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EP. REVIEW: Talentless Nana


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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 826
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:14 am Reply with quote
Anneyuno1 wrote:
it has a lot of merit to have created a series (perhaps the only one of its type) that goes against self-insert fantasies.


As someone who is completely caught up on the manga, it really just only further proves the point the further you go, but not in ways you expect.
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Actar



Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 1070
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:14 am Reply with quote
Okay... not sure why every series has to turn into a battleground of gender politics, but I'm watching the series because I enjoy anime that feature a battle of wits. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 196
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:27 pm Reply with quote
harminia wrote:
Animegomaniac wrote:
I don't watch Friday the 13th movies to see Jason kill teen after teen, I watch them to see the Final Girl finally stop him.


Good for you but a lot of people watch horror movies because they want to see people die. That doesn't discredit your opinion, and likewise your opinion doesn't discredit theirs. If you don't like it, that's fine. Don't watch the show. Don't interact with the people you think are "sick" because they enjoy it. Clearly this show, and it's fanbase, are not for you.

Feel like people are reading too much into an anime that's basically just a trashy suspense story.

I enjoy Talentless Nana but man, it's really not that deep.


Agreed. Its basic plot is fairly simple - the world building may be complex (maybe one might call it convaluted), but other than that it's the equivalent of horror/suspense fluff.
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bennyl



Joined: 06 Apr 2019
Posts: 122
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:21 pm Reply with quote
arkhangelsk wrote:
And when the estimated casualties are in the millions, the calculus of pre-emptive strikes based on probability changes.


That is the same justification given for preemptive nuclear war and political assassination. At least with walter White and Light, the story is about how they descend into monstrosity. They start out with a somewhat noble mission and stray further and further away from that. In the case of Michael Corleone or Tony Soprano, it is about their struggle against equally bad people. This show is what would happen if a high school michael Corleone started killing his high school age rivals before they ever did anything to him or anyone else. At the very least there has to be the possibility of comeuppance to make a show about an unrepentant antagonist watchable. So far, the other shoe to drop just revolves around a creepy dude petting her hair.
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Anneyuno1



Joined: 20 Jul 2019
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:45 pm Reply with quote
Seagloom wrote:
Anneyuno1 wrote:
it has a lot of merit to have created a series (perhaps the only one of its type) that goes against self-insert fantasies.


It doesn't. It really, *really* doesn't. All it does is trade one cliché for another. The review's reading of the first episode is interesting and I like it; but it is unfortunately inapplicable to this series in the long run. That will not be evident in the material this season covers, however.


What do you mean? I hope you do not mean that the boy returns, but this time Nana becomes friends with him, it would be disappointing, it would be the same as a tsundere that behaved hostile with the protagonist at the beginning so that in the end she would fall in love with him anyway.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 826
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Anneyuno1 wrote:
Seagloom wrote:
Anneyuno1 wrote:
it has a lot of merit to have created a series (perhaps the only one of its type) that goes against self-insert fantasies.


It doesn't. It really, *really* doesn't. All it does is trade one cliché for another. The review's reading of the first episode is interesting and I like it; but it is unfortunately inapplicable to this series in the long run. That will not be evident in the material this season covers, however.


What do you mean? I hope you do not mean that the boy returns, but this time Nana becomes friends with him, it would be disappointing, it would be the same as a tsundere that behaved hostile with the protagonist at the beginning so that in the end she would fall in love with him anyway.


No, that's not what happens. (The following is material that won't be covered this season so, just a warning) spoiler[He is alive, but he's been groomed to be the same kind of killer Nana is by the same group that's backing her, effectively serving as her replacement once she defects, and his first action is framing her for one of his murders. The exact circumstances haven't been made clear however because the reveal of his survival only happened a few chapters ago.]

bennyl wrote:
At least with walter White and Light, the story is about how they descend into monstrosity.


Light declares himself God in the first episode. He didn't "descend into monstrosity", he was scum from the beginning of the show. It just so happens he gets even worse. Nana has literally been told upfront that these kids have the potential to, either directly or indirectly, get millions of people killed. She has no reason to think that she *isn't* doing the right thing. Meanwhile Light's actions were fueled by his narcissism and later downright sociopathy, not any real belief that he was actually doing good. That was just his delusion.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:32 pm Reply with quote
Anneyuno1 wrote:
Seagloom wrote:
It doesn't. It really, *really* doesn't. All it does is trade one cliché for another. The review's reading of the first episode is interesting and I like it; but it is unfortunately inapplicable to this series in the long run. That will not be evident in the material this season covers, however.


What do you mean?


Putting aside spoilers: a good comparison would be Watamote (aka No Matter How I Look at It, It’s You Guys' Fault I’m Not Popular!). Its first seven volumes were about a girl with crippling social anxiety who was chronically incapable of forming positive social relationships with her classmates. This was pretty out-of-the-ordinary stuff for anime at the time (most shows about "characters who have trouble making friends" typically devolved pretty quickly into shows about "characters who are oblivious about everyone having a crush on them").

It would be roughly two years after the show finished airing that the manga would enter its "second year field trip arc", a storyline that would lay the groundwork for the title's slow (and incredibly well-done, in my opinion) transformation into - for lack of a better description - a yuri version of My Teen Romantic Comedy Is Wrong, As I Expected.

Today, Watamote is arguably one of most consistently well-written high school harem comedies on the market, featuring some of my favorite modern iterations of the tsundere and yandere character archetypes. However, the anime adaptation only covered the story's first four volumes... which, when viewed in isolation, could very easily be interpreted as a direct defiance of the same anime tropes and stereotypes that it now pulls off so well.

In short, some stories tend to get more "normal" and "stereotypical" as they go on, and often these changes occur well after the material covered by their single-coeur anime adaptations. It's not always a bad thing, though. Whether it's good or bad in the case of Talentless Nana very much remains to be seen.
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Seagloom



Joined: 04 Nov 2017
Posts: 197
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:22 am Reply with quote
Anneyuno1 wrote:
What do you mean? I hope you do not mean that the boy returns, but this time Nana becomes friends with him, it would be disappointing, it would be the same as a tsundere that behaved hostile with the protagonist at the beginning so that in the end she would fall in love with him anyway.


Providing specifics is impossible without spoilers. If you are *really* curious, I will add a little to what ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote along with my reasoning. If you care at all about watching blind, I urge you not to read this. Keep following the story and come to your own conclusion.

spoiler[As ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote, it turns out Nanao survived and was recruited. Unsurprisingly, he is livid with what happened to him. The reason I think the story trades one cliché for another is that instead of making Nanao the plucky all-loving shōnen protagonist, he becomes the vengeful seinen antihero. You probably know the trope: seemingly decent guy who was betrayed by those he trusted returns stronger and edgier than ever to make everyone that wronged him regret their actions. This is an extremely common male power fantasy in LNs and manga at least as old as Fist of the North Star. Perhaps even older--I am no historian. A few exceptions aside, these days one usually only sees lady characters lean on this trope in "Villainess" stories with little to no edge and a lot more focus on romance.]

spoiler[While Nana is still the protagonist, she eventually has a change of heart about the Talented after an event I will not spoil since it may be this season's climax. Nana eventually concludes Nanao is likely alive. Being remorseful for her past actions, she wants to reunite and presumably make amends. I do not think there is any indication of romance at this time. However, I do think the trajectory is pointing toward her trying to save him considering he is being used as she was. That said, it does hew closely to a romance trope. Time will tell where it actually goes. Regardless, you can probably see why I do not consider this series some brilliant feminist subversion of self-insert power fantasies.]

On a side note, the manga is available to Crunchyroll subscribers and updates monthly if anyone wants to read ahead.

BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
In short, some stories tend to get more "normal" and "stereotypical" as they go on, and often these changes occur well after the material covered by their single-coeur anime adaptations. It's not always a bad thing, though. Whether it's good or bad in the case of Talentless Nana very much remains to be seen.


It comes down to taste, I guess. WataMote is an interesting example. As often as I see its current direction lauded, I also often see fans of its old cringe comedy lamenting the loss of a unique and relatable premise. (I feel indifferent either way.)

In the case of Talentless Nana, I think the shift in direction was a good move. The story had been growing stale until Nana received a spate of character development. Then a few mysteries were unraveled and the story went in a fresh direction that revitalized it. Of course, I had no real expectations for the series which allowed me to roll with the changes. Someone that does may be disappointed a la a number of WataMote fans.
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:42 am Reply with quote
Enjoying the show but unlike death note I find myself dwelling on ways for Nana to slip up and be noticed. I guess I am less sympathetic to the murder of clueless children over heinous criminals even though both are simple killings in the long run. The opening shows some of the classmates having dark sides and I dont know if this is meant to be Nana's warped point of view or some items we are to discover to make her more into the viewers sympathies.

It might be a result of the opening. That while effective in showing her deception for the first kill didn't ally my point of view to hers. So I hope the series can get me more into her perspective. As it was I was a little frustrated that the healing boy didn't find the explosion more suspicious then he did.

I wonder if the writers know that Nana means grand mom for a lot of families with european background.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 3626
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:28 am Reply with quote
Cryten wrote:
I wonder if the writers know that Nana means grand mom for a lot of families with european background.


In Japanese, it's usually just "Seven". Some times it means something, sometimes it's just a name that's picked because people like the repeating sound.

Here, it means "7" or "Inverted L". [sigh].
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 1505
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:55 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I really have to wonder what Photographer's deal is because he raises a lot of questions with his actions that I'm not envisioning satisfying answers though.

Though my biggest question is how he uses his power and how often he can use it.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:09 am Reply with quote
I was down for silly superpowered school fluff, and was completely surprised by the twist...and I’m still not sure I like it. A mission to kill unsuspecting kids makes Nana hard to root for, and the silly comedy that still exists is completely jarring in tone and doesn’t work.

I’m also questioning Nana’s methods and especially the order of her kills. Wouldn’t it have been extremely useful to keep a power neutralizing kid wrapped around her finger to help her get the more dangerous or harder to kill kids? And Michiru’s healing powers shorten Michiru’s life—so just have her use them a lot, instead of killing her outright? The “alien” lie is great, but putting the kids against one another would be useful, too.

The character I do like is Kyoya. He’s sympathetic, he’s smart and deductive. I’m also getting a vibe that he’s autistic—struggles with socialization, has specific interests, has stims (sensory tics—in his case, stroking silky hair). He seems like a good kid overall, albeit misunderstood.

Or is he a “kid”?

ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
It should be noted that the specific wording in JP Kyoya uses to describe his talent is much closer to "immortality" than "invincibility". He's more than just extremely resilient, death is a flat-out impossibility for him, not to mention he's also unaging, which explains some of his quirks. Unfamiliar with modern slang, into retro games and manga, suggests playing with a weird doll as an alternative, his archaic way of talking (which can't be entirely reflected in English, but the subs do have him refer to Nana as "kid", which isn't someone the same age would do) - it serves to hint at the fact that he's at least quite a bit older than he looks.

This idea intrigues me!
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Violet Park



Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:12 am Reply with quote
Nanao's murder was well done and Kyoya has a more or less credible limitation even if he is inmortal, but the story is shooting itself in the foot by including such OP skills as time traveling and future sight, especially this early on. It doesn't feel like Nana is smarter than everyone else, just that she is lucky everyone else is an outcast or an idiot.
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kgw



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 674
Location: Spain, EU
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:39 am Reply with quote
I think I am dropping this. So far we have a coldblooded assessin killing kids who, so far, had not killed anyone (but they might*!) because some voices in the dark told her is fine and good. And for some reason we should laugh or cheer at her.

It's alright if someones likes Talentless Nana.I simply prefer monsters who recognize what they are.

* Anyone might kill anyone in some moment, that makes it alright to kill any of us?
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:11 am Reply with quote
Hmm I can sympathise KGW. Unless it ramps things up with the setting I am considering the same thing. I dont get pleasure over a wolf killing a bunch of hapless sheep. I might see where it goes with post punk photo dude but if it remains about how cute girl pulls it over hapless fools might have to move to just reading the reviews.
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