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This Week in Anime - Isekai Until I Die


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getchman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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Location: Bedford, NH
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:53 am Reply with quote
the only merit a raccoon has is an occasional funny video on AFV. Or dismantling a giant metal owl. You guys are weird
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Gamen



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 am Reply with quote
Personally I always assume that when someone uses a loaded word like trash to describe a show/musical act/genre they're intentionally intimating any one who enjoys viewing/listening/reading it has a character flaw.

I mean, was no one called weird for liking anime growing up? No one's taste in music was called shallow or even deviant? And those insults were most probably based on the critic's own shallow, ignorant assumptions! When it's a well-founded opinion based on the work's repugnant content how can you not take it seriously as a personal insult? Experience would show they probably mean it.

(Edit: That said, overreacting to insults is a real character flaw!)

In my opinion this doesn't apply to Steve and Jean-Karlo's review; I personally didn't feel insulted by it. It's their first impressions, it's on the reader to remember that and temper their expectations. I've read the books so I know that Rudy's full of self-loathing, self-doubt, and just generally think he's unworthy trash... but that's not how it comes across in the first episodes. And in that respect the show fails, because it shows him as a happy-go-lucky kid escaping the consequences of his past and first impressions matter.

But back to where I started... maybe use a less loaded phrase like "guilty pleasure" instead? I mean, it's still problematic since it implies one should feel guilty for liking something, but it's soft enough for me.
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Psycho 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:51 pm Reply with quote
Gamen wrote:
Personally I always assume that when someone uses a loaded word like trash to describe a show/musical act/genre they're intentionally intimating any one who enjoys viewing/listening/reading it has a character flaw.


Insert age old quote about assumptions and asses and what not. Which I do understand, to a degree. And this is coming from someone who was ridiculed for a variety of reasons. However, once again assumptions and all that. So I give people the chance to show which side they fall on in terms of being personally insulting or not. Which is also why I went into more elaborate detail, and said to enjoy said trash in my own comments to make it more clear.

getchman wrote:
the only merit a raccoon has is an occasional funny video on AFV. Or dismantling a giant metal owl. You guys are weird


Actually they have a lot of other merits in terms of an animal ecosystem. Possums even more, though they're not as cute. I think they are, but I'm in the minority. Then again I have handled babies of both due to work.

As for your claims about being weird....yea, so?

And this is getting a bit off topic at this point. Which is partially my own fault.
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Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1256
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:14 pm Reply with quote
For my part, while my post history should make it clear where I stand when it comes to merits of the shows under discussion, and I have a lot of respect for ANN's writers and staff and mods in general... I'm really uncomfortable with discourse along the lines of "Only people who have something wrong with them would think I'm insinuating there's something wrong with them." Maybe people don't realize it, but there's a lot of an I'm-not-touching-you air to it.

Maybe some of it comes from the fact that so little of it is genuinely expressed in a sincere tone of "I swear, I'm not trying to disparage anyone else's tastes." Most of it is more like "Ugh, you people again, why must you be so touchy." Which, y'know, carries connotations. (Or to make direct quotes: "laughable", "heads in the sand", "blind". I notice Psycho 101 could've brought up Ikki Tousen in that original post to establish commonality -- a fairly straightforward de-escalation tactic -- but didn't until it could be used to scold Actar for perceiving an insult.)

And this is especially complicated when it comes to an icky but very popular series, where a critic may be totally disgusted with it, but the question remains open: "Why, then, do so many people love the thing you despise? What distinguishes you from them?" And while they would never say so explicitly, it's hard to infer their reason as being anything but "I am wiser, more knowledgeable, and more virtuous than them."

Maybe that's not the message anyone means to send. But if not, I think it's a copout to say that the communication error is entirely on the other person's end. Because that's just a way of stating explicitly what the other person already thinks you believe: "I am better than you."

(I will say this: It's clear that the folks at ANN have colleagues they work with and respect who enjoy the shows under discussion, and I have never seen any ANN-affiliated detractors go out of their way to antagonize any individual fans of those shows. I genuinely don't believe anyone at ANN is trying to start fights about this stuff.)
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Showsni



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 641
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:14 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
the show that quote was actually about isn't an isekai at all (no reincarnation, characters can travel freely to and from the other world).


Since when where those required elements of an isekai? I thought isekai just meant someone had travelled from our world to another world; no reason that means they've been killed, or can't travel home again. Granted, I would often expect them to be "trapped" in the other world, at least initially.
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Actar



Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:05 am Reply with quote
Shay Guy wrote:
I'm really uncomfortable with discourse along the lines of "Only people who have something wrong with them would think I'm insinuating there's something wrong with them." Maybe people don't realize it, but there's a lot of an I'm-not-touching-you air to it.

Maybe some of it comes from the fact that so little of it is genuinely expressed in a sincere tone of "I swear, I'm not trying to disparage anyone else's tastes." Most of it is more like "Ugh, you people again, why must you be so touchy." Which, y'know, carries connotations. (Or to make direct quotes: "laughable", "heads in the sand", "blind". I notice Psycho 101 could've brought up Ikki Tousen in that original post to establish commonality -- a fairly straightforward de-escalation tactic -- but didn't until it could be used to scold Actar for perceiving an insult.)

And this is especially complicated when it comes to an icky but very popular series, where a critic may be totally disgusted with it, but the question remains open: "Why, then, do so many people love the thing you despise? What distinguishes you from them?" And while they would never say so explicitly, it's hard to infer their reason as being anything but "I am wiser, more knowledgeable, and more virtuous than them."

Maybe that's not the message anyone means to send. But if not, I think it's a copout to say that the communication error is entirely on the other person's end. Because that's just a way of stating explicitly what the other person already thinks you believe: "I am better than you."


Just wanted to say that I really appreciate your post. That's pretty much exactly what I had wanted to say.
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Key
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:43 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
getchman wrote:
the only merit a raccoon has is an occasional funny video on AFV. Or dismantling a giant metal owl. You guys are weird


Actually they have a lot of other merits in terms of an animal ecosystem. Possums even more, though they're not as cute. I think they are, but I'm in the minority. Then again I have handled babies of both due to work.

Sorry, you'll never convince me that raccoons are anything other than demon creatures. Between trapping the ones who got into my attic by tearing my roof up in a half-dozen places, sealing the roof so it couldn't happen again, and fixing/replacing damaged roof tiles, they have cost me around $3k already.

Rocket is, of course, an exception.
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