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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1618
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:41 pm
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And yet can't be assed to tell them shit.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18352
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:04 pm
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LastPage 3 wrote: | He wouldn't have even been there if Kumo and crew hadn't nuked his life for little to no reason and then Kyouya has the gall to ask him why he's there. |
Honestly, I have wondered about this myself, but I'm pretty confident that there is a reason; the intricacy of the moving parts in this story operate on too high a level for that to just be random villainy. Getting Hugo as a dupe makes total sense, as it gives the Ariel/White faction more manpower to work with, so the real question is why Sophia (and one other reincarnation) are helping Hugo mess with Shun. To split them off from a connection with Potimas seems logical, though this seems too heavy-handed to be the only reason. Also, one thing that the TV series doesn't clarify, but the equivalent source content does, is that Sophia let them get away in episode 14 because she wasn't supposed to capture them at that point..
There isn't a more concrete reason for those actions yet because, so far, we've only seen Shun's perspective on the events leading up to that. The next novel released in English is, based on the blurb, going to take the spider-side up to at least the point of Julius's death, so those reasons will become clearer in the novels soon. The anime has quite a ways to go to get to that point.
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LastPage 3
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 206
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:55 pm
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Key wrote: |
LastPage 3 wrote: | He wouldn't have even been there if Kumo and crew hadn't nuked his life for little to no reason and then Kyouya has the gall to ask him why he's there. |
Honestly, I have wondered about this myself, but I'm pretty confident that there is a reason; the intricacy of the moving parts in this story operate on too high a level for that to just be random villainy. Getting Hugo as a dupe makes total sense, as it gives the Ariel/White faction more manpower to work with, so the real question is why Sophia (and one other reincarnation) are helping Hugo mess with Shun. To split them off from a connection with Potimas seems logical, though this seems too heavy-handed to be the only reason. Also, one thing that the TV series doesn't clarify, but the equivalent source content does, is that Sophia let them get away in episode 14 because she wasn't supposed to capture them at that point..
There isn't a more concrete reason for those actions yet because, so far, we've only seen Shun's perspective on the events leading up to that. The next novel released in English is, based on the blurb, going to take the spider-side up to at least the point of Julius's death, so those reasons will become clearer in the novels soon. The anime has quite a ways to go to get to that point. |
Using Hugo as a decoy makes sense, but there was no need for all the nonsense he pulled in Anaheit.
Kumo was controlling him all along, so that's doubly true. She just let him run wild, because she didn't care what he did as long as she got what she wanted. She even says as much herself.
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Nordhmmer
Joined: 11 Feb 2017
Posts: 1028
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:37 pm
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LastPage 3 wrote: |
Using Hugo as a decoy makes sense, but there was no need for all the nonsense he pulled in Anaheit.
Kumo was controlling him all along, so that's doubly true. She just let him run wild, because she didn't care what he did as long as she got what she wanted. She even says as much herself. |
White did not let Hugo "run wild" nor was she controlling him from the get go.... After Hugo's failed attempt on Shun's life and Filimøs(Ms Oka) stripped him of his skills,Hugo swore vengeance on Filimøs. Welp White wasn't having that so she took control of Hugo at that point.
A bit of spoilery stuff here
Back on Earth Ms Oka had saved nameless'(White's) life from Natsume (Hugo) and few others.
White cares about Ms Oka-Hugo she would kill out of hand, except it would make Ms Oka sad.
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Cryten
Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 1098
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:55 pm
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And this is why I said this area of conversation was real spoilery. Cause it is basicaly the point of the next 7 books. We just saw the endgame and the next part of the story is how we got there and why people did what they do. Including Sophia, Wrath, Julius, Ariel and Especially White.
We readers (not including anything the web-comic might of spoiled) Still dont know what happens next. The about to be published book will take us to events just before the initial anime series. But I wouldnt be surprised if 14 is also about other characters approaching the main event.
My personal conclusions about shuns party is that simply Julius hero power is dangerous (it can enable killing the demon lord) so they shunted it onto a easily manipulated stooge IE Shun. It could easily still bite them in the back for their choices.
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LastPage 3
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 206
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:14 am
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Nordhmmer wrote: |
LastPage 3 wrote: |
Using Hugo as a decoy makes sense, but there was no need for all the nonsense he pulled in Anaheit.
Kumo was controlling him all along, so that's doubly true. She just let him run wild, because she didn't care what he did as long as she got what she wanted. She even says as much herself. |
White did not let Hugo "run wild" nor was she controlling him from the get go.... After Hugo's failed attempt on Shun's life and Filimøs(Ms Oka) stripped him of his skills,Hugo swore vengeance on Filimøs. Welp White wasn't having that so she took control of Hugo at that point.
A bit of spoilery stuff here
Back on Earth Ms Oka had saved nameless'(White's) life from Natsume (Hugo) and few others.
White cares about Ms Oka-Hugo she would kill out of hand, except it would make Ms Oka sad. |
That's what I meant when I said 'all along'. And it is a fact that she just let him do whatever he wanted to Anaheit and Shun because she frankly never cared as long as she was able to clear her objectives.
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Mencor
Joined: 24 Feb 2021
Posts: 65
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:32 am
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We have been given pieces to the puzzle of why Shun is kept in the dark.
The elves have strong ties to the kingdom, shown in diferent ways in the novel and anime, the novel is clearer.
Thus telling Shun the how and why means risking Shun teling the wrong person before the purge.
After the purge Shun was somewhat disinclined to listen and Ohka cut of Kyoija when he tried.
As for why Sophia toyed with them rather then sitting down and explaining shit.
She was ordered not to kill any reincarnations, you don't need to order someone not to do something if they have no inclination of doing it in the first place.
Thus we can infer that Sophia would be willing to kill (at the least some of them) and thus doesn't care about (at the least some of them) them overly much, or at all.
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LastPage 3
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 206
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:37 am
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Mencor wrote: | We have been given pieces to the puzzle of why Shun is kept in the dark.
The elves have strong ties to the kingdom, shown in diferent ways in the novel and anime, the novel is clearer.
Thus telling Shun the how and why means risking Shun teling the wrong person before the purge.
After the purge Shun was somewhat disinclined to listen and Ohka cut of Kyoija when he tried.
As for why Sophia toyed with them rather then sitting down and explaining shit.
She was ordered not to kill any reincarnations, you don't need to order someone not to do something if they have no inclination of doing it in the first place.
Thus we can infer that Sophia would be willing to kill (at the least some of them) and thus doesn't care about (at the least some of them) them overly much, or at all. |
I know why they didn't tell Shun anything beforehand and why they wanted to kill certain people in Anaheit. They really didn't need to have Sue kill her own father or frame Shun for it.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18352
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:47 am
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LastPage 3 wrote: | I know why they didn't tell Shun anything beforehand and why they wanted to kill certain people in Anaheit. They really didn't need to have Sue kill her own father or frame Shun for it. |
Actually, that's easily explainable based on content animated so far.
Either:
1) Hugo did that part on his own because he hates Shun so much
Or:
2) It was part of a grander scheme to discredit Shun (who had not yet been publicly announced as the new Hero) so that Hugo could be convincingly publicly declared to be the new Hero
. . .and quite possibly both.
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LastPage 3
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 206
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:57 pm
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Key wrote: |
LastPage 3 wrote: | I know why they didn't tell Shun anything beforehand and why they wanted to kill certain people in Anaheit. They really didn't need to have Sue kill her own father or frame Shun for it. |
Actually, that's easily explainable based on content animated so far.
Either:
1) Hugo did that part on his own because he hates Shun so much
Or:
2) It was part of a grander scheme to discredit Shun (who had not yet been publicly announced as the new Hero) so that Hugo could be convincingly publicly declared to be the new Hero
. . .and quite possibly both. |
And both those explanations have been jossed by further information in the WN.
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1618
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:05 pm
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At this point, do any character's actions make any sense without reading a dozen volumes before?
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Mencor
Joined: 24 Feb 2021
Posts: 65
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:33 pm
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LastPage 3 wrote: |
Mencor wrote: | We have been given pieces to the puzzle of why Shun is kept in the dark.
The elves have strong ties to the kingdom, shown in diferent ways in the novel and anime, the novel is clearer.
Thus telling Shun the how and why means risking Shun teling the wrong person before the purge.
After the purge Shun was somewhat disinclined to listen and Ohka cut of Kyoija when he tried.
As for why Sophia toyed with them rather then sitting down and explaining shit.
She was ordered not to kill any reincarnations, you don't need to order someone not to do something if they have no inclination of doing it in the first place.
Thus we can infer that Sophia would be willing to kill (at the least some of them) and thus doesn't care about (at the least some of them) them overly much, or at all. |
I know why they didn't tell Shun anything beforehand and why they wanted to kill certain people in Anaheit. They really didn't need to have Sue kill her own father or frame Shun for it. |
You state that with such certainty, what are you basing that statement on?
You don't know the thinking behind the action and thus there is no thought behind it?
You can't see the meaning so there can't be a meaning?
Quite arrogant don't you think?
How about turning it around?
If there is a meaning behind the actions what could that meaning be, well the post after the one I replied to give some suggestions on that.
Yuvelir wrote: | At this point, do any character's actions make any sense without reading a dozen volumes before? |
Yes, the ones in focus. Kumokos action while she's running around in the labyrinth, Shun and company's motivation is also quite plain to see, with the exception of the teacher. Things going on in the background aren't always as they appear, though. Some of it can be infered with the information available others will be suprises when we are shown the truth.
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Nordhmmer
Joined: 11 Feb 2017
Posts: 1028
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:25 pm
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Yuvelir wrote: | At this point, do any character's actions make any sense without reading a dozen volumes before? |
More like you need to read v6 thru v13 to fill in the 13 year gap and most of the big reveals.
Volume 14 pretty much picks up where the anime left off at(volume 5).
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1618
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:50 pm
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Nordhmmer wrote: |
Yuvelir wrote: | At this point, do any character's actions make any sense without reading a dozen volumes before? |
More like you need to read v6 thru v13 to fill in the 13 year gap and most of the big reveals.
Volume 14 pretty much picks up where the anime left off at(volume 5). |
Let's leave it at half a dozen then.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18352
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:17 pm
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Yuvelir wrote: | At this point, do any character's actions make any sense without reading a dozen volumes before? |
Sure, the actions of Shun and most of his party (minus Oka) have been pretty clearly laid out. (Excepting that some of Kanata's motivations have been skipped over, but that doesn't affect the understanding of the bigger picture in any way.)
The key thing to remember here is that, unlike most light novel series which get adapted into anime, there aren't really story arcs to this one that are defined by one or two novels' worth of material. Instead, there are story paths (i.e., human-side and spider-side). The whole series can be thought of as one big, continuous arc.
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