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Zalis116
Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6867
Location: Kazune City
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 Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:49 pm
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| Megiddo wrote: | | Well, knowing that there are no royalties and the production companies can't even get viewer metrics of their work for bartering future productions makes it so much easier to not worry about not subscribing to all these various streaming services. |
Why should Netflix's practices affect the perception of other streaming services?
| Quote: | | The reason for this is because under Netflix's licensing deals, the streaming rights are bought outright, so that the production company does not receive royalties no matter how many views the anime gets. |
Especially when we know that at least one other major service does things differently:
| Quote: | | While most Crunchyroll titles do pay "back-end" royalties based on how many people watch, the vast majority of the money they, or any other overseas distributor, contributes to the production is in the advance payment for the rights, also known as a "minimum guarantee." These can run from US$30,000 all the way up to US$200,000 PER EPISODE. Crunchyroll then builds in additional payments based on viewership, on top of that. Since production costs generally hover around US$275,000 per episode, this actually has the potential to outright pay for an entire production. |
| AtoMan wrote: | | What we do know, for a fact, is that the piracy numbers of the shows that Netflix is essentially taking hostage skyrocketed to the levels unseen since the simulcast model was adopted. |
From-scratch fansub production for those shows is up, but I don't know that the overall piracy numbers are. I took a look at Spring '19's Carole and Tuesday, and compared its numbers with those of We Never Learn and Helpful Fox Senko-san -- the two shows from that season whose MAL user numbers were closest to Carole & Tuesday's. These are their current view numbers on the Flagship Bootleg Streaming Site:
We Never Learn: 3,599,935 [MAL: 184,968]
Helpful Fox Senko-san: 2,017,722 [MAL: 169,638]
Carole & Tuesday: 1,382,190 [MAL: 172,576]
The torrent download numbers tell a similar story -- C&T's are considerably below the other two, despite being roughly as popular. Maybe the irregular release schedule and different group name on the C&T files threw people off.
Piracy numbers haven't really gone down since the pre-simulcast era, either. I remember it being a Big Deal when Dattebayo's Naruto Shippuuden 001 hit 1 million torrent downloads on [this is a bittorrent website]. Now even below-average shows can easily blow past those numbers on just one illegal streaming site.
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xxmsxx
Joined: 06 Sep 2017
Posts: 564
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:01 am
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Not surprised, but still disappointed to see that this company is even less transparent than some of the smaller anime streaming companies. This further indicates that the overseas audience just does not amount to anything remotely valuable in Netflix's eyes.
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FukuchiChiisaia
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:42 pm
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| Ushio wrote: | | Honestly I find the argument that Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba becoming a hit couldn't happen if it streamed to be bullshit. |
They're talking about Japanese audience. TV release still playing a huge part in anime promotion. Kimetsu no Yaiba not applied for this context, but most of the mature anime aired on TV are basically paid advertisement.
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Agent355
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:45 am
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| Ushio wrote: |
| Agent355 wrote: | | I hate the binge model personally (nice to see other binge model haters here! Validation!) and I never liked Netflix not releasing their viewership numbers because I imagined it was frustrating for creators to never truly know how well their shows did. But I didn’t understand quite *why* they refuse to release viewership numbers—I assumed that they were just trying to protect reputations of shows that don’t perform as well as anticipated. The motive of not allowing studios/content creators to negotiate is far more nefarious. I guess business ethics hasn’t caught up with the streaming model, and we can only hope that some disgruntled employees release Netflix’s ratings to spite them and force their hand (or some sort of entertainment business legal regulation, but I think the former is more likely). |
No company releases viewership numbers they get leaked by third parties who are used because they need an impartial company when selling to there actual customer advertisers.
Netflix doesn't deal with advertisers so no need to use a third party to sell viewership figures. Not that viewership figures are worth much it's breaking down that viewership figure into various demographic groups.
Netflix also does share viewership figures with those they want to continue working with.
So if you sell a show to Netflix and they aren't interested in sharing their viewership figures, well then it did so badly they don't care about working with you anymore.
The majority of all TV/streaming shows flop it's just the way it is and it has nothing to do with quality. |
It may be true that third party companies leak viewership numbers generally, but I don’t think your second statement is true—I’ve never heard of Netflix releasing viewership numbers to anyone, including their most popular creative collaborators. If you’ve seen proof of it, please share. It’d be interesting to see who they *do* share that information with (I don’t think the vague top ten lists count, though—not enough information to be useful).
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Kadmos1
Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13555
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:11 am
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| strawberry-kun wrote: | | I wish Netflix just never got involved with anime beyond putting other companies shows on the platform. I don’t like their binge watching nonsense and prefer simulcasts, and I hate that most of their shows don’t get physical releases. I don’t think I’m ever getting Blu Rays for Violet Evergarden and/or Kakegurui. That makes me sad. |
Let's not forget the "Netflix Original" label they also like to use. If it is an original IP that has each of the following by Netflix or a Netflxi subsidiary, I consider a true "Netflix Original" written, directed, produced, and released.
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