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REVIEW: Love Me for Who I Am Volume 1


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FireChick
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:41 pm Reply with quote
The website you linked is locked behind a paywall.
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Ashley Hakker



Joined: 31 Aug 2016
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:44 pm Reply with quote
FireChick wrote:
The website you linked is locked behind a paywall.


I am aware. It's Konayama's Pixiv Fanbox. I'm not about to bootleg it, it'd be kinda super disrespectful. It's only 200 Yen though.
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 705
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:45 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Works that are only over implicitly queer receive heaps of praise for being progressive (praise that's often undue)


This does bring up something I was thinking. Would this review have been as harsh if it was about a group of cis-boys that enjoyed working in an otokonoko cafe? Maybe it would have, but I also feel the series might have been given a lot more leeway to be a light drama.

The work that only "implies" can be perfect rep in your head. "It's not LGBT/NB, but you could totally read the character that way! If this work only took one step, I just know it would be amazing rep!" VS you know, the work that's actually attempting to give a voice to things other series only feel comfortable implying.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:05 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
I wouldn't word it quite so strongly as the person whose post just got deleted (can't remember their name, sorry!), at least not on a public forum, but I do think the mindset of "this work of fiction doesn't directly relate to my own specific and personal experiences, so I should assume malicious intent from a cis fetishist" is only damaging to the lgbt community

Works that are only ever implicitly queer receive heaps of praise for being progressive (praise that's often undue) but when we have a work that is explicitly about queer characters and Japanese queer culture, by an author that went out of their way to write about such a topic regardless of their experience with the subject because they showed real interest in it, and that gets trashed on? I would think that sends a bad message but to each their own


Why would that surprise you? If you were aware of the debate over appropriation that's been going on in the West for quite some time now, you would expect that a creator who has ZERO personal experience with this kind of topic and got their research from some Google searches would come in for a heavy dose of eye-rolling. I'm a cisgender male and I have exactly ZERO interest in reading about this topic from somebody who has not lived it. Those days should be over.
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Ashley Hakker



Joined: 31 Aug 2016
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:27 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
I wouldn't word it quite so strongly as the person whose post just got deleted (can't remember their name, sorry!), at least not on a public forum, but I do think the mindset of "this work of fiction doesn't directly relate to my own specific and personal experiences, so I should assume malicious intent from a cis fetishist" is only damaging to the lgbt community

Works that are only ever implicitly queer receive heaps of praise for being progressive (praise that's often undue) but when we have a work that is explicitly about queer characters and Japanese queer culture, by an author that went out of their way to write about such a topic regardless of their experience with the subject because they showed real interest in it, and that gets trashed on? I would think that sends a bad message but to each their own


Why would that surprise you? If you were aware of the debate over appropriation that's been going on in the West for quite some time now, you would expect that a creator who has ZERO personal experience with this kind of topic and got their research from some Google searches would come in for a heavy dose of eye-rolling. I'm a cisgender male and I have exactly ZERO interest in reading about this topic from somebody who has not lived it. Those days should be over.


As the queer person who has spent the last 18 months or so boosting this Manga, pulling as much attention as I could to it in hopes it would be licensed, boosting it more and getting into contact with Seven Seas once it was licensed, even running a giveaway contest for the manga for the last month... I just wanted to say that I am so glad that you, a cisgender male, are here to draw the line in the sand. To say that manga like this, the first manga I've ever seen Tokyo Rainbow Pride be represented, needs to end. That 'It's days should be over'. Thank you for your bravery.

Now I hope we can return soon to the status quo of queer rep in anime and manga: Protracted arguments about weather or not Love Live is a lesbian subtext because some characters made eye contact once.




This part here? Where they are asked to sign a petition for same sex marriage while at pride? That's also bad. We def need to put a stop to these heinous representations of lobbying for same sex marriage in Japan.

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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:52 pm Reply with quote
Please dial it back a notch or two, Ashley. I fully understand that this is a passionate issue for you, but you'll do nothing but start an exchange of nastiness if you keep biting people's heads off over this.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, let's have more stories about black people from white creators! Let's have more stories about the Idigenous experience from people who have never lived one second of that life. Let's have more stories about LGBTQ+ people by cisgenders who did that good ole Google research! Woo-hoo! I mean, we've only had several hundred years of majority culture creators just doing whatever they want with stories that aren't theirs, thus crowding out those who could actually bring some authenticity, so why stop now?

I'm not telling any LGBTQ+ person how to feel about this series. If you've read it and dug it, then fine. But don't be hating on people who are just tired of majority culture creators wading into waters they haven't lived. You can like the result, but I'm so, so, so, so tired of it.
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Ashley Hakker



Joined: 31 Aug 2016
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:25 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Yeah, let's have more stories about black people from white creators! Let's have more stories about the Idigenous experience from people who have never lived one second of that life. Let's have more stories about LGBTQ+ people by cisgenders who did that good ole Google research! Woo-hoo! I mean, we've only had several hundred years of majority culture creators just doing whatever they want with stories that aren't theirs, thus crowding out those who could actually bring some authenticity, so why stop now?

I'm not telling any LGBTQ+ person how to feel about this series. If you've read it and dug it, then fine. But don't be hating on people who are just tired of majority culture creators wading into waters they haven't lived. You can like the result, but I'm so, so, so, so tired of it.


Show me any other manga where Tokyo Rainbow Pride has appeared.

I'll sit here and wait.

Blood- wrote:
Let's have more stories about LGBTQ+ people by cisgenders who did that good ole Google research!


My god, I literally linked to a blog of the author's experiences attending pride. Spare me the 'Creator not queer enough so it's bad' crap.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:31 pm Reply with quote
Hey, I've been to Pride parades, too. Toronto has one of the biggest in the world. I do not consider that to be any kind of significant "research." But I kind of see what's going on here. I guess maybe if you are a LGBTQ+ person and you are comparing this title to what manga and anime has done with in this territory in the past, maybe it comes across better in that light?

Anyway, there's little point carrying on this discussion for me. I think I've made my perspective clear.
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ANN_Lynzee
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Joined: 02 May 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:58 pm Reply with quote
Ashley Hakker, Key already warned you. I think you should probably go cool off before you get put on moderation.
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Samiamiam



Joined: 31 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:20 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Yeah, let's have more stories about black people from white creators! Let's have more stories about the Idigenous experience from people who have never lived one second of that life. Let's have more stories about LGBTQ+ people by cisgenders who did that good ole Google research! Woo-hoo! I mean, we've only had several hundred years of majority culture creators just doing whatever they want with stories that aren't theirs, thus crowding out those who could actually bring some authenticity, so why stop now?

I'm not telling any LGBTQ+ person how to feel about this series. If you've read it and dug it, then fine. But don't be hating on people who are just tired of majority culture creators wading into waters they haven't lived. You can like the result, but I'm so, so, so, so tired of it.


Some people like to judge media based on their actual contents.

On a more serious note, I know you mean well but this only read #OwnVoices stuff really really doesn't work when talking about LGBT media because it ends up with people getting outed. (Like several actors have been forced out of the closet because of outrage at them playing gay characters). Again, I know you mean well, but its easy to miss the harm you cause when you don't have to think about what it means to be in the closet or what you're actually asking when you demand mangaka be out in order to publish manga about themselves.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
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Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:28 pm Reply with quote
This review was super harsh over a really sweet comic, mainly because it doesn't seem to live up to the reviewer's own personal experiences. And while not liking it is valid, I hope we eventually see more reviews of Love Me for Who I Am from other perspectives.

We can have lighthearted fluff stories. Not everything needs to be a serious non-fiction, auto-biography like a Kabi Nagata manga.
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:49 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Yeah, let's have more stories about black people from white creators! Let's have more stories about the Idigenous experience from people who have never lived one second of that life. Let's have more stories about LGBTQ+ people by cisgenders who did that good ole Google research!


I mean... sure, why not? I can think of a few examples of situations you listed with some really popular, well regarded situations. Black Panther and Golden Kamuy, for example. I think it's a bit close minded to think someone can't write a story about something they're not self-inserting as. Do you hold that line of thinking to other areas as well? Are Hiromu Arakawa and Kazue Kato out of line for writing shounen stories starring male characters since they're women? What about men writing shoujo manga, or female-led series? I'm willing to bet most people on this forum are not Japanese, and yet we're enjoying a medium made by Japanese people, so that already should show topics and writing can cross barriers.

I would have to agree with littlegreenwolf that it sounds like the reviewer didn't like it simply because their own life experiences weren't being reflected in it. To some people, that is a big deal, but it's not a fault or requirement for a series, it just means it's for other people and audiences and the reviewer would prefer another title that does focus on it. There's no such thing as a wrong or right way to write a story or topic, just different ways. I can see why some people may not like this series and I can see why others would.
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RaspberryShelbert



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:57 pm Reply with quote
Breaking my lurking streak to respond to this.

The problem with the manga is not that it doesn't reflect any one person's specific experience of nonbinary gender. That's not a thing any single work can do-nonbinary experiences defy universality in a way where you legitimately could write a nonbinary protagonist's relationship to their gender in a lot of ways and still be accurate to somebody's experience-and speaking as a nonbinary person, I like it when stories depict characters with experiences outside the binary that are completely different from my own.

The problem with Mogumo is that there is basically nothing to the manga's portrayal of their gender. Literally nothing. They say "I'm not a boy or a girl" and the other characters, who are all some degree of queer and should at least be able to emphasize a little with this character's plight, are all like whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and then the cis boy says they don't get it but they're valid he guesses and then Mogumo maybe wants to bang him. Like, maybe wants to bang him within three pages of the second chapter. I'm sorry but I don't think the manga is particularly subtle about where it's priorities lie.

How does Mogumo feel about being perceived as a woman, outside of "they dont' like it'? Why don't they like it? How does it compare to being perceived as a man? How do they feel about femininty? How do they feel about masculinity? What is their relationship with their body? Do they have hobbies or interests outside of the maid cafe and the main boy's dick? How do they think those hobbies reflect on their gender?

I'm not saying the manga needs to play twenty questions with the reader about Mogumo, but I have genuinely no sense of their internality, of the relationship they have with their gender. If I was a cis person reading this, I don't imagine I would take much away from the experience other than "I guess some people aren't girls or boys and if you say they have to be girls or boys they cry". It's shallow and patronizing and fetishy and you can like it for being soft and cute and whatever else but it's still kinda gross and it still doesn't do the thing that it was marketed to do, which is represent the perspective of a nonbinary person.
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Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 262
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:05 am Reply with quote
RaspberryShelbert wrote:
It's shallow and patronizing and fetishy and you can like it for being soft and cute and whatever else but it's still kinda gross and it still doesn't do the thing that it was marketed to do, which is represent the perspective of a nonbinary person.


Just curious but who marketed this series as "nonbinary representation"? The mangaka or Seven Sea's localized marketing team? Seven Seas is pretty iffy at labeling things as "LGBT+" when it's aimed at a straight audience to oogle. The mangaka of this series also draws R-18 artwork about cross-dressing and similar subjects so that may be indicative of the series original intentions and audience: a cute/fetishy series with a LGBT cafe theme. Maybe the series was never meant to be a serious look on the topics.
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