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EP. REVIEW: Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation


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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3652
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:19 pm Reply with quote
What exactly was the plan when they walked in and made fools of themselves? Ruijerd was already disguised by changing his hair color, what did their bragging accomplish?
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Poppet



Joined: 19 Jan 2021
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:27 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
What exactly was the plan when they walked in and made fools of themselves? Ruijerd was already disguised by changing his hair color, what did their bragging accomplish?


To spread the word that "Ruijerd the Dead End" is nothing to fear.
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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:35 pm Reply with quote
By convincing everyone that he was an impersonator? How would that help?
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OtherSideofSky





PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:41 pm Reply with quote
Iirc the plan was to convince everyone he was an impersonator by disguising him and then making a big deal out of it. I think the idea is that if he were just in disguise and trying to lie low, people would be more likely to get suspicious and see through it (especially since he just dyed his hair and put on a necklace).
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3650
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:48 pm Reply with quote
Definitely a great bit of world building this week and the city was a treat too. I would have like a little bit more on what they were doing at night to light up the place.

I'm surprised there was no mention of Eris flipping the #%@$ out on that guy for ripping her coat. I thought she might have grown up a bit and become more balanced, but clearly she's gone even further off the handle. Hopefully she learns to control herself before it gets her into conflict with someone who will be able to fight back
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Kibako



Joined: 07 Feb 2019
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:03 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:

I'm surprised there was no mention of Eris flipping the #%@$ out on that guy for ripping her coat. I thought she might have grown up a bit and become more balanced, but clearly she's gone even further off the handle. Hopefully she learns to control herself before it gets her into conflict with someone who will be able to fight back


I would be mad too if a random guy came and ripped the coat I got from my gf. And she is a violent type of girl so that kind of action is understandable.
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TheWa_rudo



Joined: 26 Jan 2021
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:41 am Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
What exactly was the plan when they walked in and made fools of themselves? Ruijerd was already disguised by changing his hair color, what did their bragging accomplish?


Hiding in plain sight. spoiler[And also, probably making his feats known so when one day people discovered his identity he would have a bunch of easily traceable good actions behind him to look at.
]

As mentioned at the end of the last episode, Rudy wants to help fix the reputation of the Supard race, so they're not simply hiding.

As for why a simple dye works this much. It'll probably be revealled at the start of the next cour.
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helln00



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:24 am Reply with quote
You know if this was the baseline Rudeus I would be much more ok with that, fish out of water, uncomfortable with himself and don't know what to do, with the sort of anime perversion that is much less problematic then what we know. This is how I sort of remember him in the manga when the kinda ruined it for me tbh.

Also on the murder scene, I do sort of agree that him arguing about not killing with Ruijerd is kinda out of place considering their position, but its the sort of thing that needs to be lampshaded so that its sorta meaningful in the future when the circumstances change, like at somepoint they will be in a less dog eat dog place and Ruijerd's personality will need to be more flexible.

TheWa_rudo wrote:
The lack of this scene is missed, but the fact that it exists shows that the author knew what he was writting about and was not trying to promote(?)* or defend some of the things people accuse the story of.

*English is not my first language and I forgot what was the right word to say there. Like, when someone tries to convince someone that something bad is good... was it glorify?

Anyway, my main point is that I have been immersed on the anime culture for long time and I've seen truly disgusting things. Not in the sense that they appear disgusting, but that they show terrible behaviour and actions in a positive light, almost as if it was something normal. Even in shounen shows, there is plenty of things that would be considered criminal in the real world, and shown as if just being an innofensive joke.

And Mushoku does none of that, it shows bad behaviour flatly. The bad as bad, the good as good. It does not pass jugdement, but it does make it clear what it is for the viewer/reader without sugarcoating it. After all, it's target audience are adults, and adults should not need moral guidance from fiction. So it can show up fucked up things in this way.


There is a flaw in your logic, How does it not pass judgement while also showing the good as good and the bad as bad? There is no such thing as being a neutral observer in fiction, since everything in the story was added there was done with human judgement.

Also its not about what they show, its also about how they show it(even though in this case to be there is clear intention). A joke is a joke because other people know its a joke, and jokes can fail even if the person was trying to be funny, it requires skill to do it well. Likewise here if they wanted to show fucked up things and have it be a message it better be [expletive] clear as daylight, not out of some sense of moral guidance, but just out of the need for clear communication, playing coy with taboo topics is something that any creator should knows not to take lightly.

To answer your question of why they did it, I do not for sure know what is in the writer's head, the only indicator of what he wants has been the contents of the anime and a few tweets, and you are free to make of it what you will. It can be that they see this behavior as bad but not that bad, akin to other perverts in anime, which I would consider to be a very misguided opinion at best but its up to them.

To add another note, I find it interesting that when Mushoko tensei's author or other creators talk about Rudy's behaviour, their argument isnt that he doesn't have regret about being a perv but he just becomes less of a perv and more "serious".

I think in another thread someone noted that the logic kinda goes that being a perv is in a sense part of him being a hikki/NEET and that as stops being a NEET , he becomes less of a pervert. Which is blindingly bad frame and also an insult to NEETs, like an internalised version of that "otakus are creep" argument that even Oreimo had to argue against.

In addition, as you have also noted, there are scenes where he shows regret for his behaviour, which was actually removed from the anime, so anime Rudy is even by that standard a less reflective individual and less forgivable by the LN standard, which again to me doesn't bode well for what the show wants.

I also find it funny how you mentioned that all of his rewards have been through hard work when the anime showed that he is basically a genius by their magic standard and his years of hard work was condensed and not shown with any struggles.
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Mami-kouga



Joined: 19 Jan 2021
Posts: 161
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:39 am Reply with quote
helln00 wrote:

Also on the murder scene, I do sort of agree that him arguing about not killing with Ruijerd is kinda out of place considering their position, but its the sort of thing that needs to be lampshaded so that its sorta meaningful in the future when the circumstances change, like at somepoint they will be in a less dog eat dog place and Ruijerd's personality will need to be more flexible.
.


The murder scene to me seemed less to do with Rudeus actually thinking killing is bad and more- the average person from our world isn't going to be comfortable seeing people get decapitated in real time no matter how much they 'deserve it' (and straight up murdering them is rather disproportionate even if they're not good people)
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11348
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:31 am Reply with quote
I really loved the new OP song (Mezame no Uta). That was nice, as was the scenery.

It probably won't be enough, but I think I'll try muting Eris always channeling her inner Asta and see if that helps.

Are there no laws or enforcement of any sort in this realm outside of the gate sentries? I'm just wondering if it's ok to go around murdering anyone who can't stop you or who has no gang to take retribution here, since that seems like something that could bite them in the ass down the road if there are. If not, then no worries I guess.
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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3652
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:07 pm Reply with quote
It definitely seems like the other folks are very surprised at the killing, so I assume it isn't typical.
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OtherSideofSky





PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:10 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Are there no laws or enforcement of any sort in this realm outside of the gate sentries? I'm just wondering if it's ok to go around murdering anyone who can't stop you or who has no gang to take retribution here, since that seems like something that could bite them in the ass down the road if there are. If not, then no worries I guess.

Iirc, the Demon Continent is basically city-states ruled by local strongmen who recruit guards, plus villages which set their own watches. The bigger human kingdoms have more infrastructure, like knights and courts and stuff, but their laws aren't necessarily good or evenly applied. I believe the city they're in at this point in the anime is missing its ruler (as in, the ruler left on a trip and no one knows where they are), so it's basically just running on autopilot.
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 666
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
It definitely seems like the other folks are very surprised at the killing, so I assume it isn't typical.


I'm pretty sure those two were only shocked because it was their companion that died and they might be next, not that they had any major qualms against killing.
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TheWa_rudo



Joined: 26 Jan 2021
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:37 pm Reply with quote
helln00 wrote:

There is a flaw in your logic, How does it not pass judgement while also showing the good as good and the bad as bad? There is no such thing as being a neutral observer in fiction, since everything in the story was added there was done with human judgement.


It means that you show things without the the presentation distorcing much the scene one way or the other, it lets the viewer pass the jugdement.
Like when some putting a x scene in an exagerated way like in many anime in a way that it's far enough from reality to take seriously.

Or, with an example, it would be like watching "Friends" without the background laughs where the scenes become downright creepy.
The character inside may be trying to be funny, but without the laughs to tell how we should think of the scene, we have the freedom to see for what it is.

Another example are the cases when an story shows all the actions of seomeone as bad or in a bad light, only to reveal later that they were innocent. But the original scene itself passes the jugdment for us that those actions were evil. Like that old guy home alone.

helln00 wrote:

Likewise here if they wanted to show fucked up things and have it be a message it better be [expletive] clear as daylight, not out of some sense of moral guidance, but just out of the need for clear communication, playing coy with taboo topics is something that any creator should knows not to take lightly.


That's the important part, it shows in a way that there is no message. It simply is and happens. We know that it's bad and the anime does not try to hide it.

helln00 wrote:

To answer your question of why they did it, I do not for sure know what is in the writer's head, the only indicator of what he wants has been the contents of the anime and a few tweets, and you are free to make of it what you will. It can be that they see this behavior as bad but not that bad, akin to other perverts in anime, which I would consider to be a very misguided opinion at best but its up to them.


Maybe that's because I have the context of the original novels. He beats himself up quite a bit later for some of his actions, at times with some of the very arguments other people use.
And in the novel he is ALWAYS self-reflecting about his mistakes and opinions. A smaller example is in Vol. 1 when he initially blames most of the reasons he never left home after becoming a hikikomori on his parents, and later admiting it was mostly his own. And he is always in this flux.
So when he goes in his into his most disgusting antics, the main reaction that follows the "wtf is he doing?" is of "when will he fix that as well" instead of of the pure wtf.

helln00 wrote:

To add another note, I find it interesting that when Mushoko tensei's author or other creators talk about Rudy's behaviour, their argument isnt that he doesn't have regret about being a perv but he just becomes less of a perv and more "serious".

I think in another thread someone noted that the logic kinda goes that being a perv is in a sense part of him being a hikki/NEET and that as stops being a NEET , he becomes less of a pervert. Which is blindingly bad frame and also an insult to NEETs, like an internalised version of that "otakus are creep" argument that even Oreimo had to argue against.

I see that as more of there is no problem being a pervert, the problem is how you express this.
Also, Rudeus will keep being a pervert and what will change is that he will stop expressing that in an unhealthy and damaging way.

helln00 wrote:

In addition, as you have also noted, there are scenes where he shows regret for his behaviour, which was actually removed from the anime, so anime Rudy is even by that standard a less reflective individual and less forgivable by the LN standard, which again to me doesn't bode well for what the show wants..

Nothing to say in regards to that, I really don't understand why they cut it, specially considering how significant that moment was for his character development.
Like I said, it could be because I have the context of the novels, but at least that shows that the author didn't want to show those actions of his as something positive.
.
The best bet I have for the why the anime did that is that japan does not see sexual things in media with the same in the same most of the west does. So it didn't go over the line over there.
That scene from EP.8 was the make or brake for me in the novel. If wasn't for his self torturing right after I would have probable dropped it. But in the novel he also has more bad traits to fix.

helln00 wrote:

I also find it funny how you mentioned that all of his rewards have been through hard work when the anime showed that he is basically a genius by their magic standard and his years of hard work was condensed and not shown with any struggles.


He is not a genius. He had years and years of studying magic and that was mostly the only thing he had to do since he couldn't leave his home. He has more magical capacity and his knowledge from past life, but that's all. During all these years he is still stuck on the same level he was when he graduated from roxy. And in terms of battle potencial he couldnt defeat even a pair of bandits with real experience.

In terms of real genius, there is spoiler[Aisha and the dollmaker prince, etc...
Even Silphy is better than him since she develops a pratical method to teach chantless magic to everyone.]


[EDIT: Added spoiler tags for some content that has clearly not come up yet in the anime. - Key]
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5823
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Are there no laws or enforcement of any sort in this realm outside of the gate sentries? I'm just wondering if it's ok to go around murdering anyone who can't stop you or who has no gang to take retribution here, since that seems like something that could bite them in the ass down the road if there are. If not, then no worries I guess.


There is probably no clear cut answer to that. Even in our own history, you could say it just depends. Our own modern law and justice system in part was built to deal with justice and punishment, so that the citizens wouldn't take the law into their own hands, and all the serious problems that come with that.

If dead bodies show up in the morning, with no witnesses coming forward, would they even care. When did detectives and/or crime solvers start showing up, as an official part of government? They probably have some sort of city patrol, but if it isn't very large, it is probably only good at taking witness statements after the fact, and if the criminals cannot be identified, won't be of much use anyway. I would hope city market area's and high value targets would have some protection, but depending on costs they might make merchant associations fund and provide their own security.

Another factor to consider, does even the ruler even care about their people. Meaning does he or she see the people as people or as a resource. If as a resource, then individual losses are acceptable, but when they become too great, then the guard is sent in to break the 'usual suspects'. If you believe fantasy TV shows or novels, kingdoms might employ spies amongst the populace to find such problems. The question then is what are their assigned priorities.
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