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Utsuro no Hako
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 1034
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:16 am
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[quote="IceLeaf"]
nargun wrote: |
You do realise that this an anime right? Even if they specify a century they're set in, they are never historically accurate. |
Yes, that's true for all forms of historical fiction, and when it's just something to make the plot work better, like with The Death of Stalin, it's fine. But when the inaccuracy reflects historical revisionism, particularly revisionism that that's employed by real-world bigots, that's a problem. And that's what we have here. The myth that European colonists kept other white Europeans as slaves is common among racists to try and minimize evil of race-based chattel slavery.
Now maybe this is just a case of the Japanese producers being ignorant about Western Culture, but if this is a co-pro with two American companies involved, they should've pointed out how problematic this is.
Quote: | There were islands taken over by the British Empires that the people didn't have "dark" skin. |
Yes, the British took over Ireland, but as badly mistreated as we were, we were never chattel. If you're referring to the Caribbean, the people there were dark skinned, just not black, and certainly darker than this pasty waif.
Quote: | Also if you didn't notice samurai and ninjas weren't pirates in the British Empire but no the inaccurate thing is her skin colour. |
Yeah, and that's a difference done for fun. I've got no problem with that. Calling a white woman chattel in the context of the British Empire is fundamentally different.
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Ryuji-Dono
Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 1210
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:30 am
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[quote="Utsuro no Hako"]
IceLeaf wrote: |
nargun wrote: |
You do realise that this an anime right? Even if they specify a century they're set in, they are never historically accurate. |
Yes, that's true for all forms of historical fiction, and when it's just something to make the plot work better, like with The Death of Stalin, it's fine. But when the inaccuracy reflects historical revisionism, particularly revisionism that that's employed by real-world bigots, that's a problem. And that's what we have here. The myth that European colonists kept other white Europeans as slaves is common among racists to try and minimize evil of race-based chattel slavery.
Now maybe this is just a case of the Japanese producers being ignorant about Western Culture, but if this is a co-pro with two American companies involved, they should've pointed out how problematic this is.
Quote: | There were islands taken over by the British Empires that the people didn't have "dark" skin. |
Yes, the British took over Ireland, but as badly mistreated as we were, we were never chattel. If you're referring to the Caribbean, the people there were dark skinned, just not black, and certainly darker than this pasty waif.
Quote: | Also if you didn't notice samurai and ninjas weren't pirates in the British Empire but no the inaccurate thing is her skin colour. |
Yeah, and that's a difference done for fun. I've got no problem with that. Calling a white woman chattel in the context of the British Empire is fundamentally different. |
While revisionism is very much an issue, I believe this is not the case and it's more a fantasy version of it. And there's the other thing the others pointed out.
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Takkun4343
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 1499
Location: Englewood, Ohio
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:46 am
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Utsuro no Hako wrote: | The myth that European colonists kept other white Europeans as slaves is common among racists to try and minimize evil of race-based chattel slavery. |
"Indentured servitude". Look it up.
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Utsuro no Hako
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 1034
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:56 am
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Takkun4343 wrote: |
Utsuro no Hako wrote: | The myth that European colonists kept other white Europeans as slaves is common among racists to try and minimize evil of race-based chattel slavery. |
"Indentured servitude". Look it up. |
Yeah, that's been covered multiple times in this thread. Indentured servants and chattel slaves are completely different things. The ad copy specifically calls Fena "chattel".
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invalidname
Contributor
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2444
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:14 am
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Scion Drake wrote: | I know right. Like sure all we got at the moment is a minute long trailer but it is just a teaser, that successively gives out the basic hook of the show which is samurai ninja pirates which isn't really a bad concept. Nothing wrong with having some optimism & waiting for a new show to show off its chops especially since it has the rest of the year & next to further refine itself.
I'm not saying it is but I feel like at least some of the negativity is due to the show being Western backed by Crunchyroll & Adult Swim. |
Seconded. I know everyone's still butthurt because High Guardian Spice exists -- hey, whatever happened to that thing, anyways? -- but jumping to trash an original anime based on a short trailer and the fact that it has Western backing is short-sighted.
I mean, if nothing else, thank god it's not another zero-effort isekai light novel show, right?
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Jonny Mendes
Joined: 17 Oct 2014
Posts: 997
Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:44 am
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Looking at the name of the Main character looks like Houtman is a family name used in Ireland.(Fena is also European (Germanic) name in origin).
Many Irish suffer "Indentured servitude" by the British Empire that can be seen as a form of slavery.
"Indentured servitude" don't lead to Chattel but because Fena is a orphan maybe born from Irish slaves that may lead to her becoming a Chattel if that were no other alternative (not historically correct because chattel slavery of Europeans where only made by Muslims, North Africans and Vikings and not by the British Empire, but this is a anime, not a history documentary so maybe some changes were made for anime plot value.).
Another point is that a slave becoming a pirate is a plot used before.
Captain Blood is about a Irish doctor that became a slave and was sold in Port Royal and became a pirate after escape.
Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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rahzel rose
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Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 824
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:14 pm
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I think this looks pretty cool tbqh. I like the character designs, and the action looks like it’ll be fun. Plus I’m already on board with the hot, long-haired swordsman guy. Now I’m just waiting for a cast list.
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Dextres
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 428
Location: Decatur, GA
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:14 pm
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I miss this anime short last night. But this looks like a watch for me.
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Ermat_46
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 725
Location: Philippines
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:41 pm
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Ryuji-Dono wrote: |
Ermat_46 wrote: |
Fenrin wrote: | Not really understanding the lack of enthusiasm for this project, it looks interesting and really beautiful and I'm digging the character style. This is the first time I've been this excited about an original anime in a while. |
Because the entire thing looks like one of those myriad of disposable Netflix original animes in the vein of B: The Beginning, Hero Mask and Sword Gai. |
Except B was actually good. |
Not good enough to linger into fandom's consciousness. Months after the show, there's literally no conversation, mention, nor seen anyone recommending this one. No mention on usual fandom spaces like reddit, 4chan, YouTube or even Facebook.
donhumberto wrote: |
Fenrin wrote: | Not really understanding the lack of enthusiasm for this project, it looks interesting and really beautiful and I'm digging the character style. This is the first time I've been this excited about an original anime in a while. |
Same here. Really like the artstyle a lot and it's the most promising anime original I've seen in a good while. It's a shame there's a big (or at the very least very vocal) part of the anime fandom that's always going to complain whenever there's some kind of western involvement in the production of any series (be it CR, Netflix, Toonami...) |
I really don't see this show being anything other than a tryhard Netflix-bait. Also, no one really complained when CR co-produced non-adaptations like A Place Further Than the Universe.
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FireChick
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Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 2392
Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:46 pm
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Damn, everybody's getting all up in arms over anime not meeting their impossible standards.
{Edit}: I edited your post. Leave out the insults moving forward. ~ Psycho 101
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2945
Location: Email for assistance only
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:52 pm
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Which standards have people mentioned that seem to be impossible?
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Actar
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 1074
Location: Singapore
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:18 pm
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Out of curiosity, how much is CR involved when it comes to these anime productions? I mean, they're still made by Japanese studios and air on Japanese TV, right?
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2245
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:21 pm
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Kinda' willing to bet that someone on the production side came across "chattel slavery" without realizing it's historical link and just wanted to make a cute, princess-esque main character. It's such a strangely specific use of the term that it feels like it was chosen deliberately by someone who liked the sound of the term without fully understanding what it actually meant. But Crunchyroll should absolutely change that description to something less disingenious, like "prostitution".
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4824
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:15 pm
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I know Toonami passed up on airing more One Piece because they wanted less long running shows on the block but also like One Piece is right there if they wanted to air a pirate anime. And there's even new dub episodes out now.
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Scion Drake
Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 941
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:22 pm
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Cardcaptor Takato wrote: | I know Toonami passed up on airing more One Piece because they wanted less long running shows on the block but also like One Piece is right there if they wanted to air a pirate anime. And there's even new dub episodes out now. |
Uh they passed up on One Piece due to a combination of low ratings & the license getting a price hike making it too expensive to compensate for the low ratings.
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