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NEWS: Anime Viewership on Netflix in U.S. is 'Up Over 100%' in 2020


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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 4140
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:57 pm Reply with quote
donhumberto wrote:
NeverConvex wrote:
I'm personally more interested in whether a show has the stylistic hallmarks of anime than whether a Japanese studio was involved in its production. Seems more useful to reserve "anime" to refer to the style than to the country of origin, to me.

+ 1000
But for some reason a lot of anime fans seem unable to accept this. It's pretty much like saying that only American bands can play rock because Rock was invented in the US, and what other rock bands play around the world can't be considered rock because they are not American... a pretty narrow-minded and almost racist attitude if you ask me...
Rocks a genre of music, the Anime equivalent to that argument would be saying something can't be Mecha unless it comes from Japan. This is like saying Detroit Style Pizzas are Italian cuisine. Anime is just a shorthand that westerners use for Japanese animation.

You know you are allowed to like Blood of Zeus even if it is not an Anime. there is no law prohibiting you.Netflix only call it that as a marketing tool. Though oddly the character design looks more like it came from a 2D Dreamworks film, than the usual cliché design they use.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:31 pm Reply with quote
I mean, it doesn't really say much about simulcasting if their only 2 examples are a movie and an American TV series. Neither of those have anything to do with simulcast anime.

Likewise, "up 100%" could very well mean they now have 2 viewers now instead of 1. A hyperbolic example, of course, but companies and PR releases use weasel words rather than actual numbers for a reason.
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db999



Joined: 23 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:30 pm Reply with quote
Honestly this whole debate on if we want to classify these Netflix shows as “Anime” is just like the sub vs dub debate from back in the day. It’s a relatively new thing that shows being created in the US with a certain style of animation is being referred to as anime by the marketing departments of various steaming sites. These shows like Castlevania and Blood of Zeus aren’t new, but they haven’t really been marketed in this way for a long time. I think just like the sub vs dub debate eventually in 20-30 years the debate will eventually die down and this will really just be a fringe debate.

Personally, I don’t care where a show or a movie was made. If it looks like anime and feels like anime I’m going to call it an anime regardless of whether or not it’s made in Japan. I personally think it’s just really reductive and another form of gatekeeping. What does it matter if American or International countries outside of Japan are calling shows anime or not? Does it really affect or offend people so much that other people have different definitions of what they consider anime? If Netflix wants to name all of these animated shows they’re making Anime it’s fine by me. The only thing that should matter is this one question. Is the show good or not? And personally, if Castlevania and Blood of Zeus are anything to go by these Netflix Anime are in good hands. Sure they’re not for everyone and I would like to see them do more genre’s but this is the early days for this and eventually we probably will start to see Netflix do anime with more genre’s.
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fantaselion



Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:32 pm Reply with quote
db999 wrote:
Honestly this whole debate on if we want to classify these Netflix shows as “Anime” is just like the sub vs dub debate from back in the day. It’s a relatively new thing that shows being created in the US with a certain style of animation is being referred to as anime by the marketing departments of various steaming sites. These shows like Castlevania and Blood of Zeus aren’t new, but they haven’t really been marketed in this way for a long time. I think just like the sub vs dub debate eventually in 20-30 years the debate will eventually die down and this will really just be a fringe debate.

Personally, I don’t care where a show or a movie was made. If it looks like anime and feels like anime I’m going to call it an anime regardless of whether or not it’s made in Japan. I personally think it’s just really reductive and another form of gatekeeping. What does it matter if American or International countries outside of Japan are calling shows anime or not? Does it really affect or offend people so much that other people have different definitions of what they consider anime? If Netflix wants to name all of these animated shows they’re making Anime it’s fine by me. The only thing that should matter is this one question. Is the show good or not? And personally, if Castlevania and Blood of Zeus are anything to go by these Netflix Anime are in good hands. Sure they’re not for everyone and I would like to see them do more genre’s but this is the early days for this and eventually we probably will start to see Netflix do anime with more genre’s.


Your putting allot of words in peoples mouths, they're not "offended" by this, its just that Netflix is reporting that "anime" is "up over 100%" and so people are like "but those numbers are basing off of things that are and aren't "technically" anime, thus its kinda like "is anime really doing well on netflix?" and then we get this debate.
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scowler



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:44 pm Reply with quote
The pandemic has probably caused Netflix's viewership of a wide variety of genres and niche content to increase by 100%.

That being said, we can see from Netflix's anime-related announcements over the last 18 months that they are plowing serious $$$ into licensing anime. I don't see them losing steam on this any time soon.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:55 pm Reply with quote
scowler wrote:
The pandemic has probably caused Netflix's viewership of a wide variety of genres and niche content to increase by 100%.


Scowler, It's not only anime that is getting more Netflix's viewership in the US. Live-action Foreign-language TV shows/dramas on Netflix amongst US audiences have also seen a big increase too according to a Deadline Hollywood article. and I'll quote the article:

Peter White of Deadline Hollywood wrote:
Finally, as Netflix continues to ramp up its international commissioning strategy, it’s clear that English-language viewers are interested in watching shows with subtitles. The Platform, Barbarians and France’s Rogue City were the most popular foreign-language shows, while it saw a big jump in Korean drama, up 100% in the U.S. with Kingdom’s second season and The King: Eternal Monarch becoming its most popular favorite K-dramas.


So it's not only anime. I guess people are branching out beyond Hollywood. Nice to see people watching anime and non-English foreign TV dramas.
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Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:50 am Reply with quote
Everyone's a prescriptivist. Rolling Eyes
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Mm-17



Joined: 18 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:20 am Reply with quote
Guy it's simple, the word "anime" became synonymous to explicit, gory, deep and serious animation aimed for adults thanks to shows like Akira, Ghost in The Shell etc, so Netflix are using it to differentiate their shows from other family friendly cartoons.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:00 am Reply with quote
Mm-17 wrote:
Guy it's simple, the word "anime" became synonymous to explicit, gory, deep and serious animation aimed for adults thanks to shows like Akira, Ghost in The Shell etc, so Netflix are using it to differentiate their shows from other family friendly cartoons.

Japan has not had monopoly on adult animated stuff, history of adult American works are aplenty from since Fritz the Cat in the 70s, nor is there a lack of TV series(Family Guy etc)...
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Yttrbio
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Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:12 am Reply with quote
Yes, we know the argument, but it didn't "become synonymous," Netflix wants to make it synonymous. To just pull 4 ongoing reviews from this site: Is Love Live anime? How about TONIKAWA? Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear? Sleepy Princess in the Demon Castle? Netflix says no. Is that not the kind of racist exclusionary gatekeeping that those of us who see value in a word having a definition are being accused of?

It's a word, and words have meanings, because they're being used to communicate. For those of us interested in the broad diversity coming from the Japanese animation industry, we're losing a word. That means that when we tell people "yes, we like anime," Netflix has changed what we're communicating. It's like the 90s all over again, where it will be perceived as being into blood and gore and edgy stuff.

So yeah, I guess I'm a bit grumpy that Netflix says "now you have to describe your hobby as 'animation from Japan'" and everyone seems to shrug and take their side, as if wanting words to be defined in some way is stupid to care about for normal people, but totally fine and unassailable when done by a corporation for marketing purposes.
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Errinundra
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:21 am Reply with quote
There's money to be made from that word, so Netflix aims to appropriate it.

Oddly enough, to a Japanese speaker, "anime" is a general term for animation regardless of country of origin.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 4140
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:48 am Reply with quote
db999 wrote:
Honestly this whole debate on if we want to classify these Netflix shows as “Anime” is just like the sub vs dub debate from back in the day. It’s a relatively new thing that shows being created in the US with a certain style of animation is being referred to as anime by the marketing departments of various steaming sites. These shows like Castlevania and Blood of Zeus aren’t new, but they haven’t really been marketed in this way for a long time. I think just like the sub vs dub debate eventually in 20-30 years the debate will eventually die down and this will really just be a fringe debate.
The worst dubs made today are about on par with the better dubs made 20 years ago, and much better than the dubs made 30 years ago, as well as it being a choice on VHS between dub or sub. Which is the reason why the debate is an mostly pointless now. The what is an Anime debate is a completely different kettle of fish.
db999 wrote:
What does it matter if American or International countries outside of Japan are calling shows anime or not? Does it really affect or offend people so much that other people have different definitions of what they consider anime? If Netflix wants to name all of these animated shows they’re making Anime it’s fine by me. The only thing that should matter is this one question. Is the show good or not? And personally, if Castlevania and Blood of Zeus are anything to go by these Netflix Anime are in good hands. Sure they’re not for everyone and I would like to see them do more genre’s but this is the early days for this and eventually we probably will start to see Netflix do anime with more genre’s.
You ask like no one has ever explained it, in fact it's always asked as if no one has ever given reason, are the people who explain it just ignored. I would love to say we should come to some understand, where any piece of animation outside of Japan can be called Anime, and we adopt a new shorthand for Japanese animation. But then we would probably end up having this happen all over again, where someone will argue that a American made show is [insert new word here]. As for the quality, they could better than every Anime made since 1963, it's still completely irrelevant.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:23 am Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
You ask like no one has ever explained it, in fact it's always asked as if no one has ever given reason, are the people who explain it just ignored. I would love to say we should come to some understand, where any piece of animation outside of Japan can be called Anime, and we adopt a new shorthand for Japanese animation. But then we would probably end up having this happen all over again, where someone will argue that a American made show is [insert new word here]. As for the quality, they could better than every Anime made since 1963, it's still completely irrelevant.

That's a good take on this. It seems there's 3 different definitions of anime floating around, the original Japanese meaning comprising of all animation both domestic and foreign, the common western definition of animation originating from Japan, and the third which Netflix seems to use here, 'explicit, gory, deep and serious animation'.

Outside of the vhs-period of anime when the miniscule selection of imports we actually got skewed the perception of the stuff, the third definition has always been shadowed by the former two. A lot more on the point would be for Netflix to simply say 'animation' is on the rise, but for marketing reasons they're trying to appropriate the word 'anime' towards their preferred definition of it, which at best can only be used to describe a certain subset of anime...
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:41 am Reply with quote
Please remember, that for the purposes of ANN
:
Quote:
According to Anime News Network publisher, Christopher Macdonald, "On Anime News Network, we define anime based on the origin of the animation. If it is primarily produced in Japan, it is anime. It should be clear, that by adhering to a definition that defines non-Japanese animation that mimic common anime styles as 'not anime,' Anime News Network does not endorse the notion that these 'anime-style' works are in any way inferior to animation produced in Japan. "


Apparently for the purposes of Netflix the definition is different.
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CatSword



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:50 pm Reply with quote
I know approximately no one who has watched Blood of Zeus and I don't care to meet them. Give me stats on actual anime, please. How many people watched Beastars? Great Pretender?
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