based on his interviews so he's probably just more willing to look for the good in people in general.
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