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NEWS: Anime Viewership on Netflix in U.S. is 'Up Over 100%' in 2020


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ThrowMeOut



Joined: 10 Oct 2018
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:48 pm Reply with quote
CatSword wrote:
I know approximately no one who has watched Blood of Zeus and I don't care to meet them.


I watched the first episode of "Blood of Zeus." I'd describe as a bland Castlevania knockoff that's lacking that show's wit, strong writing and likable characters, though maybe it gets better after episode one. Also when it comes to the argument on whether something is anime because of stylistic choices or geographical location, is irrelevant because Blood of Zeus is neither. It does not look or feel like anime. Someone compared it to old Dreamworks designs and I would agree with that.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:42 pm Reply with quote
db999 wrote:
Honestly this whole debate on if we want to classify these Netflix shows as “Anime” is just like the sub vs dub debate from back in the day. It’s a relatively new thing that shows being created in the US with a certain style of animation is being referred to as anime by the marketing departments of various steaming sites. These shows like Castlevania and Blood of Zeus aren’t new, but they haven’t really been marketed in this way for a long time. I think just like the sub vs dub debate eventually in 20-30 years the debate will eventually die down and this will really just be a fringe debate.

Personally, I don’t care where a show or a movie was made. If it looks like anime and feels like anime I’m going to call it an anime regardless of whether or not it’s made in Japan. I personally think it’s just really reductive and another form of gatekeeping. What does it matter if American or International countries outside of Japan are calling shows anime or not? Does it really affect or offend people so much that other people have different definitions of what they consider anime? If Netflix wants to name all of these animated shows they’re making Anime it’s fine by me. The only thing that should matter is this one question. Is the show good or not? And personally, if Castlevania and Blood of Zeus are anything to go by these Netflix Anime are in good hands. Sure they’re not for everyone and I would like to see them do more genre’s but this is the early days for this and eventually we probably will start to see Netflix do anime with more genre’s.


You know that reminds me, 2 weeks ago, I was watching a video essay from Kenny Lauderdale on Youtube (anyone familiar with Kenny Lauderdale?) on that topic about identifying anime and "what is anime"?

Kenny Lauderdale brought up some interesting point about Japanese anime that doesn't look like anime at all. I mean for example, there's the Pingu in the City from 2017 which doesn't look anything like a anime, but it still considered a anime because it was done by Japan. Heck, I was watching an episode of Thundercats (the 1985 original, the one animated by the Japanese animators that would later worked for Studio Ghibli), and I noticed the animation of the human characters in that episode looked more "anime" (by 1980's anime design standard) then American animation that was made at that time. So this is where people would debate if Thundercats from 1985 would be labeled as "anime" because of the animators connection to Studio Ghibli and also the way Thundercats animation looked different from other American animation at that time. What about Nutcracker Fantasy, that's considered an anime despite being a stop-motion animation, and oh the studio that did Nutcracker Fantasy also was the same studio that did a lot of Rankin-Bass's stop motion "Animagic" Christmas TV specials like Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer, Jack Frost, The Life and Adventure of Santa Claus, and etc.... Does that mean Rankin-Bass's stop motion are now have to be re-categorized as anime because of the studio's work with Rankin-Bass and Nutcracker Fantasy? Oh Takeo Nakamura, the director who handled Nutcracker Fantasy also was an animator for Rankin-Bass's Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town.

So yes, the definition of anime get confusing and blurred when you watch Kenny Lauderdale's video in full detail.

Also one of Netflix's original animation, The Idhun Chronicles looks a lot like a anime, it's fluidity and animation movement looks "anime"-ish. But here's the problem, it wasn't done by Japan and no Japanese studio was involved doing the animation. This was all done in Spain, and if you looked at the animation, it looks almost fluid like a Japanese animation. I found about The Idhun Chronicles on Netflix a few days ago, and also found out this Spanish-"anime" was on Netflix since September of this year, and this slip under the radar for a lot of anime fans (including on ANN).

How did anime fans and ANN not took notice of The Idhun Chronicles when it arrived on Netflix? How did this Spanish "anime" slip under the radar from anime fandom and ANN? Why did The Idhun Chronicles not cause anime fandom to discuss what's should be considered anime?

That's exactly why Kenny Lauderdale's video essay about "what is anime?" is very important for new fans and long-time anime fans (like me) to watch.


Last edited by mdo7 on Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 410
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:54 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
You know you are allowed to like Blood of Zeus even if it is not an Anime. there is no law prohibiting you.Netflix only call it that as a marketing tool. Though oddly the character design looks more like it came from a 2D Dreamworks film, than the usual cliché design they use.


I'm sure there's some deeper motivation involved in trying to lump western animation in with anime, like 'anime' being more acceptable to like as an adult than 'cartoons', the same reason why Netflix uses it as marketing term, but I personally never understood why fans themselves need a show they like to be considered anime. I like the DCAU but I would never try to say Justice League Unlimited is an anime or anything.

Otherwise, I'll echo that I'd like to see actual statistics for actual anime, not a PR puff piece.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 3234
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:39 pm Reply with quote
I'm fine with just calling it all cartoons instead of having discourse about what anime really means every five months.
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WikiSonic



Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:19 pm Reply with quote
ThrowMeOut wrote:

I watched the first episode of "Blood of Zeus." I'd describe as a bland Castlevania knockoff that's lacking that show's wit, strong writing and likable characters, though maybe it gets better after episode one. Also when it comes to the argument on whether something is anime because of stylistic choices or geographical location, is irrelevant because Blood of Zeus is neither. It does not look or feel like anime. Someone compared it to old Dreamworks designs and I would agree with that.

This is the crux of the issue. The argument would actually have some merit if these shows truly did look like anime, but they don't. And people who can't tell the difference shouldn't be the ones defining what is and isn't anime. It seems like to these people that hand-drawn, stylized animation with maybe some adult themes automatically equals anime, which as a regular anime viewer seems crazy to me. Not to mention that animation isn't just about art style—it's also about the way things are animated, which no one seems to ever mention. I don't even need to judge based on art style. I can tell by the composition, coloring, direction, and animation techniques that these shows are clearly not anime. It's almost like these western studios are using western animation styles and techniques, and a layman taking a single look and declaring that these shows "look like anime" doesn't mean a whole lot.

There's also the simple fact that whenever I watch an anime, the title is in Japanese, the credits are in Japanese, the characters are speaking Japanese—they even feature Japanese people and take place in Japan from time to time! To ignore that is to strip away the cultural significance from anime, which is pretty messed up in my opinion. Especially when it's being done by a corporation for cynical marketing reasons.
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VerQuality



Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 114
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:03 pm Reply with quote
I think this debate is starting to get close to the level of "champagne needs to be made in France, otherwise it's just sparkling wine" territory. Which is actually a pretty close comparison, since the whole reason Champagne created the CIVC to protect their name for their sparkling wine was that they felt their unique, regional specialty was being drowned by a sea of imitators. I think that Netflix's move to label any adult-aimed animation as anime means a similar attitude should be adopted: "it's not anime unless it's from japan, otherwise it's just sparkling animation." This isn't to diminish the efforts of those making sparkling animation, but to recognize that there is some unique quality about the animation made in Japan.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 3292
Location: Here!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:18 am Reply with quote
The naming convention is a purely business move. Years of “adult animation” being either South Park or the traditional “fat dad” sitcoms meant that anything labeled an adult cartoon would be considered such. Case in point, the WWII series The Liberator used a new form of rotoscoping called Triscope to make its production feasible (and saved millions) but the second the producers heard “animation” they thought it was going to look like Family Guy.

The ethics of such a move are another matter.
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 496
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:39 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:

Also one of Netflix's original animation, The Idhun Chronicles looks a lot like a anime, it's fluidity and animation movement looks "anime"-ish. But here's the problem, it wasn't done by Japan and no Japanese studio was involved doing the animation. This was all done in Spain, and if you looked at the animation, it looks almost fluid like a Japanese animation. I found about The Idhun Chronicles on Netflix a few days ago, and also found out this Spanish-"anime" was on Netflix since September of this year, and this slip under the radar for a lot of anime fans (including on ANN).

How did anime fans and ANN not took notice of The Idhun Chronicles when it arrived on Netflix? How did this Spanish "anime" slip under the radar from anime fandom and ANN? Why did The Idhun Chronicles not cause anime fandom to discuss what's should be considered anime?


Because The Idhun Chronicles got involved in a very serious problems regarding their voice acting in the original European Spanish version. Almost everyone in Spain and Latin America HATES the original voice track because almost all the cast is voiced by people who doesn't know a damn thing about voice acting, to the grade most people prefer to hear the English dub over the original language track.

That's right: The original acting is SO BAD that even Spaniards, who normally doesn't like to hear English dubs, let alone American ones, preferred to switch to the English one because it was much better than the original Spanish language one.
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lumclaw



Joined: 09 Jun 2010
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:09 am Reply with quote
Collective or collaborative productions complicate matters. The American and Japanese staff were inseparable to series like Mighty Orbots.

Is a show still anime, in the rare event a foreign company acquires the intellectual property rights? I was under the impression the Voltron producers own a greater portion of Beast King Golion than the original creators...

Personally though I take a rather different view. Many shows are more commercials than anime. In particular 12 or 13 episode adaptations that don't bother trying to hide they're too short to possibly meaningfully cover the source material.
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