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EP. REVIEW: Higurashi: When They Cry – GOU


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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2174
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:27 pm Reply with quote
THIS IS NOT A DRILL PEOPLE I REPEAT THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!
PLEASE PROCEED TO YOUR APPROPRIATE PORTION OF THE WHEN THEY CRY FANDOM. SPOILERS AND META WORLD THEORY CRAFTING FOR ALL RYUKISHI07 WORK WILL NOW BEGIN HAPPENING IN EARNEST IN THE COMMENTS!

Click all spoiler tags in this forum AT YOUR OWN RISK from this point onward.
spoiler[That is totally featherine right. We have actual featherine in higurashi in addition to bernkastel right?!?

If that is the case then is satotoko lamdadelta and not Takano like we have all believe for over the past decade?!

Does this mean that we are getting the creation of bernkastle in this anime, and the backstories for the witches and the creation of an over arching when they cry universe story line?

Was this all just a set up for the next part of when they cry 5 and/or an umineko anime reboot? ]

So I am very surprised we spent a whole episode where rika and satoko only really talked to each other 1 time. I mean yes they did actually argue about the problem, but I was expecting a lot more and it to have a larger effect if you get what I mean.

Also Satatoko thinks that rika ratted her out, and got her sent to the schools prison (I AM SORRY WHAT!!) has a panic attack/Meltdown over it and never brings it up to rika again?

It was super cool to see older versions of the rest of the cast, I really would have liked to see punishment game keichi but I understand why they didn't want to.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 872
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:41 pm Reply with quote
Honestly I'm not sure we should take spoiler["Featherine"] at face value here. There's several discrepancies with the one we're familiar with, and overall there's nothing actually confirming her identity. Moreover, 07th Expansion VNs are known to include characters that are heavily based on characters from previous works in personality and appearance, but have no actual connection. I wouldn't jump the gun yet. For all we know it could be some new form of Oyashiro-sama

As for the solitary confinement cells, I would like to say I'm particularly surprised, but after everything we've seen and heard about St. Lucia's in the original and Umineko, I'm actually not super shocked.
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gsilver



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 419
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:19 am Reply with quote
*jail cells*
And a whole *ward* of them?

What kind of place is this?

Now I kinda want to read that cancelled Shion St. Lucia's manga spinoff...
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Calsolum



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 863
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:25 am Reply with quote
well... that... was an episode...

AND WE STILL HAVEN'T GONE BACK TO THE EPISODE WHERE SATOKO PULLED OUT A GUN.

Obviously, the flashback story isn't over so I'm just losing it cause I wanna go back to that cliffhanger, I swear if ep21 ends with them finally getting caught up to ep17... I'm just gonna cry.

I must say it's about time one of Satoko's traps spoiler[actually drew blood] from someone. I've always brushed it off as silly anime antics but like any of those traps had a chance of getting nasty, what if someone trips and falls at the wrong angle or on 'something' that wasn't intended to be there. Nothing wrong with childish pranks and all that but it just takes a tiny miscalculation to go horribly wrong. Hell, imagine if Satoko had spoiler[damaged the Chandelier(because it was old) and the whole thing came crashing down. Could kill or seriously injure someone.]
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Sven Viking



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 819
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:26 am Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
Also Satatoko thinks that rika ratted her out, and got her sent to the schools prison (I AM SORRY WHAT!!) has a panic attack/Meltdown over it and never brings it up to rika again?

Being vocal about abuse isn’t really Satoko’s thing.

I’m pretty ready to take certain things at face value regarding the witches, to be honest. Mysteries that initially seem inexplicable and inscrutable turning out to have simpler explanations than expected is another common theme in these stories.

Regarding possibly leading into a new Umineko adaptation: I hope so.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2174
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:01 pm Reply with quote
Sven Viking wrote:
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
Also Satatoko thinks that rika ratted her out, and got her sent to the schools prison (I AM SORRY WHAT!!) has a panic attack/Meltdown over it and never brings it up to rika again?

Being vocal about abuse isn’t really Satoko’s thing.

I’m pretty ready to take certain things at face value regarding the witches, to be honest. Mysteries that initially seem inexplicable and inscrutable turning out to have simpler explanations than expected is another common theme in these stories.

Regarding possibly leading into a new Umineko adaptation: I hope so.

I mean that is in character for her, but its still odd how she and rika aren't talking only for them to be able to pull off acting like nothing has happened at the reunion. Also I was expecting the doctor to be at least mentioned this episode. Since he is paying for the two of them to be there, and should know about satokos grades.

That said I totally buy rika just falling in deep into her ideal fantasy life that she has always wanted, and not risking it for anyone else.

one really odd thing though about the episode that we will probably get explained. why was their horn inside the iron madien esqe thing, and where are all the other old "ritual" devices
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Sven Viking



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:38 pm Reply with quote
I know what you mean, but I think it’s actually a plausible response. It’s exactly what Satoko wants so she doesn’t want to do or say anything to ruin it even if it is only temporary, and Rika’s in a kind of similar position in that she wants to get on well with Satoko as long as it doesn’t cause problems for her. Talking things over will result in awkward complications in the short term, but ignoring everything makes everyone temporarily happy.
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HandofBobb



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:12 pm Reply with quote
Man, I kept waiting for that van to go careening off the mountainside,
just like in the other series when they're bicycling back to town and get hit by Truck-kun...

spoiler[ I mean, either way, I knew when Satoko was like "you guys go on without me, I'm just gonna look around town a bit" that was gonna be the last she saw of the others- but I was totally expecting it to be because they all died in some horrible accident ]
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Sven Viking



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 819
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:15 am Reply with quote
HandofBobb wrote:
spoiler[ I mean, either way, I knew when Satoko was like "you guys go on without me, I'm just gonna look around town a bit" that was gonna be the last she saw of the others- but I was totally expecting it to be because they all died in some horrible accident ]

The way Mion drives, it could still happen on the way to Angel Mort. Satoko spoiler[refuses the deal, finds out they (or at least Rika) died, then goes back to the storehouse. ]
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Viberum



Joined: 16 Apr 2016
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 pm Reply with quote
I’m thinking if Satoko went with the others to Angel Mort and met Shion, the two would bond over how horrid St. Lucia Academy. It would be really cool to have Shion share her story to Satoko about why she left.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 872
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:06 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Satoko's direct interaction with Featherine/alt version of Hanyu might suggest that Lambdadelta really is witch!Satoko.


What happens from here on out is anybody's guess, but Im like 99% certain this is the one thing that won't. Umineko makes it pretty clear that Lambdadelta existed before the events of the original Higurashi, so unless there's some loophole, I don't think it's possible for her to be Satoko.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2174
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:25 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Quote:
Satoko's direct interaction with Featherine/alt version of Hanyu might suggest that Lambdadelta really is witch!Satoko.

What happens from here on out is anybody's guess, but Im like 99% certain this is the one thing that won't. Umineko makes it pretty clear that Lambdadelta existed before the events of the original Higurashi, so unless there's some loophole, I don't think it's possible for her to be Satoko.

And yet the umineko fandom has always widely assumed that bernkastle is connected to rika, and that the "villain of higurashi" Takano Miyo was connected to lamddadelta.
I mean bernkastle is shown in higurashi and even interacts with Takano.
So everyone just assumed that it was Takano... and now higurashi gou is acting like it is Satoko instead.

Either one of them I would say still has that problem I would say.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 872
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:34 pm Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Quote:
Satoko's direct interaction with Featherine/alt version of Hanyu might suggest that Lambdadelta really is witch!Satoko.

What happens from here on out is anybody's guess, but Im like 99% certain this is the one thing that won't. Umineko makes it pretty clear that Lambdadelta existed before the events of the original Higurashi, so unless there's some loophole, I don't think it's possible for her to be Satoko.

And yet the umineko fandom has always widely assumed that bernkastle is connected to rika, and that the "villain of higurashi" Takano Miyo was connected to lamddadelta.
I mean bernkastle is shown in higurashi and even interacts with Takano.
So everyone just assumed that it was Takano... and now higurashi gou is acting like it is Satoko instead.

Either one of them I would say still has that problem I would say.


Umineko does strongly imply a connection between Takano and Lambda, but not that they are the same person.
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 756
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:45 pm Reply with quote
I for one think that expanding the witch lore connecting Higurashi and Umineko would be really cool and interesting ... honestly, it makes total sense to me that Rika and Satoko are essentially Bernkastel and Lambdadelta (or the witches are some part or version of them or vice versus).
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KitKat1721



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 413
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:21 am Reply with quote
jenthehen wrote:
I for one think that expanding the witch lore connecting Higurashi and Umineko would be really cool and interesting ... honestly, it makes total sense to me that Rika and Satoko are essentially Bernkastel and Lambdadelta (or the witches are some part or version of them or vice versus).

I think that's the direction it's going, which I think could be neat and wouldn't actually require Umineko knowledge (that story is super confusing by summary alone if you haven't read it), since it would more just be a bridge between them in the loosest sense. I never thought Lambdadelta = Takano the same way Bernkastel is clearly meant to at least allude to Rika. Her attitude felt more in line with Satoko anyway, so I always thought it was just a weird blend of the two for no real reason other than a cool nod to returning fans who loved Higurashi. There's no explicit tie-in that makes reading one necessary for the other, really just fun allusions. The author did say at one point years ago that spoiler[Bernkastel was "the manifestation of Rika's despair,"] but honestly its always been best to take stuff like that with a big grain of salt.

That being said, its now really hard to ignore some stuff from Umineko with all this new knowledge:

spoiler[ - There's a Bernkastel quote from Umineko Ep. 2 that has stuck with me for a while with Gou: "You are now just like I was in the past, when I was imprisoned inside Lambda's world. Shut inside a labyrinth of cruel fate, tormented by a witch, in a manner of speaking. ...I am a witch who was born from there."

There's also this Bern quote to Ange: "Beatrice's game board in 1986 is quite perfect. ...I had planned on bringing you that ideal Fragment as a present today, but I still can't find it. ......This is a very firm fate. I haven't seen the likes of it since the time I fought Lambdadelta." (We also know Lambda lost that fight).]


If we aren't getting a spoiler["Bernkastel's birth after defeating Satoko's hell loop/game board...] I uh really don't know where its going then.

ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
What happens from here on out is anybody's guess, but Im like 99% certain this is the one thing that won't. Umineko makes it pretty clear that Lambdadelta existed before the events of the original Higurashi, so unless there's some loophole, I don't think it's possible for her to be Satoko.

I feel like with the whole fragment thing, timelines really don't matter that much tbh. Heck, going by the calendar in Gou, the events of Umineko have already long happened. Yet it hasn't really turned most people off the idea.

Also, I thought it was funny that the new ED sounds way more like a typical Umineko credits song than anything from Higurashi, but that last scene really makes the similarity obvious.
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