Forum - View topicThe 3DCG in Dorohedoro: Yay or Nay?
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Heishi
 Posts: 1319 |
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Noi is the only reason I would watch this show.
The only anime that gets it right with the 3D for me is Karas. That one is just amazing. |
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Covnam
 Posts: 3650 |
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I haven't seen that myself, so I can't comment on it, but if you want to see some great use of 3D and haven't seen Land of the Lustrous I recommend checking it out. I imagine the gemstones would have been extremely hard to animate the same way using more traditional means. |
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Daniel Carrilho
Posts: 15 |
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Couldn't disagree more, it looks very good in motion.
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trilaan
 Posts: 1054 Location: Texas |
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Yeah, if the story and overall design weren't something I liked so much I wouldn't watch it with this animation.
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ShinuZERO
Posts: 53 |
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Damn, couldn't have said it better myself. The knee-jerk hate for CG among anime fans is so tiresome and most definitely stems from ignorance. CG isn't perfect but neither is traditional animation. If Berserk 2016 was traditionally animated it wouldn't automatically be perfect. So many factors determine how a series will turn out; not just the format. Just like there are terrible CG anime, there are terrible 2D shows as well. All that said, I think Dorohedoro and Beastars are some of the best looking CG anime we've gotten to date and it's cool to see the medium evolve and get better. Traditional animation is never going away. As long as there are animators out there with the passion it will forge onward. But thanks to 3DCG technology we're able to get adaptations of stuff that wouldn't feasibly be done in the modern age and for that I'm thankful. Berserk 2016 was made on a shoestring budget and it shows but, even with how terrible it looked or how it barreled through the source material, it was still a blast to finally see an adaptation past the Golden Age Arc. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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@ Skerlly Fc
I'm not in tune nor do I keep up with the "community" whoever they are, nor do I watch weekly shows, as I tend to marathon, nor am I on social media (as in, never registered). Yet with my own damn eyes I can see that the majority of the way 3D CG is implemented in anime just plain sucks especially for character animation. Dorohedoro has these problems too with movement (or lack thereof). I know the specific reasons why and even the solutions, which have already been done, but I don't want to get into a thesis here. Some studios or specific anime titles handle it well, most don't. So it ain't just circle jerking. Regarding mainstream US animation, likewise, the so called advancement in sakuga animation just isn't anywhere up to Japan's level. I saw your roundtable video and it's the same pattern--smooth framerate (good) and abundant squash and stretch (both good and bad) but still, very, very simplistic designs with simplistic cinematography. In fact the high amount of in between frames is accomplished precisely because each frame is less complicated to animate and there's a lot of 2D vector interpolation work done now in software. It's a cost-benefit issue and in addition to stylistic training. |
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AmpersandsUnited
Posts: 633 |
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I'm sure people said the same thing about Vinland Saga, or JoJo's Bizarre Adventures, two manga with highly detailed art, and those adaptions turned out just fine. In the case of JoJo's, we've seen what it would look like at CG with the first few openings, and I can safely say the show would be much worse off if it was animated like that. You say it requires a competent studio to turn series into 2D, but we've seen plenty of bad CG adaptions. You just named Berserk, after all. I think most people would prefer the old 90s series over the modern iteration.
This sounds like you're trying to start a cartoon VS anime debate which is entirely off topic. All I'll say is western animation is probably the prime example of why anime fans have such a low opinion of CG. People don't want to see traditional animation being entirely replaced with CG like what happened with animated films and a lot of series in America where most are either Flash/Toon Boom or CG. Avatar the Last Airbender dropped on Netflix a week or so ago, and I've seen a lot of resurgence in cartoon fans lamenting the days of shows like that, both in animation and in writing compared to modern shows, and wondering why no other show tried to emulate it. It's not just the "anime fans" who are saying that kind of stuff. I was never really a fan of Avatar myself, but I can see where they're coming from just from my own observation of what shows I've seen being offered from modern networks. |
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yeehaw
 Posts: 423 |
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Nois bent elbows look like Woodys from toy story.
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Lapin noir
Posts: 127 Location: United Kingdom |
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Because this touches on something so important to me, and I’ve read the book on it, I’m going to have to vehemently disagree on this all-too-common assumption. Intentionally limited animation goes back to a pre-TV era, being first extensively seen in the Chuck Jones–directed and Robert Cannon–animated “The Dover Boys” (1942), refined in the industrial films that Cannon, John Hubley and others worked on at UPA over the war years and emerging fully-formed in “Gerald McBoing-Boing” (1950) and “Rooty Toot Toot” (1951). It was created to make those films appear distinctive, not to save money – they actually took a lot more money and time to make than most cartoons in the high-frame-rate, bladder-of-water style that was standard then because of the experimentation in every scene, rather than just going ahead and doing things the established way. It was after those experimental, expensive films had come up with new ways of depicting movement that the principles they developed were (mis)used in TV productions as a way of making animation cheaper and quicker. In Japan, Yoji KURI used limited animation as a way to make films on his own, Ryōhei YANAGIHARA to make his ads distinctive and stylish, and Mushi Pro used it to do things full animation of any budget never could in such films as “Tales of a Street Corner”, at around the same time that Mushi Pro and Toei’s TV divisions were using it more pragmatically to make all-cartoon half-hour series on a TV budget and time frame. From there, the toolkit did go on to be developed into what we know as anime through Japanese TV productions, a major turning point being Yasuo ŌTSUKA’s tenure as supervising animator of the first Lupin the 3rd TV series, in which he pioneered the idea of allocating the majority of the budget, frames and production time to particular set pieces instead of them being spread out evenly throughout an episode. This resulted in the way that frame rates in anime vary so much within an episode or film, giving a different feel to different parts of the narrative and making the conclusion have a big impact in a way that didn’t happen in anime before then or Western cartoons at the time. But the original principle of limited animation didn’t originate in Japan, and not due to the constraints of TV series, but more to industrial and advertising films wanting something new and eye-catching and giving staff the budget and creative freedom to achieve that. |
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z7Pro
Posts: 1 |
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Sorry but this is a lame article, the CGI is literally GREAT, you just reduced all the work of this near perfect adaptation by simply 2 points; camera being limited, that is not a bad thing, also it's not easy to do in such material as the average anime so your comparison makes no sense at all in terms of scale, and the CGI not moving makes no sense as well, you want the character to dance and do random stuff they're not meant to? The CGI had quite expressive moments especially ep 3 and 12. You could resume your article in just some words, it feels like people will never give CGI anime credit and it's sad because this article shows that literally ignoring any other aspects to the point of saying nonsensical things as "has no visual ambition" while the anime is directed by one of the most competent and ambitious guy in industry who literally solo storyboard everything, one of the best if not the best art director in the industry etc etc, all that to be reduced by 2 points that doesn't overcome all the greatness this adaptation had. Dorohedoro was genially produced, incredible adaptation but sadly underrated because of this CGI agenda. No personal offense, just that this article is not a real article with great points and only brings the negative out of everything.
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