Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Tower of God


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
stilldemented



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 197
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:54 pm Reply with quote
A lot of perspective was given around Rachel this episode that I;m pretty sure the source material is still keeping secret. Episode 13 was a pleasant surprise. It paints a much clearer picture as to what drives Rachel's actions every step of the way, helping to humanize her in a way that the source material never really has. It's pretty interesting stuff, and kind of entertaining to see longtime fans respond to the new insights into her character.

Don't really have a lot left to say. Was a fun ride from beginning to end.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeverConvex



Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 927
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:06 pm Reply with quote
I liked what they tried to do with Rachel, although I am not sure how well they succeeded. I think it would have had more emotional impact if I [A] cared about potato-kun and [B] cared about potato-kun and Rachel's relationship. And maybe if [C] they had slowly developed my emotional attachment to either character over time, rather than leaving them both empty shells, and only trying to humanize one of them in a "big reveal" in the final episode.

The final episode did make Rachel a more interesting character to me than most of the rest of the cast (everyone excepting Anaak and the younger Princess of Jahad, basically), but that was mostly for lack of competition. Just not much in the way of characters with any depth, and the show's attempt to sell me on everyone getting emotionally invested in Bam fell quite flat -- felt like part of the show's fantasy conceit rather than him doing anything to draw others to him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1544
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:07 am Reply with quote
I agree so much with you both, Rachel's character just bulked up like nuts this Ep. And here's a shout out to Keven Penkin's background music and integration into the scenes, what a great job he did to heighten the emotional impact of everything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dandon223



Joined: 08 May 2019
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:08 am Reply with quote
Considering episode 13 had to adapt only 4 chapters I was suprised seeing that most of it was anime original. I do not know how to feel about it. I am certainly dissapointed that they skipped the iconic dialogue between Hwa and Rachel. The one about being afraid of night(Baam) and about meeting night(Baam) that lost his star. I believed they have translated his name or this scene to have sense for Japanese but they just skipped it. lol
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bennyl



Joined: 06 Apr 2019
Posts: 80
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:49 pm Reply with quote
The skeleton to an interesting story was there, but it was just done so poorly. They could have been much more clear that Rachel's discovery of Bam was pure happenstance, and that she only took care of him out of grudging obligation. Some take care of all strangers directive from whoever is in authority there. The more he latched on to her as a mother figure, the more she resented him for taking away her freedom to pursue her dreams. Then once given the opportunity to chase her dreams, she finds out her surrogate child/ little brother is infinitely more equiped to chase her dreams than she is, causing even more resentment. That culminates in her offing the surrogate child and taking over his place in the circle of friends. I think that 's what the story is meant to be, which could be a fascinating show, but this was done so terribly. The resentment isn't really established. The overshadowing of the former primary person in the relationship isn't really established. The only thing somewhat established is her glee at taking over bams place in the circle of friends, and that's just her doing the mad scientist from the weekly serial laugh.

Is any of this more clear in the comic or is it equally as poor at explaining the motivations of characters?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
R.Obliv



Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:50 pm Reply with quote
I guess my issue with this whole Rachel plot is that I've seen it done better elsewhere. When I was 17 and first read this series I did legitimately dislike Rachel (though never to the extent of using the language some people have), mainly because I was feeling what the author told me to feel. In retrospect, certain... questionable decisions about writing of both Baam and Rachel made her dislike of him more understandable. Furthermore, I read this when the only series I had been reading were big, uncomplicated Shounen Jump manga (not even HunterxHunter). Many series that I have since read have done betrayal of a trusted friend/mentor better, including other Webtoons such as Kubera.

If they wanted Rachel to be seriously unlikable, her and Baam should have had more agency in her betrayal. Rachel actively manipulating the situation on screen, making Baam stand out more, showing her controlling vulnerable people such as Ho and fostering his hatred of Baam and then directly playing up a false disability to force Baam into making actions that benefited her at is own risk may have made her more of a villain, instead she seems to be an unwilling puppet of grander machinations, following orders, which just makes her a victim. Her also directly approaching Baam would help circumvent the likely unintentional stalker behavior Baam displays towards someone clearly not interested. Also wanting to be liked is not really a big motivation. Perhaps a greater emphasis on wanting more than that, demanding unquestioning love and complete dedication from everyone regardless of her actions would have worked better.

To compare to the previously mentioned series Kubera, the villain there was a serial killer, an abuser, a narcissist and someone who chose power from a god in order to feel superior rather than wishing for the god to grant them revenge or return lost family members. They show violent tendencies throughout the series, but mask it with false platitudes. The character's actions mask their plans and past, and allow them to harm innocent people, manipulate those trying to do good in the world, actively sabotaging plans to save people, and ultimately risking the fate of the universe for a chance to win more power just so that they can be the strongest person. Comparatively, Rachel tried to kill one person in a world where manipulating and murdering others is the norm. Rachel just did what Khun would do, but to the main character.

I want to state that I don't hate the series, I enjoyed the episodes for what they were, but it's clear this was written early in the author's career and I think the execution could have been done much better. Kind of a mediocre anime based on an okay-to-goodish webtoon arc which had its strengths whittled away by a rushed pace.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16239
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Have to completely agree with Lauren on this one. Though we do (finally!) find out more about Rachel, most of it is an inadequately-explained mess. The piece of the puzzle that is missing here - i.e., why Rachel is so strongly-motivated - is a crippling deficiency rather than the intrigue-builder that it was probably intended to be.

I will agree that the musical score did what it could to salvage this mess, but ep 13 matches ep 1 as the weakest of the series for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Telu



Joined: 08 Sep 2019
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Did anyone seriously understand the 3 things that happened in episode 13?

1. Rachel's true nature.

2. In the tower there is no meritocracy, everything is valid if you have the strength / knowledge.

3. And about "killing" Bam, do you think Yu Han Sung only wants to help him because he is a good person?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Izanagi009



Joined: 20 Oct 2014
Posts: 434
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Have to completely agree with Lauren on this one. Though we do (finally!) find out more about Rachel, most of it is an inadequately-explained mess. The piece of the puzzle that is missing here - i.e., why Rachel is so strongly-motivated - is a crippling deficiency rather than the intrigue-builder that it was probably intended to be.

I will agree that the musical score did what it could to salvage this mess, but ep 13 matches ep 1 as the weakest of the series for me.


I certainly do agree that Rachel's motives are a bit murky and what not. I like the idea of jealousy as i have seen a bunch of people comment on how Bam/Yoru keeps getting stuff like friends and powers with little input on his end. At the same time, i feel like it's unsubstantiated because we have no idea why she wants to be a "star" so much, she will kill the person who's following her?

Honestly, the only real reason this works for me is seeing the web of intrigue around Yoru with Hansang Yu and eyepatch girl. They seem to have motives and reasons for the tower beyond just climbing it. (disclosure, i've read stuff about the webtoon on them but i won't say anymore to avoid issues).

As for the show as a whole, I call it a better RWBY. It has good animations and fights and while the lead is weak, the ensemble cast is fun to have. It does suffer the same issues as RWBY vol 1 in that i keeps its cards too close to its chest but i find that the show has enough of a fun cast to keep me engaged and I love the music and action.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2216
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:48 pm Reply with quote
Rachel ended up being about as bad a villain as bam was a mc.

It reminds me of a certain anime where the female villain is show as being the accompanying lady (to put it elegantly) of the male villain in turn (the king, the pope, the other hero, the reincarnator, etc...)M in the end I foudn it super cool that her patience finally runs out as well as other thigns aligning, so it's revelaed she was not just latching on the men of power of the arc, she was actualyl manipulating them; not onyl that, she was using fake/weak magical bodies so she was actually running at least two villain schemes at the same time, compound that, with ahving her be actualyl much stronger than the heroes-team which she kills wich a single attack once they confront her.
It even adresses the question of why she did not juust kill them at the start by explaining that she wanted to increase her level, so killing the strongetst version of the heroes helps her level up better than just killing them in the start... but the plot ruins everything by not giving you any reason or explanation at all on why she wants to level up. That' rachel's stars atm.


And I don't mean to attack tower of god, I still marathooned it once I got started and the cast of characters makes it a solid series even if bam and rachel sucks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dandon223



Joined: 08 May 2019
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:28 am Reply with quote
bennyl wrote:


Is any of this more clear in the comic or is it equally as poor at explaining the motivations of characters?


This episode was 70% anime original. In the manhwa we do not get her reasoning that fast. I believe that anime version of Rachel is totally different that the manhwa version. She wasnt struggling with herself that much. When she pushed him in the manhwa she even saidspoiler[You have to die here.]. People will be disoriented with seeing season 2 Rachel because she is totally different than anime shown her to be.

Besides manhwa readers still do not know how Rachel and Baam met.

edit* In the manhwa Headon did not said to Rachel to kill Baam , but it is still a mystery what he wanted from her.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3383
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:11 am Reply with quote
^ She also referred to Headon as "Mr. Fairy". This was cut out as well. I thought it indicated something very interesting on how the Tower was viewed by those on the outside -- at least by Rachael.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8962
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:23 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
From the details of Rachel's bodyguard, to the fact that she has somehow “misread the signs” that led to her getting stabbed by Hoh, this episode feels like it's trying to say “gotcha!” but is just exposing plot holes that I never would have paid attention to otherwise. (Why does Headon give her a bodyguard simply because she says “it's not fair?”

As I understood it, he gave her a bodyguard to help her achieve his goal of taking Bam out. Why he wants that is the real question.

But Rachel didn't misread the signs, she only thought she did when she got stabbed, until she realized that was the plan when the stabbing was "transferred" to her bodyguard ("you get one resurrection").

Gina Szanboti wrote:
The thing that most caught my attention this episode [9] was the behavior of the masked maroon-skinned guy scarfing chocolates with Rak (didn't catch his name, if it was given). He seemed to react when Rachel was stabbed, as if he felt it himself, and then shortly after literally disappeared. So I'm looking forward to seeing what his connection to her is.

Hot damn, I finally got something right. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1544
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:39 am Reply with quote
Before we all go our ways for the summer, I was struck rewatching Ep13 that I've never heard the reviewer or anyone offer any thoughts on the theme or message of ToG which I think was made clear finally. It is the struggle for true self-determination in the face of societal pressures and circumstances. Khun gave us the first clues in his declarations that he refuses to blindly and unquestioningly follow rules or completely obey authority. Now Bam states that HE will determine what the answers are and where they are found. He just agrees that they aren't where he is at the moment and so he will climb the tower. Like Lero Ro.

@Telu I think Ep13 did shed light on some things and as I understand the reveals, your answers would be

1. Rachel is an inherently good person who really cares for Bam but who has let her selfish ambition and/or obsession with the tower overtake her good nature which leads her to acquiesce to the nefarious plans of Headon and the others. She tries to assuage her conscience by rationalizing her actions as seeking equity as a justification.
2. Not sure if this is a question but I have read that one's standing in "tower society" depends on how far one has climbed so it is a complete meritocracy.
3. I doubt Yu has any intentions of helping Bam per se, but it seems there are those like him that believe Bam being an "irregular" means he has potential to undo undesirable features of the political/social system that the tower runs on. This was hinted at by Evan's question to Yuri Jahaad in Ep1. This is also possibly linked to the theme of ToG as I mentioned above, that society is a stable and self-perpetuating system that influences individual behavior to achieve certain actions beneficial to it's own continued existence. If you "just go along" with things, nothing changes and you are rewarded for keeping the status quo. That makes true self-determination difficult or impossible without conscious and continual effort.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yeehaw



Joined: 09 Sep 2018
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:54 am Reply with quote
I enjoyed rhis weird show ok and I'm interested in reading the comic... But it's so ugly...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 7 of 8

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group