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EP. REVIEW: Higurashi: When They Cry – GOU


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silvershion



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:03 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:

Interesting detail when he wakes up in the hospital is that he has a neck brace on, despite him not having touched his neck even once as far as we saw.


That is interesting.

Now my biggest questions are 2:

1.- What happened to Tomitake in this timeline? His death was never confirmed.
2.- Why did the nurse spoiler[ which I assume is Takano Miyo] killed Keiichi? Is it because he saw the mystery people in Irie Clinic?
In the Onikakushi Hen, they tried to run over him and later they went to his house.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:28 pm Reply with quote
silvershion wrote:
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:

Interesting detail when he wakes up in the hospital is that he has a neck brace on, despite him not having touched his neck even once as far as we saw.


That is interesting.

Now my biggest questions are 2:

1.- What happened to Tomitake in this timeline? His death was never confirmed.
2.- Why did the nurse spoiler[ which I assume is Takano Miyo] killed Keiichi? Is it because he saw the mystery people in Irie Clinic?
In the Onikakushi Hen, they tried to run over him and later they went to his house.


1 is a big mystery, as for 2, spoiler[I'm pretty sure that isn't Takano, but a nurse who also happens to be a Mountain Dog spy. There was an anime-original arc in S2, one where Satoko survives the disaster and is taken to the hospital in Shishibone, and the nurse here looks an awful lot like the one there, the one that was heavily implied to be a spy since Satoko just so happens to mysteriously die while in the hospital's care. We don't know she killed him, one scream from Keiichi after he touches his neck is awfully vague.]

As for Takano, spoiler[I think something may have actually happened to her this loop. The sudden "remodeling" of the Irie Clinic is way too strange of an occurrence]
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Florete



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:36 pm Reply with quote
I've seen the original Higurashi seasons but I only remember the larger plot details, not the smaller stuff, so those extra observations are much appreciated.
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stilldemented



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:39 pm Reply with quote
I was expecting it all to hit the fan this episode. It also managed to paint the room red. Goodiness gracious. Shocked

So what I'm piecing together right now is that there's this local deity/spirit that possesses people and goes on a murder spree anytime someone starts digging too deep into Hinamizawa's history. That's probably not entirely accurate, but it would explain why the camera guy and Keiichi were singled out. It seems pretty clear that this isn't anything like Rena is actually a yandere or has a split personality. It sort of just looks like a possession that only occurs from evening through the night.

There's part of me that feels like the boy might also be a little crazed because my suspension of disbelief is a little shattered that Rena can stab Keiichi that many times without him just dying. She hit more than enough vital organs repeatedly. And she's dead and he's not. I wonder a little bit if a lot of that was all in his head and he beat her to death with a clock. The ending with the nurse seems to suggest it's a possibility. I'd have to go back and rewatch to see whether Keiichi ever scratched his neck since that seems to be some kinda tell-tale sign. Though I figure the fans were probably keeping a close eye out for things like that.

Couldn't tell you why Rika and Satoko ended up dead. The closest I've got is Rika might also be possessed and murdered Satoko since she had red eyes in episode 2. But I'm saying that while not really knowing anything about the series. There's a part of me that suspects Rika can't get possessed since she's got her own guardian deity looking out for her.

As an anime only, I do get something of an impression that there's a lot of little things that I am missing. Part of that is because this is just the first loop so I haven't really learned where I should place my attention, but there's also an annoying voice in the back of my head that reminds me that this is something of a sequel series more so than a remake, so I don't really know whether the show is going to fill in the blanks for me. I trust that it will, but I know that fans are probably running circles around anime-onlys such as myself right about now. Laughing


Last edited by stilldemented on Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 872
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:34 pm Reply with quote
stilldemented wrote:


There's part of me that feels like the boy might also be a little crazed because my suspension of disbelief is a little shattered that Rena can stab Keiichi that many times without him just dying. She hit more than enough vital organs repeatedly. And she's dead and he's not.


While it is a little ridiculous, it's certainly not impossible. There are real life examples of people having survived even worse than he did. There was a Japanese actress that was stabbed over 60 times by a crazed fan and made it through just fine. Granted, the knife he used was a little smaller, but the point stands. Plus it was by a fully grown man as opposed to a 14 year old girl, so no doubt he likely had the advantage in strength as well.

Implausible? Perhaps, but not impossible.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1944
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:20 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:


While it is a little ridiculous, it's certainly not impossible. There are real life examples of people having survived even worse than he did. There was a Japanese actress that was stabbed over 60 times by a crazed fan and made it through just fine. Granted, the knife he used was a little smaller, but the point stands. Plus it was by a fully grown man as opposed to a 14 year old girl, so no doubt he likely had the advantage in strength as well.

Implausible? Perhaps, but not impossible.


Part of me thinks the room literally drenched in blood could have been a side effect of Keiichi's spoiler[Hinamizawa Syndrome] in action, but I also like to interpret it as Rena also being dimly aware of previous loops and subconsciously stabbing Keiichi multiple times over, but only in one spot, so the damage wasn't as bad as it could've been. I definitely at least got the impression that Keiichi spoiler[died the same way he did in the first original loop--by clawing his throat out] either because of spoiler[the nurse possibly injecting him with the virus] or because spoiler[she somehow awakened his dormant syndrome and accelerated it due to the massive amounts of stress he was under.]

As for Rika and Satoko, my current hypothesis is that Satoko spoiler[also succumbed to her virus], but Rika spoiler[committed suicide]. That, or this was, as the police suspect, a murder-suicide. But I suspect it's also there to highlight how spoiler[Rika realized first-hand how different this series of loops will be from the last]. Right now, it's unclear if spoiler[she's come across a similar fragment before] or if this is totally new territory. Rika's talk with Keiichi suggested the latter to me, but I guess we'll see!
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2396
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:26 pm Reply with quote
Now if satoko spoiler[was level five, that explains her killing Rika, then killing herself] so this iancloser to the ps2 original arc, just bad ended. I AM really excited how the next arc is going to play out.
And the, this Will be two coeur, so se might get yo see the ushiromiya mansión again, it would be Nice if the way teenagers Rika dies is by falling of a ship during a storm.
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stilldemented



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:53 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
While it is a little ridiculous, it's certainly not impossible. There are real life examples of people having survived even worse than he did. There was a Japanese actress that was stabbed over 60 times by a crazed fan and made it through just fine. Granted, the knife he used was a little smaller, but the point stands. Plus it was by a fully grown man as opposed to a 14 year old girl, so no doubt he likely had the advantage in strength as well.

Implausible? Perhaps, but not impossible.


I'm aware this argument was posted on reddit. And honestly, as an argument, it just strikes me as a fan's kneejerk defense to a very benign criticism. I get where it comes from. It's a request by fans to maintain faith.

Obviously people survive stabbings. Obviously people have survived despite inexplicable odds. But most people don't. And it's hard to watch this happen and believe that it's a miracle this character survived when it's more reasonable that the story calls for him to survive this particular encounter for the sake of the story still to come.

And that's all assuming that he isn't an unreliable narrator of sorts.

It's not a showbreaker or anything like that. There are plenty of shows that have gone ham with its horror. But it will make people blink and recalibrate the suspension of disbelief. And that's okay. It's a natural response to a surreal moment. There's no real need to hunt out a defense for the show to keep people engaged.The hype train is running fine. Smile


Last edited by stilldemented on Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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db999



Joined: 23 Dec 2017
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:25 pm Reply with quote
I really enjoyed this episode and it was cool seeing it end in a completely different place than the original did. Although I have one question about the episode. Are we sure that the scene where Rena was stabbing Keiichi really happened? My theory is that what we saw was different than how it actually played out. My theory stems from something I noticed during that particular scene. Did anyone else notice the weird filter and camera movements over that scene? The outline of the screen and the character outlines seemed a bit blurry to me. So I don't trust that scene. The other things that point me to my conclusion are that no one is willing to tell Keiichi if Rena's status, and with Oiishi asking him about the incident. I think that in a later episode we'll get a look back at this scene and discover that all was not as it seemed.
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Yttrbio
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Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:31 pm Reply with quote
stilldemented wrote:
I'm aware this argument was posted on reddit. And honestly, as an argument, it just strikes me as a fan's kneejerk defense to a very benign criticism. I get where it comes from. It's a request by fans to maintain faith.

Obviously people survive stabbings. Obviously people have survived despite inexplicable odds. But most people don't. And it's hard to watch this happen and believe that it's a miracle this character survived when it's more reasonable that the story calls for him to survive this particular encounter for the sake of the story still to come.

And that's all assuming that he isn't an unreliable narrator of sorts.

It's not a showbreaker or anything like that. There are plenty of shows that have gone ham with its horror. But it will make people blink and recalibrate the suspension of disbelief. And that's okay. It's a natural response to a surreal moment. There's no real need to hunt out a defense for the show to keep people engaged.The hype train is running fine. Smile


? I didn't think anyone was particularly rude or hostile towards you, they just disagreed with you. No one is asking you to do anything. What's this "hunt" or "kneejerk defense" you're talking about?

Seeing the response of people who have no familiarity with the franchise is refreshing. I was worried that the show leaned a bit too much into people understanding the gist of how the show works to undersell the mystery, but it looks like folks are responding basically the same way they did to the first series in terms of speculation.
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stilldemented



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:21 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
? I didn't think anyone was particularly rude or hostile towards you, they just disagreed with you. No one is asking you to do anything. What's this "hunt" or "kneejerk defense" you're talking about?


I don't really feel like I said anything that would give the impression that I thought that. Confused . So now we're all confused. Really this just serves as a fantastic example of how text alone cannot convey tone. I wasn't aware that those were considered loaded terms. Anime smile + sweatdrop
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1944
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:00 pm Reply with quote
Honestly, I'm almost entirely convinced this is going to be to Higurashi Kai what spoiler[Rebellion] was to spoiler[Madoka Magica]. I just can't see a connection from Higurashi to spoiler[Umineko] that doesn't end poorly. I'm hedging my bets that we're going to see the infamous spoiler[Logic Error Bernkastel referred to] play out here; for me, that term always conjured images of a magical version of the dreaded spoiler[infinite loop in programming].
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:48 am Reply with quote
My reaction to the Rena v Keichi stabby scene was the same as stilldemented's. It seriously challenged my sense of verisimilitude that she passed away and he survived that encounter. Honestly, my suspension of disbelief had already started to seriously fray when Keichi had the strength to continue beating Rena with the clock after he'd taken a number of stab wounds in places where vital organs cluster. It felt like the scene was made gratuitous in an attempt to heighten the horror of it, but I think it took that so far that it became a bit of a parody of what it wanted to be.

That's my only criticism, though. I was largely happy with the episode, and have been increasingly pleased as the new series gets into the mysterious, horrific "murder lolis" (as someone put it previously) elements of Higurashi. I am maybe not as engaged or creeped out as I was by the original series, but my already knowing the basics of the plot and story structure is a significant disadvantage to Gou, there -- I can't really fault the new series for my now knowing what to expect in a way I never did with the original series (separately, I do think Gou's art feels a bit less apropos, but only a bit).

Unfortunately, also like a few other posters, it has been so long since I watched the original Higurashi and Kai that most of what we learned about the details of the plot there is fuzzy for me. It is coming back rapidly, albeit in pieces. It helps that Gou has pushed us into the thick of the plot much more quickly than the original two series' slow burn (which seems to support that this is a genuine sequel, or at worst a highly alternative take on later arcs of, the original two anime series).
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Birriaman



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:03 am Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Quote:
As for the Satoko-Rika murder-suicide, my thought is that it's likely Rika went to Keiichi's house to see if he went on his murder spree, found he and Rena, called an ambulance, took the knife, and went back and murdered Satoko and then herself to move on to the next loop.


I don't think the knife used to kill Rika and Satoko was the same Rena used. The sentence was worded a little ambiguously, but I just think they were saying Rika and Satoko were killed the same way by the same weapon.

I highly doubt Rika killed Satoko. First off, for her to even consider that, circumstances would need to be extremely dire, like spoiler[Satoko being at Level 5 of the virus]. And even if she did feel the need to do that, she'd make sure it was as quick and painless a death as possible. Mion specifically said they were stabbed in the neck repeatedly, which is way too brutal to really call a mercy kill.

What I think happened is that Rika killed herself with the knife, Satoko witnessed it, and she in turn killed herself in hysteria using the same knife.


Most probably this. At this point there is absolutely no reason for Rika to murder Satoko since it’s too early for other “aspects” of the story to come into play, but there’s always the possibility of a new third-party.

Also, I see many comments regarding the stabbing, which pretty much shows you who’s more familiar with the previous show and who’s not. As soon as that started and Keiichi survived the first 2 stabs, I knew spoiler[he was seeing things.] The fact that at the hospital no one talks to him about Rena and how the episode ended spoiler[(with the clawing)] just cemented that and was very satisfying. I was watching this episode with headphones on my cell in a dark room at 2am... it scared the hell out me.
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MesousaGaby



Joined: 16 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:28 pm Reply with quote
"As for the Satoko-Rika murder-suicide, my thought is that it's likely Rika went to Keiichi's house to see if he went on his murder spree, found him and Rena, called an ambulance, took the knife, and went back and murdered Satoko and then herself to move on to the next loop."

...WHAT?

Even as a prediction, this just feels way too...awkward. Rika killing someone else just to fulfill a loop is honestly really off-character. Isn't she supposed to, you know, prevent it?

Not to mention the fact that Keiichi being alive after being stabbed that much, yet Rena dies after just a sight hit to the table is one of the dumbest things I've seen in Higurashi. Not as dumb as the one OVA that turned it into an ecchi, now that was pure cancer, but...Keiichi literally had plot armor.
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