Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- [2020-07-13]
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Juno016
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I am fluent and I can strictly say... well, it's too ambiguous for strict analysis on the words alone, but the delivery, both in the novel and the anime, suggest this line is a key piece of dialog. I'd place my bets on it being "daughter", especially with there being a mystery surrounding Emilia's real mother and the need for an alternate mother figure to take her real mother's place in the story (next episode). But yeah, even being fluent won't shed any more light on this mystery, unfortunately. |
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stilldemented
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I had a lot of fun with this episode, but there were moments where I felt a little lost. Reading this review and community responses on reddit helped in ironing certain things out, but I feel the episode needed something extra to provide clarification. I didn't really understand that Subaru's magic gate cracked or that Garfiel was talking about the encouraging messages left inside the tomb for Emilia. And I almost missed that those messages were why Subaru broke his promise.
I also found some of the dialogue a little more roundabout than usual. I feel like this is more of a translation thing, but i don't know. There were certain lines where I almost felt like I needed a translation for the translation. It's not really that I didn't understand what was being conveyed, more so that I felt there had to be a more digestible way of relaying specific lines. One that sticks out is Subaru's line after Garfiel talks about the Quain(?) Stone. But there were a couple other exchanges where I felt like the characters were talking past each other and I couldn't tell if it was happening on purpose or not. "gotta be a cooler way of saying that" comes to mind. (?) It could absolutely be a PEBCAK error on my part. Won't try to deny it.There was a lot of show don't tell where I needed some telling. And I and words no mingle. Other than those very mild complaints, what I love about the writing behind this show is the way it keeps flipping expectations on their head and finding the much more complicated emotional beats. You look at Garfiel and his mommy issues, and expect him to have it out for her, but it's more complicated than that because the truth of the matter is that he's not lashing out because of her. In a weird way, he feels responsible for her death since he believed she left them to find happiness elsewhere only to die a miserable death. It's why he attacks baby Garf. It's why he scars his forehead. It's why he has zero expectations for the outside word. The writing just continually feeds into itself, and it's great. Which is why I am paying such careful attention to very benign details and why I need to know if something is getting lost in translation or something needs to be clarified, etc. |
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OrdepNM
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That was indeed confusing and led quite a few people to think he was talking about Subaru's kiss with Emilia. I've been told it's mostly a translation issue because Garfiel is trying to be coy and the nuance doesn't carry as seamlessly, but make of that what you will. For reference here is how the dialogue in question was handled in the book:
I also here Garfiel can be tough to translate due to all the weird names and sayings he throws around all the time. Subaru says several times that he will beat Garfiel with numbers but to Garfiel, with his chuuni ways, that sounds lame and he wants it said in another (cooler) way. At the end of the fight he finally remembers the saying "None can lift the Quain stone alone", which just means "some challenges can't be tackled on your own" and in this case, Garfiel was the Quain stone. Subaru responds that one of Garfiel's sayings finally made sense to him. |
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stilldemented
Posts: 232 |
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@OrdepNM THANK YOU!!!! I nearly knew something had to be throwing me for a loop dialogue-wise! I'm impressed someone knew exactly what was bothering me about those very specific moments. That perfectly parsed pretty much everything that was confusing me! A++.
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maximilianjenus
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That explains the shimoneta crossover fanart. |
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Ensaru64
Posts: 52 |
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Ah, I needed this. Everyone was praising this episode left and right but I found a lot of things to be very jarring. Your comment put a few things into perspective for me. But even with this I just feel like there are a lot of things that were cut from this episode. It just feels so haphazard. And it's funny because my usual criticism with Re:Zero is that there's often not enough in an episode. Now, this episode feels like they crammed in too much. These recent two episodes were where I felt no OST and slowing down a bit would've helped a bit. I was also a bit confused over how Otto and Rem ended up surviving Garfiel. The past timeline made me think he goes slightly feral when he transformed, but he confronts Subaru and Co. and we later find out that Otto and Rem are both fine. Did they just allow him to leave after a bit? Did Garfiel just leave them be? Was it because of Otto's confrontation that Garfiel mellowed out a bit? Before, Garfiel felt like a desperate, terrifying and imposing monster cat. My experience with this episode has soured my experience a bit with this season. |
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Gina Szanboti
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I think that's a reference to the infamous "yeet" scene in Episode 24 of Fruits Basket. If not, then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Evaunit02berserk
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Hah, as if the ladies could hold a candle to Emilia |
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1008 |
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I don't think that's smth even the LN explains, but presumably Ram and Garfiel were able to outlast him. They were never trying to really *beat* Garfiel, nor do I think they believed they could, they were just trying to stall so that Subaru and Emilia could talk. So yeah, it's entirely possible they just let him go after a while. Garfiel ultimately doesn't want to kill unless he feels he absolutely has to, hence his decision to merely kidnap Subaru and tie him up in a previous loop as opposed to just simply killing him which would be far easier. Heck, him destroying the graveyard is just so that he can justify not having to kill Subaru or anyone else. Because if the graveyard is destroyed, no one can take the trials, and the barrier is up forever. The anime lightly touches on this (Subaru calling him a coward for hiding behind his blood), but the reason he also goes into his beast form as much as he does is so that, when he does kill, he can just blame it on a mindless beast's rampage rather than him making a conscious decision to take a life. He doesn't have the heart to kill in cold blood. tbh there are just some things you aren't meant to get on a first watch so Re:Zero is a show that benefits greatly from a rewatch. This episode in particular. Finding out he's a chuuni teenager at the end of the episode puts some of his dialogue earlier in the episode, and throughout the whole season, in better context. |
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Hiroki not Takuya
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For the second part, glad that someone else wasn't expecting that new ability that came from nowhere but presented like it was known to be in his arsenal. Maybe because it was in the manga and not the anime to this point? However, Emilia's several changes in behavior at the end also seemed to me to be like Garfiel's. Last season she was presented as being super quiet, lacking confidence and generally finding the trial traumatizing and terrifying but after Subaru's pep talk, she can face off against Garfiel and just walk into the trial to beat it like it wasn't anything and afterward spout off at Echidna. As you say, lacking versimilitude... |
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1008 |
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Again, the anime only lightly touches on this, but the way the first time Garfiel's trial went, he didn't actually hear any of what they were saying. He just saw his mother leaving, the landslide, and then the trial ended. Basically just a silent projection. Frederica's words to him about him being now old enough to know the truth are implied to be the reason why he can hear what they're saying now. And even then, failing a trial tends to not be a very pleasant experience, in fact it can be downright traumatic, so I think it can be forgiven if he was too afraid to try it again until this point. As for Subaru's new technique, it's been a long time since it was mentioned directly, but we have known about him possessing the Sloth Witch Factor since the beginning of the season, which is something that was said to have originally belonged to Petelgeuse, and Echidna had told him that she had activated it. This is the first time he's used the Authority, it just needed the right trigger (his gate breaking and no longer being able to use magic may have also played a part but it isn't explained in the LN afaik). As for Emilia, she herself says that she doesn't know whether she's truly confident or whether she's just putting on a tough front. A number of characters in this series are able to pull off convincing facades to hide their deeper feelings While it's true some aspects might not be as clear as they could be, I feel like a lot of confusion is just forgetting details that were set up back in July or August that are coming back up again now. Or people want things to be explained explicitly rather than just simply inferring them Last edited by ThatGuyWhoLikesThings on Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:25 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Iron Maw
Posts: 490 |
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Because it can be inferred they had fought to a draw. After he ended up given run around it by Otto, he fought Ram where he took devastating blows from her oni powered attacks and then was hit by an Al class spell (the highest level type of any spell) that would killed most things. Garf survived but he took huge amount damage that would have forced him to revert to human form that you see at the end of last ep. Otto and Ram themselves taken good deal of damage in that fight so they would be too tired themselves to chase after him immediately. Besides he wouldn't have heart to kill them anyway while he still has rationality. He can only do that in beast form where he doesn't have to think. That's why Subaru called him a coward, cause he can't walk his talk. I can't see how you can look at him beginning of this episode and think he was fine when he's wounded and bleeding all over anyway. Garfiel is strong and tough but he was never made out to be invincible.
Garf, hadn't taken the trial in several years so he wasn't failing over and over again. This was his 2nd attempt at doing it all. The episode should have made that clear. Even Subaru brings that up to explain the differences between him and Emilia in how they are handling the trial. So this doesn't make much sense. He took the trial again because his fight with Subaru and Ram's heart-to-heart had calmed him down and convinced him to confront it again to get the answers to his anxieties which where the primary source of his trauma.
Emilia has face off against people just as or more dangerous than Garf so um what? Hell in Frozen Bonds she beat up grown ass men who sell her into slavery and fought monster apes! I think you need to watch last season again. Because in the very first episode when she meets Subaru for the time Emilia was quite high strung, not quiet. She battle bravely against Elsa and Petelgeuse with and level head disposition not fear. In ep 13 she got angry and yelled at Subaru and she stood up against Roswaal to defend Subaru against accusation of murder in ep 7. Even at the start of this arc she had vowed to villagers to left lift the barrier and kept insisting that Subaru have faith in her to do that. Yes Emilia has had a lot of trauma that effects her behavior in subtle ways but she hasn't exactly been a wallflower. She just simply buried her insecurities under a mask in order to tough out her hardships, in no small thanks to Puck being by her side. If anything she rarely let that side of her show until this season where the cat spirit is largely absent. So no Emilia being able to take a firm stand isn't out of character. For that matter the whole point of pep talk was to boaster her confidence which increased significantly when she saw what Subaru did for her in the tomb. Really this like complaining that Subaru recovered some confidence in From Zero after his peptalk with Rem after being downtrodden and irrational for several episodes. Last edited by Iron Maw on Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:17 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Yuvelir
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And there's the not very trivial detail, stated two episodes ago, that the reason why Emilia couldn't pass the trial is because she was lacking her memories. Which prompted Puck's more permanent disappearance.
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OrdepNM
Posts: 243 |
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There really, really isn't. There's a couple of lines cut before and during the fight, like 1 line cut during Ram and Garfiel's talk and one of Subaru's line is shortened when talking to Emilia.
As Yuvelir says above, Emilia can only walk into the trial like that because she now has her memories unlocked. That she even sees a forest now is already progress. Iirc it was one of the things that were cut during the translation from gargantuan web novel to 6 volumes worth of light novel so it's no longer strictly canon but Emilia claims up to this point she only saw a blizzard and voices berating her. Not alot to challenge. |
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Iron Maw
Posts: 490 |
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That is partly in the LN and anime tho. IIRC ep 39 shows a part of Emilia's nightmare about the trial. So its still canon, just not all of it is shown. |
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