Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- [2020-07-13]
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Iron Maw
Posts: 489 |
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Well the garms needed have bitten you for their curse to work so regardless with you shaman or not the rule still applies if one is practicing that magic style. Moreover Satella cursing Subaru would be oddly because they spell that only harm people & RBD on it's own doesn't do this. Although in some of the side materials it was revealed that some mages working on experimenting with curses to push them beyond the limits of what they could do beyond killing I doubt the WoE as powerful as she is had the mind to have any interest in that.
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Valjean Lafitte
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By courtyard, do you mean the battlefield where she and Crusch were attacked by the Sin Archbishop Gluttony? I don't understand why Subaru would wait until Rem was tucked in bed to kill himself again? |
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Iron Maw
Posts: 489 |
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No he means where he found her in ep 1 out in the field. Subaru wasn't anywhere near the battlefield didn't even know what happened until he regrouped with Crusch & co. If Subaru killed himself when talking to Emilia he wouldn't even know the circumstances that led to Rem's state. He his main advantage with RBD is that he can retroactively learn what will happen in the future in some detail. There no reason for him to think the Savepoint would have moved to be after Rem's coma because he doesn't learn the specifics of RBD until his recent conversation with Dona. |
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FlamingFirewire
 Posts: 461 |
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Dollars to doughnuts, the reason why Garfiel's reaction changes so many times between resets has something to do with his oath with one of the characters spoiler[(Echidna? She would make the most sense since she created this experiment zone herself, and how Garfiel's supposed to be an Apostle of Greed)] - given how important contracts are supposed to be in this world, Garfiel's reaction & unwillingness to explain himself (just like his sister) likely changes depending on how much of a threat Subaru seems to be to the Sanctuary. |
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Yuvelir
 Posts: 1545 |
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Alright, that was a lot of shock value if anything else. A lot of many things and I'm having trouble putting my thoughts in order.
Chronologically... -I assumed "Mother" was Satella, but these tomes of absoute knowledge should have tipped me off. Beako's vow seems to be pretty cruel but I guess there's some misunderstanding behind it? Also, how do people and spirits keep falling into these unpleasant and unbreakable promises? I also guess that she has no special vow towards Roswaal, he just happens to be the owner of the house the library is in... that is assuming he isn't someone else altogether since I'm starting to doubt his age is even on the double digits anymore. -I always wondered what happened to that suspicious loli, now I know. -WTF did Elsa do? -Actually surprised that you can kill a spirit with a just a bit of stabbity stab, considering Puck keeps vaporizing and reforming it and he doesn't depend on it to exist or live. Unless Elsa did something more. -At first I thought that Beatrice did something to Subaru with her outstretched hand (because the RbD sound effect played) but it was just the amulet. Actually, what does trigger the amulet's teleportation? -I thought Satella was back (with its dark and scary implications) but it was just a deranged Emilia. Actually, was she also like that last time Subaru was killed by the rabbits? -I expected Roswaal to do something like that sooner than later, specially since he knows when a run is doomed. I just didn't expect him to do it with his limbs lol (really, what did get him bandaged up like that? Or is it all an act so he can stay idle?) -I didn't really understand the point of breaking Emilia into clinging to Subaru. Like at all. Although I do understand using the snow to summon the Killer Rabbits to... motivate Subaru further? Because he doesn't have enough things on his plate already? -I also don't get how Subaru guessed that Roswaal was after the snow, specially considering how slow he has been on the uptake. -This isn't the first time that someone tells Subaru to focus on what he desires most (implied to be Emilia, I guess) and discard everything else, but who was it last time? Puck? But this is coming from characters who have their own desires and the opposite of what Subaru with Echidna's persuasion set on to achieve so let's see what wins out in the end - the foreboding warnings to focus or his righteous greed. -Why did Roswaal give him a beating again? My best guess is that he doesn't know the exact mechanics of RbD and he was trying to scare him into resetting? He said something about Subaru's state of mind, but the beating didn't really make him calmer, angrier or more scared. -Some Holy Hand Grenades are still in order. At least this time they didn't eat him form the inside out and managed to escape. It's an achievement I guess. As a side note: -Of the three people confirmed to know about RbD, the only one that doesn't treat lives as disposable because of it is Subaru. That says a lot about all these characters. The cour is almost over and Subaru still has made no visible progress into unraveling this mess (understandably) even though he has learned a lot about the whos and whys. His current task list looks something like: -Help Emilia beat the trials -Destroy the Killer Rabbits -Thread whatever needle Roswaal wants him to -Learn more about Frederica and her mission -(long term) Free Beatrice from her vow -Deflect the assassins -(optional I guess) Learn who sent the assassins (my money is on Roswaal since he is the greatest conspiration machine and the mission is so oddly specific) That's a lot on his plate, last time it was just "hunt a whale" and "stop the dangerous lunatics", and the tutorial stages before were pretty much just "survive". |
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
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Because the only other individual in Sanctuary powerful enough to cause that much snow to fall is Puck, and he's not exactly around at the moment. Even if he was around, he'd only be making it happen if Emilia died. And she's very much alive. Not in the greatest of states, but alive. That leaves only Roswaal, who is definitely powerful enough to trigger something on this kind of scale. |
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OrdepNM
 Posts: 243 |
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Besides the books, Roswal also confirmed a while ago that he is an Echidna devotee. Consider how much he treasures his book of knowledge, it's safe to say that thing operates on the power of greed and that, since Roswal and the Betrice have the only 2 copies of that item, they likely devote to the same person. Beatrice does confirm at this point that she has no pact with Roswal, he's only been around what, 30 years? She couldn't care less. Regarding his age, I will note that in the EX 2 novel we do meet Roswal's grandmother and clearly the current Roswal isn't around yet.
Whatever she did when she escaped Reinhard's OP attack back in S1 largely unscathed, you know, the absolutely broken fighter that's too OP for his own good. She's quite crafty that one.
Spirits dont have vital points per se, their forms are basically window dressing, but they do take physical damage, so being run through with a kukri can kill them if they don't have the endurance to tank it. Do allow for a bit of RPG logic tough, where getting stabbed in combat is always less dangerous than getting stabbed in a cutscene.[/quote]
I think by now its safe to say Beatrice is the one who's tinkered with the crystal.
I suppose we'll never know. On one hand, one of the ingredients, Subaru leaving with no explanation right after Puck did the same thing, didn't happen as by leaving Patrasche in the Sanctuary, it was obvious he hadn't gone far or willingly. On the other hand, we're told by Otto that Emilia wanted to broaden the searches for Subaru but Rowal told her no can do until the Sanctuary is freed because they're all stuck there, so it is possible she tried to take the trials repeatedly to make that happen and landed on the same place.
He is actually hurt, I think even the anime notes that it wasn't Ram but Garf who did his bandages as she has no confidence in her nurse work (not that she'd ever admit to it). He got hurt by attempting to entering the tomb while not having the qualifications, which makes the mana in his body erupt. Since he has alot of mana, he got really hurt. For someone with only residual mana like Subaru, the author described entering the tomb as "experiencing that split second discomfort of when an elevator reaches its destination and stops, only it doesn't go away until you leave". Roswal entered the tomb, despite knowing he would be hurt, a) because the book said he would and b) to calm things down between the Sanctuary residents and the human "hostages", by proving that he was actually working on freeing them but that it wasn't so simple as "getting in there". And Roswal is actually really strong. He actually has a line during that scene in the book where he notes no one ever expects magic users to also be good at physical combat, so he usually surprises people with that.
The snow is all about driving Emilia into a corner (and then putting Subaru in that corner). People know she is "Emilia from Elior Forest", a place famous for being in a state of permafrost, the villagers from Arlem also saw the freak snow that was restricted to the grounds of the manor Emilia was staying at, less than a year after she moved in. When an out of season blizzard starts out of nowhere, who are they going to blame? It was cut from the books (actually this episode had the most cut content so far) but Garfiel actually meets Subaru as he walks into the Sanctury village and basically marches him into the tomb to pull Emilia out so they can get her to stop making it snow. It's heavily implied the poor girl had to run in there to escape mob justice, after getting one last blow to her psyche from having the people she just befriended turn on her, because they think she's going to turn their homes into Elior Forest part II. The Rabbits are more about giving Subaru a hard time limit and not give him alot of wiggle room to look for alternative solutions than the one he (read: the book) expects them to take. Also, remember that a valid answer to any question of "Why did Roswal did X?" can be sufficiently answered by saying "because the book told him to". Roswal will elaborate on his plans at a later date so I'll leave further elaboration for then.
Simple exclusion of suspects. It wasn't Emilia (she actually has no magic of her own and Puck isn't around), there's only one known great mage in the vicinity. Even if say, Ryuzu, is really good at magic, unbeknownst to him, why would she go and possibly wreck the place she's been protecting for centuries? Honestly, with Puck not around and Emilia alive, it should be obvious it's Roswal.
Puck didn't necessarily tell Subaru to drop everything and focus solely on Emilia. He did blame Subaru for breaking his promise to her and setting the events that led to her death in motion. Later (start of this season) he asks Subaru to look after Emilia, before he peaces out.
He doesn't know dying is what makes Subaru reset, the book isn't that specific. His causing pain to Subaru to get him to reset, thinking it's something he can actually control.
It was another cut scene but the reason he made it to the tomb in one piece is that he commanded the empty Ryuzus to protect him as he made his way to the tomb and they all died keeping the bunnies off of him, tough he clearly still got more than a few bites alot the way. He also catches a glimpse of the Cathedral catching fire, supposedly the villagers having decided that burning was preferable to being eaten alive. This really is the darkest timeline. |
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Yuvelir
Posts: 1545 |
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I'll have to take that last line, because driving Emilia into a corner as a concept doesn't make much sense whatsoever. Not even to motivate Subaru, who has enough on his plate with everyone dying left and right and the killer rabbits coming to get whoever survives.
Couldn't he have guessed so the first time? Didn't he also briefly suspect Garfield? There's no reason to discard powerful characters within the sanctuary, afterall the snow itself is just that, a bit of snow. If they wanted to hurt/drive off Emilia or those related to her, a little taste of winter isn't much of a sacrifice. And that is before considering further conspirators that he doesn't know about yet and that might be around, like the Hammelin Loli he met minutes ago Actually, what was that about the missing letter? The main conspirator didn't know about it.
So it wasn't Puck. I remember someone calmly telling Subaru something very very similar (I think with the implication he should forget about Rem/let her die) but I can't recall who it was. |
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Seagloom
Posts: 276 |
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Roswaal seems to have been trying to mold Subaru into a certain type of person from the start. I don't think his goal is to help Subaru self-actualize through hardship. It's to mold Subaru into the kind of person that will aid in achieving his goals. That means making their goals align--which likely requires a morally bankrupt mindset to accomplish. Note that in this week's episode Roswaal tells Subaru to focus on protecting what's most precious to him at the expense of everything else, despite knowing that runs contrary to his nature. Roswaal probably believes it's Emilia as Subaru is hardly subtle about it. As you wrote, Subaru has enough on his plate with everything transpiring. But that's because Subaru cares about everyone involved. Finding a way out of this loop would be easier if he fixated on saving Emilia. However, doing that would likely result in a massacre and Emilia herself being broken. It would make Subaru a monster. Roswaal knows Subaru hasn't sunk that low yet; so forcing Emilia into a corner is likely part of a strategy to wear him down. It wouldn't surprise me if everything in this arc is an impossible scenario he created to force Subaru into sacrificing others for Emilia's sake. In short, it's a psychological attack made in an attempt to break Subaru. |
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OrdepNM
Posts: 243 |
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Driving Emilia into a corner is about making her dependent on Subaru, turn her into his puppet if you will, I'll quote the relevant text from the novel:
So, on the face of it, Roswaal wants to break Emilia as a person and make her fully dependent on Subaru. In fact, he seems to want to put Subaru fully into the driver's seat, as someone who can just save-scum his way to a desired result. What result? Well, whatever the case may be, you might have noticed Roswaal is abit of a zealot... someone who wants something so bad that he's jealous of Beatrice for getting her wished fulfilled - which was to get killed by someone. The problem, like Seagloom notes, is that in his eyes, Subaru is not up to the task. Subaru only has too much on his plate because he's trying to eat everything instead of focusing solely on his priority, which is Emilia. Roswal is someone with a great personal brand who believes that in pursuit of something there are no sacred cows, and he will accept no other viewpoints. In his eyes, Subaru actually does have a lack of motivation, in his eyes he needs his own heavy dose of zealotry, he needs to be like him.
He never suspected Garfiel. Say what you will about the guy but the one thing he's been consistent on is his drive to protect the Sanctuary from all threats real and fictional. And not really? Actually his first assumption was also Emilia/Puck and he sorta carried that through until he met Emilia in the tomb. And sure, any number of outsider agents could be doing the snow... except you can't find the Sanctuary unless you know where to find the Sanctuary, that's part of the barrier's effect, otherwise you just get lost in the surrounding Woods of Kremaldy... And yes I suppose someone who knows could have told someone else where to find the sanctuary and that someone would then go there and cast the spell but then we're back at square 0 and by that point, honestly, Occam's Razor kinda dictates Roswaal is on top of the suspects list, tough I suppose if he wanted he could have feigned ignorance.
Winter is scary to a pre-industrialized society, specially to farmers. Crops don't grow, game becomes scarce, you need to eat into your stockpiles, which you built up over the year hoping it would be enough to last the Winter. One mishap during the year and you could go hungry or die during the Winter. Someone magically making it snow during say, Summer or the harvest season? That's nothing short of an existential threat to subsistence farmers. And then there's the possibility that the snow just never stops, like what happened at Elior, then they have to uproot their entire village and become vagrants, hoping that some lord somewhere lets them settle in his land. These are scary prospects any way you slice them, and scared people lash out.
That was Ram, tough the circumstances were very different. After narrowly escaping Elsa's assassination and exiting the mansion, Subaru wanted to run back in and fetch Rem and Beatrice. Ram gave him a reality check, that between Frederica that got grievously injured in the first encounter, Petra who is a child, Subaru who is Subaru and Ram who is amazing, they really have not nearly enough firepower to throw against Elsa, so they should cut their losses, forget about what's beyond his reach and get outta there. He goes all shonen protagonist about things just working out, convinces the other 2, they run back in and quickly proceed to get cut to pieces. That wasn't so much Ram espousing Roswaal's life philosophy, as much as it was a lesson on realism, Subaru had no hand to play but he went to game anyway and the expected result happened.[/i] |
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1008 |
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There are 3 factors at play that contributed to Emilia's current mental state - the trial, the snow, and Subaru's absence. The trial goes without saying. We've seen time and again the severe emotional toll it's taken on her. We also heard from Otto two loops prior that Roswaal used Subaru's disappearance as leverage against her to pressure her into tackling the trial again and again, with the reasoning of being able to form a search party if the barrier is taken down. And we know Emilia is the type to disregard her own well-being for the sake of someone else. The second factor is the snow. That it happened earlier isn't relevant to her condition, just that it happened at all. Roswaal creating heavy and dangerous snowfall is for the purpose of applying additional stress to her, essentially by making everyone else believe that *she* did it. The villagers in particular would of course blame her, given that they were around for the events of Memory Snow, so they know she's capable of it (she actually can't do something like this without Puck, but they dont know this; even if they did, they'd still consider her responsible) . Being the target of their blame and persecution would no doubt pile on more stress on her. Now take the above two factors, then take into account she has to handle both of these issues entirely by herself. Puck isn't around, Subaru isn't around (and given the mysterious disappearance of his letter, from her perspective he just up and vanished without a trace) no one is around to give her the support she needs or take her side. It ultimately became far too much for her, and she winded up breaking, leaving behind a helpless and traumatized girl, utterly dependent on Subaru to do much of anything (if you look closely when Subaru returns at the very end, Emilia is clinging to his bloody jacket - she's completely reliant on him). And Roswaal implies that this is exactly what he wanted - for Emilia to be entirely dependent on Subaru and for Subaru to devote anything and everything to her, at the expense of everything else if need be. |
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OrdepNM
Posts: 243 |
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I agree the choice of adding purple flames to Emilia's eyelids was abit confusing, as that's a motif usually associated with the witch, the Light Novel illustration didn't use that pattern fwiw. That's said, when you compare Satella's appearance last episode and this time, they basically could not be more far apart. Satella completely bypassed Subaru and went outside to start a rampage, Emilia waited in the tomb for Subaru to arrive; Satella could only morosely chant a single word, Emilia despite everything, was fairly capable of articulate speech; Satella gasped at Subaru's self inflected stab wound and cried as his life faded away, Emilia would not acknowledge Subaru's mangled body or that he was dying. Add to that the fact that Satella has never gotten involved outside of Subaru's attempts to speak about RBD and there's a pretty solid body of evidence to dismiss the notion that it was Satella again.
Allow me to break that down: -Puck left abruptly (ok that happens every loop but it's still important). Puck and Emilia have a symbiotic relationship with eachother, he's literally been with her since the time of her very first memory, as we've seen in the Froen Bonds OVA, so she's clearly already in a very fragile emotional state. -The trial happens and instead of having her freak out and leaning on others (Subaru) for support, she bottles it all down and pretends to be much calmer than she is, for his sake. -Subaru leaves. This isn't like last time when he was kidnapped, as it was clear something had happened since Patrasche was still stabled, this time he just up and left with no explanation, right after Puck. As someone who literally just started opening up to the idea that some people might not hate her because of her race, the 2 people who always professed to have her back unconditionally up and left in a matter of days. By now pressure is rising. -She runs into the chamber of the trials and starts taking the trial over and over, desperately looking to pass it so she can go after Subaru and find out what happened. Ok this part is only stated in the books but look where she's staying, she's in the chamber of the trials, she literally can't stay there without triggering the trial. Repeatedly experiencing the things that so messed her up the first time wears away at her psyche. -Roswal starts the snow. The gullible Garfiel runs his mouth and blames it on Emilia (in the LN Roswaal says Garfiel was the first one to accuse her but I suppose it doesn't really matter), it clicks with the villagers who already seen a similar unusual snowfall during the Memory Snow incident and it's agreed that it has to be Emilia that's causing the snowfal from inside the tomb. Now she can't leave even if she wanted to because the people outside are hostile to her, so she continues to take the trial. -Eventually her mind gives in to the mental stress of the trial and this is the result. Roswal has a solid plan, but it's just the last part of what I wrote, he had no knowledge of the letter and he couldn't have predicted Subaru just bolting at first light. He wants to make Emilia dependent on Subaru by turning the Sanctuary against her and having Subaru be the only one there for her, but this time he's not and this fully crazed shadow of a person that won't even register someone dying is abit too far gone. His plan ultimately failed this time, which is also why he's so eager for Subaru to get going with the next loop and why the snowfall started so soon this time. As it's clear, it was Subaru and Puck, the 2 people she actually trusts the most, who actually drove her to this cliff. Roswall just gave that tiny last push as he was basically preparing to jump himself. That's just the grim bookend to this loop that started with newfound resolve and a promising starts, but in only one episode turned into arguably the worst outcome Subaru has ever achieved. Last edited by OrdepNM on Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:52 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Iron Maw
Posts: 489 |
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FYI, for why the letter never reached Emilia, its heaily implied that one of Ryuzu clones swipe it after Subaru left in the last ep. You literally see one of them watching him atm as he leaves that morning.
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bennyl
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I feel like subaru's response to things getting worse and worse is to get whinier and whinier. I get it, dying in horrible ways is going to screw with your mind, but holy crap. Man up a bit. I see a giant clown kill two people and my response isn't going to be to stand there and look stupified. The guy has returned from death about 100 times. How can anything be shocking to him at this point?
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Iron Maw
Posts: 489 |
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Add on to what the ever help OrdepNM has said, the in ep 3 of this arc, Emilia told Roswaal that she honestly had been feeling on edge every since she step into the sanctuary & has not been able to really calm down. The place has atmosphere that is really oppressive to her which empathized a bit more in LN (vol 10 ch 3 pg 121) but basically she is bearing with this unsettling feeling the best she can without Puck's presence with what bits of support she allow herself to take from Subaru. I fact out of everyone she is probably the person who wants to leave this place the most. This also contributes her lack of confidence & delicate emotional state right now. |
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