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Biggest Badass Forum Tournament


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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:13 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
And btw....a Sgt Slaughter reference Tony? Jesus you're showing your age man. Then again, so am I by getting it and having watched him lol.

You're only a year older than me. 1 of 5 things any American kid born in the '80s should know are: He-Man, G.I. Joe, Ninja Turtles, Karate Kid, or the World Wrestling Federation.
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Hikari14



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:38 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
For starters let me be clear this tournament is about fun. People are expected to be honest with their votes and vote for who they think is the best option in a matchup. If I think anyone is throwing votes just to get ahead I will step in. I just want to be clear with everyone now. We're going on the honor system here so don't abuse it. In year's past mini-game participants were required to post who they thought would win BEFORE the tournament began. Brackets would go up and they had to ahead of time pick who they thought would win. I'm making things easier this time around but it does mean people need to be honest with their votes. Please don't throw votes just to "win".

As for this particular matchup actually Sanosuke can shrug off damage. He is the fist to fist fighter in the group. Which in itself is badass as he always is ready to dive into a fight head on and first before anyone else. He doesn't care how strong his opponent is, he wades right in with the goal of winning the fight. As the series progresses he learns more and more techniques that help rise his prowess in fights. He learns how to shrug off damage and blows that would take down most normal fighters. He also learns a technique to "counter" damage to his body by attacking his own body. He hits in the opposite spot of his opponent to "cancel" out the energy of the blow so his body takes no damage. Basically punching the same spot but from the other direction so his energy cancels out the kinetic energy of the incoming attack. Obviously this is in real life utter bs, but this is not real life lol. Beyond his powers he also definitely has the swagger and attitude of a badass. He's boastful, cocky to a degree, throws himself right into a fight to protect others without a second thought, and never backs down.

Power wise sure Reiner would win. But again this isn't about power. Not solely anyways. I think the abilities, or power, of the character is only 1/2 of the equation. The other is about attitude, swagger, confidence, how they act in a situation, etc. I think it's HOW they use their powers that helps determine their badass ratio. In that matchup I would give it to Sano over Reiner. Once I get my votes up tomorrow or Wednesday I plan to vote for him over Reiner.


Maybe normal attacks, but can he shrug off multiple ballista-bomb hybrid weapons going off at the same time?

And if we're talking about attitude, well, I've got something to say in that department as well.

Spoilers for anime/manga/final season

From evaluation
Quote:
Reiner Braun. He possesses great mental and physical fortitude. His comrades trust him deeply.


He was a big brother figure for most of cadets. Even the main character looked up to him, as he says in the dubbed version:

Quote:
...I wished I could have been half as strong as you. You were my hero.


He also 'inherited' some qualities from his deceased friend and leader, Marcel, after he was devoured. Including Marcel's willpower and inner strength.

But there is more.



As someone who contemplated doing this more than once, I can testify that it takes willpower to be able to resist the desire to just do it. So for those saying that Reiner is only because of his powers and is a wimp without any willpower otherwise, you're wrong. So very very wrong.


Last edited by Hikari14 on Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:16 am Reply with quote
I'd like to suggest that everyone take the time to look further into characters they may not be familiar with or may not be favorites before voting. Obviously we will all have different opinions as to which character is more badass than the other, and that's totally OK, but it's a bit disheartening to see votes cast simply because someone hasn't seen a particular show. I just voted against three of my own nominations for characters that I knew next to nothing about before this tournament started. Take Alita vs. Moutoku Sousou for example. Alita is one of my favorite anime characters of all time, and I nominated her. I knew nothing about Moutoku before this contest. Nada. Zip. Zilch. It would have been really easy for me to just vote Alita and be done with it but I don't believe it's fair to cast a vote if you don't know anything about who you are voting against. Thus for every one of these matches if I don't know the characters involved I've been reading up on them online, watching videos, looking at pics, etc, so I can be informed. And it's not just a matter of fairness or considering other people's views, it's also fun. Like I mentioned in the nomination thread this is a great way to get introduced to titles that I've never seen before and might find interesting. I've already added several shows to my future watch list.

Regarding Calathan's comment about Pyscho Diver being largely forgettable: in terms of the overall story I totally agree. I don't consider it a particularly noteworthy title. But if we're looking for characters with a badass attitude I think that Busujima is right up there at the top of the mountain. He has so much swagger that it's almost off-putting. Give this three minutes:
https://youtu.be/_rZpCqid1b8?t=352

And I've got to stick up for my boy Leon McNichol (and Priss Asagiri in a future bracket) too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yayl8_tCX88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs0X-jCCsgQ
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Maybe normal attacks, but can he shrug off multiple ballista-bomb hybrid weapons going off at the same time?

No, but again simply judging a character by this standard is akin to making votes based on the powers alone. Which really doesn't cover the whole "badass" mentality on their own. That's where attitude is so important to me within this tournament. Simply shrugging off all that damage is nice, and would get him further in a "powerful" character tournament. Here though, simply having powers is only half of it. HOW they use them is as important, if not more so. For example I'd argue Eren is more badass with how he just throws himself into fights in his titan mode. How he has lots of power AND that kick ass and take names mentality to go along with it. If you feel Reiner is the more badass of the two then awesome, vote for him. For me personally though, I just find him lacking in this matchup.

Another 2 prime examples are why I did not believe Saitama belonged here despite his immense power. He has a few badass moments here and there, but largely is just "there" in terms of personality. Bang has more of the baddass mentality and swagger than Saitama. Another example is comparing Luffy to either Zoro or Sanji. Or how about Goku and Vegita.

Which I must say for the record we are using the ACTUAL DB Vegita for this tournament, not the DBZ Abridged version. I better make that clear or Vegita would steamroll this competition with his badassery. In his mind anyways lol. That's a joke btw. Seriously though, watch DBZ Abridged it's hilarious and makes the show much better in places.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:56 pm Reply with quote
I have to say Akumachef brings up a good point. For those not familiar with a character/show take a little time to check them out. Ask for opinions and help. You'll be surprised how it might change your opinions. Again, this is something that happened many times in tournaments before. I also want to stress none of the arguments are personal attacks on people (which won't be tolerated) or their enjoyment of a show and character. So please everyone don't take things personally.

I can honestly say I was quick to write of Leon when I saw who I had him matched up against. I mean I nominated Bang after all. However, good points have been brought up to Leon's credit. In terms of powers he'd be one of the weakest on this list. But this isn't about powers and powers alone don't make you badass. An absence of them also doesn't strip away your badass quotient. There is something to be said for a guy who is the embodiment of this song. Leon is like the 80's compacted into 1 person lol.


Did you get that reference old man Tony?! =p

Edit: I added one rule to the first page I had forgotten about. You must make a selection for ALL of the matchups in a round. You can't just vote for a few. It's all or nothing. That's a rule we always had previously.
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Hikari14



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:03 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
No, but again simply judging a character by this standard is akin to making votes based on the powers alone. Which really doesn't cover the whole "badass" mentality on their own. That's where attitude is so important to me within this tournament. Simply shrugging off all that damage is nice, and would get him further in a "powerful" character tournament. Here though, simply having powers is only half of it. HOW they use them is as important, if not more so. For example I'd argue Eren is more badass with how he just throws himself into fights in his titan mode. How he has lots of power AND that kick ass and take names mentality to go along with it. If you feel Reiner is the more badass of the two then awesome, vote for him. For me personally though, I just find him lacking in this matchup.

Another 2 prime examples are why I did not believe Saitama belonged here despite his immense power. He has a few badass moments here and there, but largely is just "there" in terms of personality. Bang has more of the baddass mentality and swagger than Saitama. Another example is comparing Luffy to either Zoro or Sanji. Or how about Goku and Vegita.

Which I must say for the record we are using the ACTUAL DB Vegita for this tournament, not the DBZ Abridged version. I better make that clear or Vegita would steamroll this competition with his badassery. In his mind anyways lol. That's a joke btw. Seriously though, watch DBZ Abridged it's hilarious and makes the show much better in places.

Didn't you see my post where I explained why his attitude is badass?

Seriously, though, I don't see the point of making arguments (even in the later rounds). If there is anything I've learned, it's that arguments sway no one, so I don't see the point of making them in the first place. For instance, no matter how well I argue Reiner's case, it won't sway either of you, so it's pointless.
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AkumaChef



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm Reply with quote
Personally I would love to hear more arguments for/against different characters. Clearly they won't change everyone's mind in every matchup but I think they are still useful. I doubt that any of us participating are familiar with every character in the tournament. I know there are many I don't know much about, and for those characters I'd love to hear others give their thoughts.

Consider this a call for arguments for or against:
Erza Scarlet
Kyojuro Rengoku
Lancer (Cú Chulainn)
I'm studying up on them, but it's always nice if someone can point to a particularly good scene or video or whatever to check out.

...and for that matter, I'm happy to hear arguments for the rest as well, I already voted for most of the characters in this bracket but I'm not above changing my votes if I can be convinced otherwise.

For anyone wondering why I nominated Gabimaru Rikiya (Warning: profanity and blood)
https://youtu.be/zzUro6mlINk?t=2081
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Hikari14



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:17 pm Reply with quote
If what I had said so far doesn't convince anyone, nothing I could say in the future would either. I will now return to my corner and watch Reiner die over and over again.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:11 pm Reply with quote
Hikari14 wrote:
Seriously, though, I don't see the point of making arguments (even in the later rounds). If there is anything I've learned, it's that arguments sway no one, so I don't see the point of making them in the first place.

It's never pointless to converse. Even the smallest inkling of information can lead to a rabbit hole of research, which may eventually change someone's mind.

I think the main problem is that something like "badass" measurement is totally subjective. Since we tend to stick with what's familiar to us, that's what we believe in, and beliefs are difficult to shatter. But that doesn't mean you can't keep learning.

My support for Sano is based on a total of 6 go-throughs (3 anime, 2 manga, 1 live-action) of the entirety of Rurouni Kenshin, so I'm very familiar with the characters, themes, and plot (and it just so happens to be my favorite franchise, so there's even more bias Razz).

I've only seen the anime for Attack on Titan once, as it was coming out, spread out over these 7 years since the first episode, and I haven't read the manga, as I didn't want it to spoil the anime. So yeah, I'm not as familiar or intimate with the material, since it took so long see to it and there's been so much time in-between.

But after you made your argument for Reiner, I looked up a very extensive AoT Wikia fandom page to delve more into his history and character progression. It's a bit much to digest in one sitting, as black backgrounds with white text hurts my eyes after a while, but I learned a lot more about his circumstances, motivations, and convictions. I intend to keep reading everything I can about him, and depending on what I discover, it may or may not change my mind.

Hikari14 wrote:
If what I had said so far doesn't convince anyone, nothing I could say in the future would either. I will now return to my corner and watch Reiner die over and over again.

One of the main themes of Kenshin is to not give up and defend what you believe in.

Here's Sano's backstory in a nutshell:

As a child, Sano joined the Sekihou-tai (army), an anti-bakufu (feudal military government) faction that was composed mainly of farmers and merchants. His commander was Sagara Sōzō. The Sekihou-tai was working with activists trying to instill the new imperial government over the old feudal one that ruled for the previous 250-ish years.

At one point, the imperialists told the Sekihou-tai to spread news and rumors about promised tax reforms, which essentially swayed enough domains to side with the imperialists and affect the tide of the war. But some of those politicians were now suffering and vulnerable, financially, because of the tax reform rumors that they couldn't meet.

When the Meiji Government became established, the newly appointed imperial politicians tried to save face with the whole tax reform smoke screen by saying the Sekihou-tai were liars and slanderers, ultimately branding them as traitors to the cause. Then an order was put out by the government demanding every commander and officer of each Sekihou unit be captured and executed for raising the people's hopes with "falsified reports of tax reform."

Sagara's unit tried to turn themselves in and compromise a truce to, at least, spare the officers. But the government lured them into a trap, killed all the officers, beheaded the Captain, and put his head on display for the public. Sanosuke was the only one to survive, took up the surname of his captain as a memento, and became a fighter-for-hire from that point on and into his late teens to quell his anger for the betrayal of his comrades.

Initially, he just goes around beating people up for money, hating on imperialists, and thinking they're totally corrupt until he encounters Kenshin, who fought for the imperialists during the war, which only made the animosity worse, but gets beaten. At that point, Kenshin basically inspires Sano to turn that angry outward offense into a helpful protective defense for the weak and oppressed, and to uphold the duties and principals of the Sekihou-tai in spirit while continuing to fight for their beliefs.
----------------------------------

And that's just up to the point of when Sano becomes part of the group about a quarter of the way through the story. Later, there's a whole big bloody battle of fists and beliefs between Sano and a monk named Anji.

The whole franchise is filled with characters that either did terrible things at some point in their lives or suffered a great loss that created a pit in their existence. A lot of those characters end up trying to repent/atone by helping others, or the story eventually tries to illustrate the point that life and living are precious and worth protecting.

Don't give up on Reiner.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:58 am Reply with quote
Hikari14 wrote:
Seriously, though, I don't see the point of making arguments (even in the later rounds). If there is anything I've learned, it's that arguments sway no one, so I don't see the point of making them in the first place. For instance, no matter how well I argue Reiner's case, it won't sway either of you, so it's pointless.

Well for starters it's required later on so things don't simply become list posts with no depth. More importantly you are really off on the notion that the arguments won't sway people. I have repeatedly said how the arguments for and against characters in previous tournaments did in fact sway people's opinions. Some of those changes proved crucial to who actually won a match or not. I also just said how my own opinion was swayed in favor of Leon over Bang. So yes, there is a point to it. They can have impacts. And often we saw in past tournaments those arguments accumulated over time and as the tournaments went on people's thoughts started to shift.
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Hikari14



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:14 am Reply with quote
My votes then:

A1 Claire Stanfield vs. A34 Umibozu

A2 Balalaika vs. A33 Saki Asamiya

A3 "D" (Vampire Hunter D) vs.A32 Tsunayoshi Sawada

A4 Balsa vs. A31 Busujima

A5 Riza Hawkeye vs. A30 Satoru Gojo

A6 Re-L Mayer vs. A29 Shino Kuribayashi

A7 Guts vs. A28 Dio Brando

A8 Lancer (Cú Chulainn) vs. A27 Gabimaru Rikiya

A9 Alita vs. A26 Moutoku Sousou

A10 Broly vs. A25 Cobra

A11 Alucard vs. A24 Ains Ooal Gown

A12 Leon McNichols vs. A23 Bang (Silver Fang)

A13 Terry Bogard vs. A22 Isaac Netero

A14 Jubei Kibagami vs. A21 Kisuke Urahara

A15 Kyojuro Rengoku vs. A20 Erza Scarlet

A16 Itachi Uchiha vs. A19 Eikichi Onizuka

A17 Reiner Braun vs. A18 Sanosuke Sagara
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Hikari14



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:30 am Reply with quote
And I will repeat this again, just in case people didn't see this part of my earlier post:

And if we're talking about attitude, well, I've got something to say in that department as well.

Spoilers for anime/manga/final season

From evaluation
Quote:
Reiner Braun. He possesses great mental and physical fortitude. His comrades trust him deeply.


He was a big brother figure for most of cadets. Even the main character looked up to him, as he says in the dubbed version:

Quote:
...I wished I could have been half as strong as you. You were my hero.


He also 'inherited' some qualities from his deceased friend and leader, Marcel, after he was devoured. Including Marcel's willpower and inner strength.

But there is more.



As someone who contemplated doing this more than once, I can testify that it takes willpower to be able to resist the desire to just do it. So for those saying that Reiner is only because of his powers and is a wimp without any willpower otherwise, you're wrong. So very very wrong.
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Hikari14



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:39 am Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
A1 Claire Stanfield vs. A34 Umibozu
Umibozu has a much more badass appearance and Claire's personality comes across more like a psycho killer than a badass in my opinion. Umibozu also shrugs off an enormous amount of punishment and he's got piles of cool heavy weapons too? He wins.

And finally, here is an example of character being voted because they can shrug off an enormous amount of damage. Guess who else can do just that?
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AkumaChef



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:43 am Reply with quote
Hikari14 wrote:
And finally, here is an example of character being voted because they can shrug off an enormous amount of damage. Guess who else can do just that?

Physical toughness is certainly a feather in Umibozu's cap, just as it is for Reiner. In fact Reiner's physical fortitude puts Umibozu's to shame. But I see that as of secondary importance to the character's personality or aura. The main reason why I voted Umibozu over Claire Stainfield is because I get more of a "pyscho killer" vibe from Claire rather than a "Badass" one. That, for me, was the real decision-maker. If the matchup had been Umibozu vs. Reiner I'd be voting Reiner.
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Hikari14



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am Reply with quote
And again, he post where I explain why Reiner's attitude is badass too doesn't get mentioned at all?

Like, how many times must I try to get you to notice/respond to it before you actually do?!
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