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EP. REVIEW: Talentless Nana


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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 860
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:07 pm Reply with quote
TexZero wrote:
Episode 4: Timestamp 18:40 "What's all this about...The enemies of humanity don't kill me. Why's the new Leader going to kill me instead ?"

Shocking i know but i wasn't speaking out of my ass when i said he explicity fingered her multiple times in his death. For someone with the ability to see the future that cannot be changed he (and the writers) sure has a way of forgetting these things.

That's a kinda dishonest way of taking something WAY too literally.
He is taunting her. He is saying "I know you're a murderer, and I know you're going to try to murder him".
Of course his first assumption was that he was goign to die, no reason not to considering how grim the situation seemed to him, but he wasn't dead yet in that photo. He was going to be strangled by Nana with a jumping rope and that was a fact. The simplest thing to happen is for the strangling to work, but further (tampered) evidence showed him flipping the situation around around and Nana dying instead. Why not believe it at face value when there was no contradiction?
He may make assumptions about the photos that might or might not be true and rectify himself later, but what he does stress time and again and has been absolutely true is that whatever is shown in his photos will come to pass exactly as depicted.
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TexZero



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:52 pm Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
TexZero wrote:
Episode 4: Timestamp 18:40 "What's all this about...The enemies of humanity don't kill me. Why's the new Leader going to kill me instead ?"

Shocking i know but i wasn't speaking out of my ass when i said he explicity fingered her multiple times in his death. For someone with the ability to see the future that cannot be changed he (and the writers) sure has a way of forgetting these things.

That's a kinda dishonest way of taking something WAY too literally.
He is taunting her. He is saying "I know you're a murderer, and I know you're going to try to murder him".
Of course his first assumption was that he was goign to die, no reason not to considering how grim the situation seemed to him, but he wasn't dead yet in that photo. He was going to be strangled by Nana with a jumping rope and that was a fact. The simplest thing to happen is for the strangling to work, but further (tampered) evidence showed him flipping the situation around around and Nana dying instead. Why not believe it at face value when there was no contradiction?
He may make assumptions about the photos that might or might not be true and rectify himself later, but what he does stress time and again and has been absolutely true is that whatever is shown in his photos will come to pass exactly as depicted.


Except it's not dishonest the first photo he shows nana is of her pushing the first kid off the cliff. The second when he says "Why is the leader going to kill me" is of him being strangeled to death.

It's not disingeious. The writers could have easily had that say "Why are you attacking me" if he thought or knew otherwise. They clearly didn't. Infact they double and triple down on the accusations of Nana killing him well into episode 5. It only changes when they attempt to swerve the audience with the planted evidence. This is sloppy writing and wouldn't have happened if the character themself didn't magically forget how their own abilities work. But ya know people gotta justify asspulls in writing somehow.
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:06 pm Reply with quote
Its missing the point though. He knows he is going to be attacked, he knows she is a serial killer. He thinks its bad for him. But he doesnt know he is dead. Just in a struggle that could result in his death.

Also I think if you want to really examine this moment you should compared the photo to what actually happens. The photo shows nana attempting to place the coil around his neck, still loose and far apart. What actually happens is he throws her off as soon as she trys, causing the moment in the photo with no threat of strangulation.

I agree that he is fatalistic about possible death, which is why he confronts her saying she's gonna kill him, but as the next episode points out he is not sure. Which is why the obvious switch photo was his path out. He had that question remaining that he openly discussed in the quote I gave you. Will he survive?

I really wish we would move on about this though. Getting stuck on this is just aggravating and pointless to the overall show. We know now that the show isnt about the drama of the background setting, instead its about putting nana in serious spots and her thinking and manipulating her way out of things. The plot will contrive new crisis's every episode for her. Even if the opposing detective is as thick as bricks. Its a killer hunts her prey show.
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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:21 pm Reply with quote
Reality's writing must be so damn sloppy, because people keep using words despite not meeting their literal meaning in the most absolute way - some even use them to mean the opposite, the criminals!
And what about those that keep changing their opinions and assumptions after learning new information, the poorly written fools!

Or in other words that don't require understanding irony, not only are you splitting hairs (this means fixating on small details irrelevant to the whole, not separating one hair from another) by hyperfocusing on the choice of one word and its meaning, you're doing so about a TRANSLATION. The moment you want to be hyperliteral with a choice of words in a translation and affix the difference of meaning to the original intent you have already lost.
But even ignoring that, if you didn't notice the photo guy is extremely flippant and actively tries to be rude and extreme. He isn't going to use softer terms to what the photo shows just in case she doesn't kill him, he wants to get under her skin (not literally) so he directly accuses her of being a murderer, past and future.

And even ignoring ALL THAT, that power grants him peeks into the future, not wisdom or further insight. He has resigned that whatever happens in the photos will happen, but that doesn't mean that his reading of the photos will be 100% accurate, he made a mistake interpretating a photo (and a honest one at that: the girl who pushed the missing boy off a cliff was strangling him, the most likely outcome was obvious) and when he gained new information (his would-be assassin laying dead on the floor wkth the selfsame rope around her neck) he corrected course. Which is something that people do.
Which of course didn't change much, just made him feel safer and more confident. He went on to do what he would do anyway but now with his guard lowered.

There might be signs of "sloppy writing" but you're barking at the wrong tree here (not literally).
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Probablytomorrow



Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:45 pm Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
Which of course didn't change much, just made him feel safer and more confident. He went on to do what he would do anyway but now with his guard lowered.

Actually, I think it had a greater effect than that. Since until then he didn’t know whether he was going to live or die after that specific instant, he probably would have eventually made a ruckus and showed everyone what was going to happen, so that they could save him before she finishes him off. But her fake photo gave him reason to believe he’d live no matter what. So his fatalistic slacker nature continued unabated, he never bothered asking for help, and no one else saw the incriminating photos.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:22 am Reply with quote
TexZero wrote:
It's not disingeious. The writers could have easily had that say "Why are you attacking me" if he thought or knew otherwise.

But you're completely ignoring the sequence of events. In Ep 4, he didn't yet think it might be otherwise, he just leapt to the conclusion that he'd die.

Episode 4: 18:40 "What's all this about...The enemies of humanity don't kill me. Why's the new Leader going to kill me instead?" Taunting her, but probably still going with his original interpretation at that point.

Episode 5: 3:55 "I was still alive in that photo, remember?" He's been reevaluating things since his previous statement.

4:15, "Oh, but wait. We don`t know what happens after she attacks me. Am I gonna fight back? Or am I gonna let Nana kill me?" Realizes he doesn't know how it will turn out.

7:48 ::hours later, finds the fake photo.:: Now thinks he knows how it turns out.

So contrary to your claim that "it only changes when they attempt to swerve the audience with the planted evidence," he clearly changed his mind about what the photo might mean before that.
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Yuvelir



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:41 pm Reply with quote
I wonder what Nana has come up with. For once we didn't hear her internal clues, we just saw what look like an expensive bag that might be a red herring, a badge and a baseball... all out of her reach.

Anyway, I really can't share that sentiment of sympathy towards Nana. While she has some remnants of basic human decency, she's still willingly dismissive of that of her "peers", wallowing in her indoctrinated hatred in a way that too closely resembles reality. So dead or not, I ultimately want to see her defeated and proven wrong. Because while her intricate plans are interesting to watch being drafted and played out, she's ultimately on the wrong side.
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TexZero



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:15 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
TexZero wrote:
It's not disingeious. The writers could have easily had that say "Why are you attacking me" if he thought or knew otherwise.

But you're completely ignoring the sequence of events. In Ep 4, he didn't yet think it might be otherwise, he just leapt to the conclusion that he'd die.

Episode 4: 18:40 "What's all this about...The enemies of humanity don't kill me. Why's the new Leader going to kill me instead?" Taunting her, but probably still going with his original interpretation at that point.

Episode 5: 3:55 "I was still alive in that photo, remember?" He's been reevaluating things since his previous statement.

4:15, "Oh, but wait. We don`t know what happens after she attacks me. Am I gonna fight back? Or am I gonna let Nana kill me?" Realizes he doesn't know how it will turn out.

7:48 ::hours later, finds the fake photo.:: Now thinks he knows how it turns out.

So contrary to your claim that "it only changes when they attempt to swerve the audience with the planted evidence," he clearly changed his mind about what the photo might mean before that.


...No it still only changes when they attempt to swerve the audience.

He outright states fate cannot be changed, he states she's going to kill him several times.

Then he gets a fake out photo which if he didn't magically forget how his own powers worked he would have know was a fake and that his fate was still sealed like the previous students.

Additionally your interpretation of his phrase "Am i going to let Nana kill more or Am i going to fight back" could just as easily be read as "Do i surrender to fate or Do i attempt something futile".

But you all have fun with this shows various levels of stupid.
You're not going to convince me that the show doesn't have the internal consistency of diarrhea when the only consistent is that the superpower they all share is stupidity including Nana.
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:48 am Reply with quote
Agree to disagree. Move on. The episodes been out for like 3 days and no ones discussing it but Yuv. I was hoping to read peoples thoughts after I dropped the series on ep 5. (Personally I just felt like the series is going for thrill killing. I dont like shows like that. I prefer battle of the wits shows.)
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:52 am Reply with quote
TexZero wrote:
He outright states fate cannot be changed, he states she's going to kill him several times.

Then he gets a fake out photo which if he didn't magically forget how his own powers worked he would have know was a fake and that his fate was still sealed like the previous students.

He hasn't forgotten. He's stating his conclusions. He has not seen any photo, real or fake, in which he is dead. He ackowledges he's not dead in the only photo showing the attack on him. Which leaves him free to reconsider his interpretation, while still fully believing all the photos he has seen will always come true.

Moving on...
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Florete



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:34 am Reply with quote
TexZero wrote:
...No it still only changes when they attempt to swerve the audience.

He outright states fate cannot be changed, he states she's going to kill him several times.

Then he gets a fake out photo which if he didn't magically forget how his own powers worked he would have know was a fake and that his fate was still sealed like the previous students.

Additionally your interpretation of his phrase "Am i going to let Nana kill more or Am i going to fight back" could just as easily be read as "Do i surrender to fate or Do i attempt something futile".

But you all have fun with this shows various levels of stupid.
You're not going to convince me that the show doesn't have the internal consistency of diarrhea when the only consistent is that the superpower they all share is stupidity including Nana.

He never forgot how his power works and there was nothing inconsistent about how his power works. The pictures will come true. That's it. And that happened. Every picture came true (except Nana's dupe, obviously). Him saying Nana was going to kill him was just him interpreting what appeared to be about to happen in a photo, but he wasn't dead in the photo. The show even uses the time on his watch to emphasize how the image in the photo will definitely come true because Nana changed the time on his watch and he pointed out that it didn't matter because Nana would attack him when his watch said it was 10:00, as the photo showed, regardless of whatever the time actually was.

You're focusing too much on what he said. What he believes isn't part of his power. His interpretation of the photos doesn't matter, all that matters is that what is seen in the photo will happen.

This show absolutely has issues in its writing but this is not one of them.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:55 am Reply with quote
I think it's time some of you agree to disagree and move on. This is going in circles.
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:47 am Reply with quote
Episode 6: I don’t think Nana said that she leaves the dead in peace as a joke, I think she genuinely believes she has the moral high ground, which made me roll my eyes, because Nana is the last person to claim moral integrity when she’s murdering everyone else.

Ugh, I just wish media would stop claiming characters have “split personality disorder.” There is no such thing, and the association with Dissociative Identity Disorder reinforces negative, false stereotypes and assumptions that very real people with that disorder, who are survivors of early childhood trauma have to live with.

https://www.mentalhealthtoday.co.uk/blog/teach-me-well/its-not-just-a-film-the-damaging-effects-of-misrepresenting-dissociative-identity-disorder

Quote:
In some online safe spaces for those with this disorder, the damage goes far beyond internet mockery. After some friends and family of those with DID have watched the film, there have been stories and desperate pleas from a person diagnosed being isolated from friends, thrown out of home by family, losing their job at work, and even having their children reported to social services with nothing more than the previously nice neighbours watching this so-called “just a film”.
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Probablytomorrow



Joined: 04 Aug 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:52 am Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
I wonder what Nana has come up with. For once we didn't hear her internal clues, we just saw what look like an expensive bag that might be a red herring, a badge and a baseball... all out of her reach.

She spent a long time looking at what seemed to be Tsunekichi's necklace. She might have deduced Yuka's weakness.


I’m expecting Nana to get her due comeuppance down the line, based on the fact that the show consistently frames her as a villain with spooky scary lighting and private smirks of evil. I don’t think the show is painting over the fact that her killing the Enemies of Humanity is itself inhumane.
Maybe what’s making her a sympathetic enough character for me to follow despite all that is fear. Ever since she said the Talented are the Enemies of Humanity in episode one, I’ve been taking that to mean this killing spree is motivated by simple mortal fear of superpowers. It’s a part of the horror/suspense that morality is getting thrown aside for the sake of survival.
So despite her actions being WILDLY morally unjustified on multiple levels, it’s interesting to watch her face her fears head on.
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Yuvelir



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:58 am Reply with quote
Probablytomorrow wrote:
She spent a long time looking at what seemed to be Tsunekichi's necklace. She might have deduced Yuka's weakness.

Oh right, that was his necklace. I assumed it was a bag's strap and that she wanted to use it to strangle her, but that would be a pretty idiotic plan.
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