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EP. REVIEW: Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? III


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Kuzu



Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:34 pm Reply with quote
The fight was pretty damn amazing, but yea they really kind of downplayed the citizen's rallying behind Bell.

I have...somewhat mixed feelings about this finale; aside from the fact that the setup was uncannily similar to S1's finale, which I guess was the point judging by Hermes` comment about manipulation of the gods, but for everything that happened with this season what with questioning the humanity of monsters and their relationships in society and if its even right to kill them to begin with, and for that to just end with Bell concluding with the simple Shonen protagonist motivation of "I wanna be stronger" and not much else, kind of leaves me feeling....deflated? I guess I was expecting an actual answer but didn't really get one.

Feels like the show presented a problem that it didn't know the answer to, and just ended it in the most standard "heroic" way possible, albeit with the twist that Bell lost. But its stated outright that the status quo is back to normal and I'm like "uuuuhhh sure I guess?"


I dunno, I have to sit on this finale and reevaluate my whole feelings on this season. It definitely wasn't bad, but I don't really feel satisfied either. I know the story is ongoing, but still...
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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:58 pm Reply with quote
pip25 wrote:
Asterius moped the floor with him, even his argonaut ability failed (not sure why), and he only made it out alive because his opponent wanted to fight him again later.

This is something I'm willing to commend the series for.
I don't remember the specifics but the first season left a sour taste in my mouth. And the cause was that, while it was interesting since hard limits were placed on the MC, in the end it was another power fantasy and instead of overcoming proto-Asterius with lots of help or strategy, it was a "me, me, me" moment where he overcame the impossible by getting very angry and swinging very hard, rejecting any help so he cna prove how cool and strong he is.
IIRC this is when he got Argonaut, the win button, the magicla girl finisher, that signals his victory regardless of all else.

So seeing Argonaut activating, thinking "ah, I guess Asterius is dead" only for him to whack the skill out of Bell because he's just that much stronger, felt pretty good. Bell getting a long-term rival in the form of a xenos, the same one he previously unga-bunga'd to death, is a cool prospect.
It's like watching Precure and the finisher BGM NOT playing during the finisher, that's how you know you're witnesing something interesting.
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pip25



Joined: 22 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:07 pm Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
This is something I'm willing to commend the series for.

I agree that, in itself, the result of this fight could have been an interesting and unexpected twist. It's the unfortunate side effect of Bell succeeding to do so little this season overall that made me feel they were kicking him when he was already down by going this route.
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GhostD



Joined: 07 May 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:13 am Reply with quote
pip25 wrote:
Asterius moped the floor with him, even his argonaut ability failed (not sure why)


Argonaut is a charging skill that increases the power of whatever attack or magic Bell does when charging it. The longer the charge, the greater the power and damage. Think Megaman X. Bell charged his attack for only a few seconds (20 in the LN) so it severely lacked the power needed to overcome Asterius. On the other hand, if Bell had fully charged it (3 mins was the max at this point) then the fight could have ended differently especially with Asterius severely damaged by the fight's climax. In Bell's defense its not like Asterius is gonna stand there and wait for him to finish so he had no choice but to attack.
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pip25



Joined: 22 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:43 am Reply with quote
GhostD wrote:
Argonaut is a charging skill that increases the power of whatever attack or magic Bell does when charging it.

I see, thanks for the info. I guess this is one of those topics that were explained normally in the novels, but have been glossed over by the adaptation.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:18 pm Reply with quote
^
The exact time frames are mentioned in the novels, but exactly how it works - namely, that longer charge time = more powerful effect - I feel can be intuited just from what the anime has shown. Any of the previous times that Bell has been shown using Argonaut, he had a longer time to charge it up than he does here. While watching the battle, I was struck by how short the time in animation was between initiation and release this time, so I think a "he wasn't at full charge" interpretation from that is reasonable.

Yuvelir wrote:
How is Bell even alive and standing? Every hit that Asterius landed sounded like an explosion and either sent him flying or going through walls ala DBZ. And he landed quite a few of those.

Adventurers with Falna are far tougher than normal humans, and that only increases with level. A level 3 might merely be temporarily stunned by a blow that would kill a normal human. (Or, to put it in RPG terms, they have way more HP.)

Quote:
As for Hermes, things might have gone off-script but much as he whined and complained he still got the outcome he wished for: the xenos branded as regular dangerous monsters and Bell the hero protecting people from them (although I guess he didn't get enough credit for his liking).

There have been other times in the series where events manipulated by Hermes have exceeded his expectations, but this is the first time that his careful plotting has been totally upended. Even if the results ultimately came out in line with what he wanted, the method being outside of his vision threw him. That's a pretty big deal for a god used to being able to manipulate things the way he wants.
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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Adventurers with Falna are far tougher than normal humans, and that only increases with level. A level 3 might merely be temporarily stunned by a blow that would kill a normal human. (Or, to put it in RPG terms, they have way more HP.)

I guessed that, otherwise he wouldn't have survived that first wall.
I was thinking more about Dix. Not only because Asterius easily dispatched that guy wgo was several levels above Bell, tired as he might have been; but also because Dix's thrashing left Bell in far worse shape despite the beatdown itself being (visually at least) much lighter than Asterius'
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pip25



Joined: 22 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
The exact time frames are mentioned in the novels, but exactly how it works - namely, that longer charge time = more powerful effect - I feel can be intuited just from what the anime has shown.

I'd like to respectfully disagree. Way back in season 2, the reason why Bell doesn't simply use argonaut in every harder battle (even with its cooldown taken into account) caused some significant confusion among anime-only viewers.
It was then that I've read in viewer comments (from someone familiar with the novels) that argonaut needs a lot of time to activate. But if this newest piece of info I got just now is to be believed, even that actually turned out to be only half-true.
So not only do anime-only viewers fail to fully understand what is going on, but even those who have read some of the novels do not always fully grasp the exact details.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:14 pm Reply with quote
The exact circumstances under which Argonaut can be used are not much better-defined in the novels, either. The original implication seemed to be that it would only activate when Bell was at a disadvantage, but even that's been inconsistent; why didn't it trigger when he was fighting Phryne, for instance? (Or Ais in the last episode, for that matter?) Frustratingly, original writer Omori has left this point vague, I presume because that way Argonaut can be used for whatever dramatic purpose is needed.

Yuvelir wrote:
I was thinking more about Dix. Not only because Asterius easily dispatched that guy wgo was several levels above Bell, tired as he might have been; but also because Dix's thrashing left Bell in far worse shape despite the beatdown itself being (visually at least) much lighter than Asterius'

Remember that a Level 5 (Shakti) and multiple level 4s (including Ryu and Asfi) were not even able to put up a fight against Asterius in episode 7; Asterius could have easily killed them all. He also stood toe-to-toe with a powered-up Ais even after losing one arm. That he would be able to summarily crush a badly-wounded Level 5 like Dix would be expected.
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LawrenceEdo



Joined: 19 Dec 2020
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:01 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Princess_Irene"]
John the Dark Lord wrote:

... And it's also the root of the term "xenophilia", love for foreigners. I mean, sure, it's clear there will be lots of trouble for Bell and the monsters this season, but you said yourself that "xenos" means "stranger", so why look for another meaning for the name of that new race?


I wasn't looking for another meaning, I was pointing out the best-known use of "xeno" in modern English. (Sadly, people use xenophilia far less.) Trust me, I know both words and I'm current with the novels' official releases; I'm trying to write for anime-only fans as well as those who are LN readers, and spoiler[we're still at the "phobia" portion of the story.]"

@princess_Irene
I really dislike the way you're reviewing this anime. Why won't you write more about the episode and the topics in the episode? You did the same thing in episode 8 which had a lot of emotions in them but you kept writing about greek mythology and xenos this and xenos that. And thats fine but at least say something about how it made you feel!
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Nordhmmer



Joined: 11 Feb 2017
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:21 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
He [Asterius ] also stood toe-to-toe with a powered-up Ais even after losing one arm. That he would be able to summarily crush a badly-wounded Level 5 like Dix would be expected.



.
You've that reversed,Ais using her OP power tried to go toe to toe with Asterius.- Asterius being a untrained level 7.
After her sneak attack injured Asterius, he started to overpower her. Which is why Finn & Gareth intervened.


Argonaut requires one minute per level to be fully charged.
Bell used a 20 second Argonaut against Asterius,whereas a full charge would've required three minutes.

spoiler[(Anime left out that Bell leveled up due to this fight with Asterius,he's now lv 4.)]
[EDIT: Spoiler tags added for post-anime content.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 9366
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:42 pm Reply with quote
So I have another stupid question due to not being deeply invested in this series (I do like it; its details are just sort of transient and don't stick). When they talk about traversing through the dungeon levels, I've always pictured them going down, with higher numbered levels being deeper below the city. Is this wrong? Am I influenced by the idea of a dungeon being in the depths? I noticed the never-ending spire of the dungeon ascending to the heavens (and I presume the gods) at the end this time, and it made me wonder why adventurers don't go up, a la Aincrad. Smile Have I just not realized they've been going up all along, or is there a barrier preventing them or something?
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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 937
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
So I have another stupid question due to not being deeply invested in this series (I do like it; its details are just sort of transient and don't stick). When they talk about traversing through the dungeon levels, I've always pictured them going down, with higher numbered levels being deeper below the city. Is this wrong? Am I influenced by the idea of a dungeon being in the depths? I noticed the never-ending spire of the dungeon ascending to the heavens (and I presume the gods) at the end this time, and it made me wonder why adventurers don't go up, a la Aincrad. Smile Have I just not realized they've been going up all along, or is there a barrier preventing them or something?

It's like Geffen's tower. They're exploring the Geffenia dungeon below while the tower on top has other more controlled purpose.

Key wrote:
Remember that a Level 5 (Shakti) and multiple level 4s (including Ryu and Asfi) were not even able to put up a fight against Asterius in episode 7; Asterius could have easily killed them all. He also stood toe-to-toe with a powered-up Ais even after losing one arm. That he would be able to summarily crush a badly-wounded Level 5 like Dix would be expected.

My mention of their one-hit encounter was to establish how much more powerful Asterius is compared to Dix.
Which is how it surprises me that, while Bell was the former's ragdoll, the latter inflicted even more visible damage.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Nordhmmer wrote:
Argonaut requires one minute per level to be fully charged.

I'm really curious as to where you got this detail, as I have not seen this spelled out anywhere. (And I've read the novels up through 15.)

(And BTW, I added a spoiler tag into your previous post because that detail is not in the content covered by this season. That's not actually revealed until the beginning of book 12, whereas this series firmly cuts off at the end of book 11.)

Gina Szanboti wrote:
So I have another stupid question due to not being deeply invested in this series (I do like it; its details are just sort of transient and don't stick). When they talk about traversing through the dungeon levels, I've always pictured them going down, with higher numbered levels being deeper below the city. Is this wrong? Am I influenced by the idea of a dungeon being in the depths? I noticed the never-ending spire of the dungeon ascending to the heavens (and I presume the gods) at the end this time, and it made me wonder why adventurers don't go up, a la Aincrad. Smile Have I just not realized they've been going up all along, or is there a barrier preventing them or something?

No, the Dungeon is definitely descending. The tower is the cap for the Dungeon, as well as serving a variety of functions - administrative, commerce, meeting spaces (Denatus is held on one level), and even housing (Freya has what basically amounts to the penthouse on the top).
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:11 pm Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
Gina Szanboti wrote:
So I have another stupid question due to not being deeply invested in this series (I do like it; its details are just sort of transient and don't stick). When they talk about traversing through the dungeon levels, I've always pictured them going down, with higher numbered levels being deeper below the city. Is this wrong? Am I influenced by the idea of a dungeon being in the depths? I noticed the never-ending spire of the dungeon ascending to the heavens (and I presume the gods) at the end this time, and it made me wonder why adventurers don't go up, a la Aincrad. :) Have I just not realized they've been going up all along, or is there a barrier preventing them or something?

It's like Geffen's tower. They're exploring the Geffenia dungeon below while the tower on top has other more controlled purpose.

Key wrote:
Remember that a Level 5 (Shakti) and multiple level 4s (including Ryu and Asfi) were not even able to put up a fight against Asterius in episode 7; Asterius could have easily killed them all. He also stood toe-to-toe with a powered-up Ais even after losing one arm. That he would be able to summarily crush a badly-wounded Level 5 like Dix would be expected.

My mention of their one-hit encounter was to establish how much more powerful Asterius is compared to Dix.
Which is how it surprises me that, while Bell was the former's ragdoll, the latter inflicted even more visible damage.
The anime shows like 10% of how injured Bell is at any given point.
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