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Agent355 wrote:

Two quick points before I get into Subaru/Emilia:
1. How much did Subaru tell Otto about his situation last week? It almost seemed like Subaru told Otto about Return by Death, but can he do that?

2. I liked Otto’s backstory but he kinda deserved a consequence for humiliating a girl like that! Don’t sl*tshame, Otto! (especially since it was a jealous guy who hurt him, not her directly)

1) I believe in the novels, the exposition briefly mentions something like "Of course he couldn't tell Otto everything".

2) She was hiding relationships and manipulating the dudes, so technically it was calling out a bluff. Otto is too sincere for his own good. Lol

stilldemented wrote:

While I concur that this moment shares a few things in common with the Rem/Subaru talk, I think it has way more in common with the talk between Subaru and his dad. Emilia is pulling all the same tactics Subaru used to use in order to get his parents to hate him. It seems to me that Subaru knew exactly what she was doing and kinda knew how to shut it down.

This is very close to how I interpreted it reading the novel. Eliquently put!

Iron Maw wrote:

There are still unresolved issues such as why Subaru broke his promise which needs to be addressed for things to truly move forward. . .

Looks like the end of episode 41 resolves that quite succinctly. Cool

There's a lot more that could be said about episode 41, but I think I'll wait until the review goes up to comment further.

Huh, Garfield turning 180º feels even weirder than when Rem did it, it was quite wild to see this kind of guy going from permanently angry to this cheerful. It was also surprising to see that his mysterious past was actually something so simple lol

BTW weren't Authorities supposed to manifest differently from person to person? Because Subaru's was pretty much the same as Petelgeuse, even if weaker. Is this supposed to inform even more of how similar the two are? Oh, and when something "broke" inside Subaru when he used shamak again, was that his Od or the "seal" on his Authority? Was the latter intentional?

And well, I guess in the end Emilia isn't Satella but her daughter... maybe. Writing that I remembered that the silver-haired purple-eyed half-elf that appeared in the same flashback reel as young Petelgeuse is Emilia's mother figure but not her actual biological mother, unless I understood something wrong. So I guess in the end by "witch's daughter" Echidna could mean the surrogate mother, Satella, both or neither... Although if Satella IS Emilia's mother, that would make her obsession over Subaru kind of creepy.

Also! Nice surprise to see that Puck is still around.
Also also, it once again becomes hard to decide who is best girl spoiler[Ram or Patrasche?]

Yuvelir wrote:

Also also, it once again becomes hard to decide who is best girl spoiler[Ram or Patrasche?]

No, the better question is this: spoiler[Is Patrasche now officially part of Subaru's harem?]

Key wrote:

Yuvelir wrote:

Also also, it once again becomes hard to decide who is best girl spoiler[Ram or Patrasche?]

No, the better question is this: spoiler[Is Patrasche now officially part of Subaru's harem?]

I thought the answer to that was a clear "yes".

Yuvelir wrote:

I thought the answer to that was a clear "yes".

According to a series of "best girl" votes in a couple of seiyuu broadcasts, Ram, Rem, Emilia, and Puck's voice actresses all agreed that Patrasche (by virtue of staff adding her to the list of "girls in Subaru's life") is best girl. So that's a unanimous "yes" to that. And I agree.

I was kind've underwhelmed by Ep 41. Somethin' about Garfiel's change of heart just felt like it lacked verisimilitude to me.

Was neat/weird/disconcerting seeing the stomach/heart-shadow punch, though, and I really appreciated Emilia's end scene.

ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:

I don't know how the patently absurd headcanon that Subaru is some kind of incel is still around, but can we dismiss that already? And while we're at it, can we also not act like the character journey Subaru has undergone up to this point just...didn't happen?

Or that Rem is a perfect angel who has never had a solitary selfish thought in her life? Seriously, this idealization of hers is probably just as bad as Subaru's idealization of Emilia in S1.

Subaru has already accepted that Puck will probably always occupy a bigger space in Emilia's heart, and that hasn't changed his feelings for her at all. And when Emilia "confessed" to him while in her mindbroken state, Subaru felt no joy or satisfaction from that, only concern and worry for her well-being.

Yes, Subaru would like Emilia to love him back, if possible. Yes, he's a little selfish, but dammit, so is very kid in love. No, his confession was certainly not the most graceful confession ever, it was messy, it was clumsy, which is partly why it wasn getting through her. The kiss was to convey what words couldn't.

He also gave her quite a bit of time to decide whether to accept or not. She may not be in an entirely positive headspace at the moment, but that doesn't mean she's lost the ability to think for herself. She still has her autonomy.

Nobody said Subaru is an incel. This is quite a heavy word to use. Subaru is a kid and he has his flaws and the series never hid that, rather it really stresses it out. Subaru's flaws also include him being selfish, immature and unable to handle most of his relationships, and the point of the series is how he's learning to overcome those shortcomings. He was never a bad kid. He has made progress, but he is not fully there, he still has a lot of way to go, and that became more apparent in this confession scene.

About Emilia, people tend to forget that she is all alone with Puck not around. Now she is all alone with a bunch of painful memories coming back at her and the responsibility of other people's well beings hanging onto her as well. And she's only a teenager. It's not a question of autonomy, she simply didn't have the choice at that certain point to refuse Subaru whatever he was asking of her. It's a lucky thing that she likes Subaru (maybe not as much as he likes her, but she definitely feels positive about him) or that scene would have been even more problematic.

Or, it could be that Re Zero as a series has very steep highs and lows in its terms of writing. During the last episode and the Garfiel fight, when the black punch came out of Subaru's stomach all I could think about was "yeet".

Kirki wrote:

Or, it could be that Re Zero as a series has very steep highs and lows in its terms of writing.

Or... it's all highs. Whatever you think of Subaru, that's on the character, not Tappei's writing. There's nothing "problematic" about that scene if your issue is only that Emilia comes off as vulnerable and Subaru as inconsiderate of her feelings. The characters are who they are, and that doesn't speak to the "lowness" of the series' writing.

Quote:

During the last episode and the Garfiel fight, when the black punch came out of Subaru's stomach all I could think about was "yeet".

Which means...?

Yuvelir wrote:

Huh, Garfield turning 180º feels even weirder than when Rem did it, it was quite wild to see this kind of guy going from permanently angry to this cheerful. It was also surprising to see that his mysterious past was actually something so simple lol

Getting a lap pillow from his waifu, instead of the usual diet of sarcasm and being served grass tea, probably has more than a bit to do with it. Also, you know, getting that whole weight related to his mom lifted from his shoulders. Garfiel pre trial had an hidden agenda and people to undermine or brownbeat into not challenging his authority. Garfiel post trial accepted that the whole foundation of his crusade against freeing the sanctuary was built on faulty assumptions and has largely decided his 14-year old self shouldn't have the final say on what to do about the barrier. As such, he has let go of the front he was putting for the sake of his self appointed mission. Rather than make his own calls, now Garfiel decided to support Subaru as someone who outsmarted and beat him and as someone who everyone around him is saying is worthy of trust in terms of knowing the how and when of pulling a win from the jaws of defeat. Also he's a 14 y-o chuuni, probably worth remembering that.

Yuvelir wrote:

BTW weren't Authorities supposed to manifest differently from person to person? Because Subaru's was pretty much the same as Petelgeuse, even if weaker. Is this supposed to inform even more of how similar the two are? Oh, and when something "broke" inside Subaru when he used shamak again, was that his Od or the "seal" on his Authority? Was the latter intentional?

Authorities do change from person to person. We already seen the archbishop of Greed (Regulus) as an example and his skills are nothing like Echidna's. Thing is, for yet unexplained reasons, the authority of sloth always tends to manifest powers in the same ballpark. Consider that Sekhmet's original authority is exactly the same, only it appears to be more powerful and even less constrained by matters of range.

Yuvelir wrote:

And well, I guess in the end Emilia isn't Satella but her daughter... maybe. Writing that I remembered that the silver-haired purple-eyed half-elf that appeared in the same flashback reel as young Petelgeuse is Emilia's mother figure but not her actual biological mother, unless I understood something wrong. So I guess in the end by "witch's daughter" Echidna could mean the surrogate mother, Satella, both or neither... Although if Satella IS Emilia's mother, that would make her obsession over Subaru kind of creepy.

I'll preface this by saying that all and all, Emilia's parentage, particularly her mother, probably has the most amount of theories being thrown around in speculation circles. I have my pet candidate and it's not Satella but rather Minerva, but it's anyone's guess at this point. That said, I'll throw the same caveat I always do when people put foward it has to be Satella: Emilia is affected by the barrier of the Sanctuary, which requires her to be half-breed, not quarter breed. As Satella is herself an half-elf, any offspring of hers with a non half father would not be affected by the barrier. The only way around this issue is if the offspring of 2 half elfs produces an half elf that triggers the barrier, which is possible but not comfirmed and more importantly, puts some heavy restrictions on the side of her father that no other candidate does.

And of course, there is the pesky detail of the 300~ gap between Satella's rampage and Emilia being born, but that's a problem for every candidate that would make Emilia a "witch's daughter" so it's not worth worrying at this juncture.

Also, and I'll preface this by saying I'm not fluent in Japanese, I'm told that the expression Echidna used (majo no musume), while commonly translated as "witch's daughter" can also be read as "witch child" or "girl witch". For what is worth, all translations, both official and otherwise, have went with daughter and less ambiguous lines by Echidna further along the story do seem to imply that's what she meant, but it's worth considering.

OrdepNM wrote:

Authorities do change from person to person. We already seen the archbishop of Greed (Regulus) as an example and his skills are nothing like Echidna's. Thing is, for yet unexplained reasons, the authority of sloth always tends to manifest powers in the same ballpark. Consider that Sekhmet's original authority is exactly the same, only it appears to be more powerful and even less constrained by matters of range.

I guess they were too lazy to come up with new powers.

... wait, I forgot what Echidna's authority was like.

OrdepNM wrote:

And of course, there is the pesky detail of the 300~ gap between Satella's rampage and Emilia being born, but that's a problem for every candidate that would make Emilia a "witch's daughter" so it's not worth worrying at this juncture.

Also, and I'll preface this by saying I'm not fluent in Japanese, I'm told that the expression Echidna used (majo no musume), while commonly translated as "witch's daughter" can also be read as "witch child" or "girl witch". For what is worth, all translations, both official and otherwise, have went with daughter and less ambiguous lines by Echidna further along the story do seem to imply that's what she meant, but it's worth considering.

Eh, she was put in the freezer, she was good to go for 300 years.
As for "majo no musume"... I don't know enough to say that "witch child" is outright wrong, but it would be a very weird and awkward way to put it.

Yuvelir wrote:

I guess they were lazy to come up with new powers.

... wait, I forgot what Echidna's authority was like.

I'll just say that hasn't been a problem in any other instance, and we've had quite a few already in the source material. It seems more like a sloth thing. Maybe sloth is sloth is sloth. Echidna's authority allows her to craft those books of knowledge that Roswal and Beatrice has, which tell the future in detail, rather than the faulty knockoffs the cult uses that mostly seem to tell you what you should do next.

Yuvelir wrote:

Eh, she was put in the freezer, she was good to go for 300 years.
As for "majo no musume"... I don't know enough to say that "witch child" is outright wrong, but it would be a very weird and awkward way to put it.

The idea of Emilia being conceived during a conjugal visit is... Amusing, I'll admit haha. Well, I'll have more to say in future episodes as we get more information, but the father side of the equation also bears consideration, specially with Satella being an half elf herself. There's actualy only one candidate that checks all boxes without having to handwave anything, but from a storyline standpoint it's... Really really out there. Either way it's one of the big mysteries and unlike the Jon Snow mystery, there's no 1 theory everyone has settled on as 99% likely to be correct.

The alternative that's more often told is "witch girl" for what is worth. Again, with context for how things will play out I don't think it's too relevant and Echidna did mean daughter, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

We seem to suddenly be close to end of Arc 4 faster than expected. Does this mean we get super fast Arc 5 (the smallest arc), or just filer/fluff?

@Yuvelir @OrdepNM

In a Q&A Tappei confirmed that actually is a different authority despite its similarities in looks. So it does follow pattern of them manifesting differently based on individual provided they are compatible. Also Subaru's can do things Petelgeuse couldn't later on.

Quote:

Q: Are Subaru’s ‘Invisible Providence’ and Betelgeuse’s ‘Unseen Hand’ the same thing? If they’re different, is there a reason they look similar?

A: They’re different, but there is a reason they look similar.

Key wrote:

Iron Maw wrote:

There are still unresolved issues such as why Subaru broke his promise which needs to be addressed for things to truly move forward. . .

Looks like the end of episode 41 resolves that quite succinctly. Cool

There's a lot more that could be said about episode 41, but I think I'll wait until the review goes up to comment further.

He's such adorable dumbass lol

AJ (LordNikon) wrote:

We seem to suddenly be close to end of Arc 4 faster than expected. Does this mean we get super fast Arc 5 (the smallest arc), or just filer/fluff?

Arc 5 ain't happening this season. We still have a lot of arc 4 to go.

AJ (LordNikon) wrote:

We seem to suddenly be close to end of Arc 4 faster than expected. Does this mean we get super fast Arc 5 (the smallest arc), or just filer/fluff?

Arc 5 can be done in 12-13 episodes but anything else would be criminal, and I also doubt the show that's been cutting OPs, EDs and ad time left and right will suddenly start doing filler. That said, with this episode we've finished Volume 13, leaving 9 episodes for volumes 14 and 15, tough I believe that says more about them wanting to be thorough and cut as little as possible. The last 2 volumes are crucial, so I'm all for it.

On that note, this episode once again cut very little, the pre fight argument with Garfiel had a few more lines, the fight itself had more punches than 1, but it's a very faithful adaptation no matter how you slice it.

I suppose the bigger difference is that reading the books, it really didn't come as a suprise that Garfiel had a solf spot and was holding a front. We spend a bit of time in his headspace and see how he truly considers the Ryuzus his grandmothers, so much so that he refuses to use his authority to control them outside of emergencies and flips out when he discovers they are missing. Also, cute trivia, the reason he has all those foreigny expressions despite never having left the village is because he's read everything on Ryuzu's bookshelf.

Emilia sits this fight out not because she wants to, we see from his POV that she's dying to get in there and put a stop to it, but she respects Subaru's request to not intervene and get in the way of what he's trying to get Garfiel to understand. In a way, she's starting to understand that sometimes you gotta put your health - and a teeth or two - on the line for something you believe in. Good thing healing magic is... Literally magic lol.

As for the drawings of encouragement, there we have the reason why he sneaked out. As to wether it was OK to drag the mystery when it was causing such distress, I'll leave it to each person's respective judgment, but I agree with the review, he acted wrong but his heart was in the right place. Give him a scolding and let it go.

Lastly, Emilia's mic drop! It was a shame that scene didn't get an illustration in the books, so it was great to finally see it. Echidna is also acting very differently now. Up to now we've seen the Echidna that wants something from Subaru and is trying to wrap him around her finger to get it, but this Echidna doesn't want anything from Emilia... Either that or she's really pissed that Subaru turned her down, professed his love and kissed the other girl in her tomb and then just to rub it in scrawled all over her walls. That could be it.

Iron Maw wrote:

@Yuvelir @OrdepNM

In a Q&A Tappei confirmed that actually is a different authority despite its similarities in looks. So it does follow pattern of them manifesting differently based on individual provided they are compatible. Also Subaru's can do things Petelgeuse couldn't later on.

Ah, thanks for reminding me!

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