Forum - View topicREVIEW: Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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I only watched the first episode since I decided to wait until the Dub drops. GITS 95 and the SAC shows are probably my favorite anime.
So far my impression was yea that opening looks like a mash-up between the original 95 movie and HBOs Westworld. In that sense it felt kind of uninspired. I wasn't impressed with the music and didn't think the subbing was the best either. It looked like they spent a little more time on the Major's CG than everybody else's but in general I found the CG unattractive and I'm not one that is against all CG. Did Netflix spend all its anime budget on licensing NGE that they couldn't throw a few more yen at this show? The story so far feels like weak tea, but once the dub drops I'll watch the whole thing because its GITS. Hopefully the story will improve and it at least matches or surpasses the mediocrity of GITS:ARISE. Its not a good sign though if Theron is giving it a C+. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18185 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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In a technical visual sense it's a marvel, maybe the best of the franchise, and I think I recall the music being among the franchise's best as well. In terms of it being good beyond that, though, you're probably a minority opinion. It's been a decade or more since I saw it, and my one lingering story impression is that it was so much philosophical masturbation that any story potential the movie had got buried. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
 Posts: 4820 |
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MrSatyre
Posts: 84 |
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After the terrible Arise series letdown, I was very pleasantly surprised with the 2045 series. While I agree that the character designs are mostly disappointing, I disagree completely with this reviewer's take on the story. For me, as much as I enjoyed the original two SAC series, their biggest flaw was attempting to explore truly esoteric and nebulous ideas and philosophical constructions. There was much too much techno-babble that made following the various story arcs truly exhausting. 2045, on the other hand, has a much more precisely drawn plot, much more accessible dialog, and a much better flow. Character development is more in keeping with the original characters, especially where Togusa is concerned, whose original family seemed like an unnecessary boat anchor that serves no real purpose. Absolved of that, he's more mature and stronger.
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Punpun's ghost
 Posts: 73 Location: Wales |
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Have watched the first two episodes so far, and while I thought the second was a noticeable improvement on the first (which really made me cringe), I haven't rushed back to watch more. It's a shame, because I love SAC, not to mention Eden of the East and Moribito. I have to say, the animation is a real killer for me. It's not just the dated plastic aesthetic; it's those weird black lines that appear and then disappear on the characters' faces - one shot on, one shot off - it's like they didn't have the faith in the CG to pull it off, so hacked in a few drawn lines just to remind us where a brow or cheekbone was supposed be. For an animator who has always been so brilliant with his visuals, even when his plotting and dialogue has sometimes been a bit clunky, I've found it disappointing.
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whsdd123
Posts: 1 |
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Comparing subsequent stories, where the creators are trying to explore more of the Ghost world, to the original movie will often bring disappointment because you set the bar too high in your mind. People often cannot appreciate any new creation such as the ARISE series which was tastefully done to faithfully depict a prequel. Such paucity of openness negatively impacts your own viewing pleasure, which is fine as long as you keep it to yourself. Your inability to adapt to a different visual style does not contribute anything to the assessment of the quality of the actual anime.
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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I can't speak for anyone else of course, but for me the aesthetics--the visuals and the music--are the main appeal to GitS. The story isn't anything special--not that it's bad, but it seems like garden variety cyberpunk genre fiction. What's compelling about GitS are the characters, the visuals, and the music (at least when we got Kenji Kawaii or Yoko Kanno). When the visuals are so important and you change them--for the worse as most of us seem to agree--it's hardly surprising that some fans won't be onboard with that. I understand that the story and the visuals aren't the same, and that I shouldn't judge the story based on the art. But the thing is that I'm not interested in GitS because of the story. I'm interested in the art.
I view the philosophical quotes in Innocence the exact same way I view the random techspeak in SAC, or the constant references to fictitious countries and government officials in the 1995 film: window dressing. I do agree that the story wasn't anything special....but then again, the story wasn't the point. Sometimes it's about the destination but other times it's about the journey. |
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jdnation
Posts: 1997 |
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So I saw the first episode.
I love both of Oshii's films, as well as S.A.C., and I also dug ARISE, so I'm generally okay with every incarnation of GITS, including the original manga. The first ep of the Netflix series certainly doesn't make the best impression, though I'm willing to see more, and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, but it's still a very mixed bag. For 1, the CG visuals are definitely not great. There are some moments when it actually looks good and it's usually when they take full advantage of the CG to do some neat things, like the group sitting together arguing in VR, and a few other inspired shots, but everything else screams budget-CG, whereas I've always associated GITS with great animation. Oshii's flms are beautiful and push the envelope for 2D animation. SAC was also a quality show, and ARISE was also no slouch. The Netflix show shows noticeable drawbacks by being full CG. Most notably in the rigging of the characters and other environmental things where atmosphere is concerned. Illya's designs are great, but their transition to CG is lacking. For example where hair is concerned, with Motoko driving that fast in an open jeep her hair should be flapping a lot more in the wind, but there's just a pathetic little flap. Batou's hair is also just stiff. Direction decisions also come off as uninspired. The show opens with the jeep stopping, and Motoko getting out to drink beer. But why? Because she was waiting for Batou's truck to show up on the other road? But not that much time had passed, and it's not like they don't have GPS in their brains or something to synch up while moving. So why'd she stop? Answer: So she can get out of the car, pose for the camera and the audience can see what the main character of the show looks like. That's why. Very inorganic... Also the OP and music isn't that great. Serviceable I guess, but Kanno and Kawai will be missed. The ED isn't bad though, helped by more of Ilya's art. I won't comment on the story yet as the first episode is largely just an intro. But the visuals are the main drawback. Not completely bad to make you not want to watch it, but it's a disappointment for what I consider a prestige franchise known for pushing the visual envelope. And I'll take the opportunity here to again request that Episode 5 of ARISE please release on blu-ray, so those of us who purchased it before the alternative architecture release can possess it because it links the episodes to the movie. |
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The Scream Man
 Posts: 153 Location: Sydney, Australia |
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Well the phrase 'Philosophy masturbation' is a phrase Ill never get out of my head entirely, so cheers for that... Overall your article sums up where I was with this almost entirely. In fact I have never read a review on anything that touched on things that matched my feelings so exactly. I think I liked the music a little more than you did (Except the awful opener that felt like it should have been on a different show) and I thought the returning Japanese voice cast was a bigger plus than you mentioned (And i can't wait for the dub) but overall we're on the same page. And who knows? Maybe in part 2 Bouma will get more than 2 lines and Paz will actually get one... |
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dragon695
 Posts: 1377 Location: Clemson, SC |
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What disappoints me more than the use of CG is the fact that studio Orange had done the CG for GitS previously. Why couldn’t they have done so here? The CG here just is not good. The story is nowhere near the quality needed to overcome it.
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thenewtypetheory
Posts: 2 |
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This wasn't as strong as the strongest entry but it was a significantly better showing than Arise. The story was always interesting and built upon what we knew about the SAC continuity (the best one). I'd have rated it 8/10
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The Scream Man
Posts: 153 Location: Sydney, Australia |
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WHile i agree that the SAC continuity is the best one, this was nowhere NEAR as good as Arise. |
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Angel'sArcanum
 Posts: 303 Location: Toronto, Ontario |
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Count me in for the "Innocence is good" camp. I still need to actually take in more of GitS (manga or anime) but as far as Oshii's 2 films go, I much prefer Innocence to the original which I don't really care for.
The original GitS film just feels kind of thin to me, mostly relying on Oshii just dropping one big philosophical monologue that's supposed to reel in and contextualize everything else in the film, essentially doing all the heavy-lifting, and with that out of the equation it's just a kind of boring cyberpunk thriller light on action or real gravitas. That seems to be a recurring thing for some of Oshii's films, like in The Sky Crawlers and Patlabor 2, but as boring and kind of esoteric as Sky Crawlers was as an anti-otaku screed of sorts iirc, sort of preaching to the choir anyways, I was still a bit more intrigued with it, and Patlabor 2 felt a bit more precise and "human" as it were, and the political context for it was kind of interesting. Innocence I find fascinating though because it feels like Oshii being self-deprecating in a way, where characters seem to question why they relay all these random philosophies and quotes like soundboards, feels more self-aware and interrogative, and having seen Sans Soleil by Chris Marker (who I hear was an influence for Oshii), the parade scene in Innocence feels strikingly similar to scenes in Marker's film, about being an outsider looking in to different cultures, concepts divorced from meaning, things becoming empty perpetuated rituals beyond understanding, and trying to find that missing link, and "meaning" again in a way, especially how the movie is framed in a post-Motoko (as post-God) world. Everything doesn't feel like fluff around one central idea, some of the interplay in Innocence with characters shooting off philosophy and thinking about it after the fact feels like it invites the audience to try and understand the values they have and why they gravitate to those certain beliefs based on their mannerisms and actions and are they simply the sum of ideas created and relayed by others or not, etc. Innocence is actively engaging to me and one of Oshii's best in my mind, though I know I'm in the minority for that one, but the original does nothing for me. FWIW though, I hear most people would say the 'Ghost Tears' section of Arise to probably be the worst Ghost in the Shell thing, though I still need to watch all of Arise myself. |
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