Forum - View topicJust What the Heck is Genshin Impact?
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
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Next you'll be saying that we shouldn't sell children cigarettes and alcohol like some kind of prude. |
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strawberry_milk
 Posts: 88 |
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Are there any gacha games not aimed at children?
Not really the same thing. If any human consumes enough nicotine or alcohol then anyone's body will develop a dependency on it, while only a minority of people develops gambling addiction. A more appropriate comparison would be should we be selling lucky dips to children? You pay money and hope for the prize you want but you don't know what you're actually going to get. How is Genshin Impact different? |
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pikabot
Posts: 168 |
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I don't know, you tell me, person arguing in favor of the ethical nature of the gacha business model. |
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zero_chance
Posts: 21 |
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Putting aside the contentious issue of Gacha, Genshin is a game where you can absolutely see where the money's going.
It's telling which people quit early on, if they're still going on about shallow plots or characters or "nothing to do". Every subsequent patch has brought significant updates to the game, with a drastic increase in quality with each one. It used to be that the storytelling was limited in scope, with only one or two main characters involved at any given time. Now we get stories with over half-a-dozen characters in play at once, each with 3x the voiced dialogue they used to get. Art assets and writing have gotten increasingly more elaborate with every patch. The stories are longer and more fulfilling, and they've gotten more dynamic and experimental with the delivery. This most recent patch, debuting the game's most recent nation, is absolutely the most loaded yet. Feels like twice as much content as any other previous nation launched with, and is only a third complete, with two more major region expansions to go. The story is much meatier, with each of the two story Acts being half again as long as those prior, plus they're abandoning the previously limiting three-act structure. This current chapter will probably have five or six acts instead to fully realize its plot, without even getting into the bonus stories all the previous regions have gotten. Voice acting in the game (in any language) was top-notch right from the get-go, but as mentioned earlier, we're consistently getting more and more of it as well. No longer relegated to just the main story quests, but also expanding out into the headliner Events as well, with scores and scores of NPC voices to boot. And of course, there's the fan engagement stuff they do outside the game. There's their extremely high-quality concert presentations. Worldwide art installations. Fun promotional web events with cute bonus artwork. MiHoyo is also heavily philanthropically involved. They've got an initiative where they're the majority benefactor in building public schools in China in impoverished regions, and I've heard they've been making significant contributions to research grants towards nuclear power in an attempt to solve the worldwide energy crisis. On top of that all, it sounds like they're not a complete shithole of a company to work for, either. Unlike all the industry abuses you constantly hear of due to the race to the bottom dollar for the sake of lining shareholder pockets, MiHoyo has resisted buyout attempts and remains a solely private company. They put their money where their mouth is, and are rapidly expanding to meet their ever-growing needs, instead of subjecting their employees to painful crunch time. The complaints about the resin system are becoming more and more quaint, a realm of those who have nothing better to do that to no-life this game. I've been playing this game from the beginning, and while there was a point where I capped out, with the only content being resin-gated, that's slowly and steadily fallen to the wayside. With full-time employment finally becoming a reality again, I'm starting to struggle to keep up to date with the Storyline and Events. Resin is the last thing on my mind. For any new players wanting to get into the game now, there's probably a good 70-80 hours of quality content awaiting them, 100% free, not locked behind any form of monetary payment, or artificial time-gating. |
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strawberry_milk
Posts: 88 |
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Typically the burden of proof lies with the prosecution, not the defense. You said gacha games could exist so long as they're not aimed at kids. But if all gacha games are aimed at kids, then your logic would have them all not exist. Since you also said you're not wanting them banned, then you need to provide examples that could exist under your logic otherwise your argument fails. |
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pikabot
Posts: 168 |
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No part of my argument hinges on the existence of adult-directed gacha games. Even if they do not exist currently, there's no reason why they could not exist in the future.
On the other hand, if I could claim that all gacha games are directed at children, that would be a very strong argument in favor of regulating them more stringently. I don't have the data on hand to make that claim, so I wasn't making is. So you insisting that I disprove it is, mm, an unusual rhetorical maneuver. |
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strawberry_milk
Posts: 88 |
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Only as much as your argument seems to be advocating for effectively banning an entire genre of video games, since gacha games for non-adults is what you object to and that's what most if not all gacha games are. Is absolute censorship with no compromises really the best we can do? Why stop at video games then. How about traditional lucky dip games. Essentially the same thing as I illustrated earlier. |
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ChomboTheMahjongSpider
Posts: 47 |
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A monetisation scheme is not a genre. The fact that you believe the expenditure of real-world money is central to this 'genre' shows how broken your mindset is. Loot Box Simulator is genuinely free on Steam.
This is just whataboutism. Japanese companies that make gacha games are also bad. I could address the rest of this post, but since you've accused me of racism completely out of the blue, I know you're not arguing in good faith, so there's no point.
Well, before we start a discussion on philanthropy, I'd just like you to clarify your position on the fact that MiHoYo are actually CCP members. I find that Genshin apologists are suspiciously silent on this matter every time it's brought up. |
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strawberry_milk
Posts: 88 |
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I chose the word "genre" because it's a pretty broad term that others have used to describe gacha games. And you don't need to spend real-world money in Genshin Impact's case so I'd ask what your problem with it is but since you gave an unsolicited opinion about my mindset completely out of the blue, I know you're not arguing in good faith, so there's no point. Thanks for the template. |
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ChomboTheMahjongSpider
Posts: 47 |
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I gave an evidence-backed demonstration of your mindset using only points you were making in this thread, that is not the same as an unsolicited opinion. You're also contradicting yourself here. If you don't need to spend real money, then the removal of the casino-like mechanics wouldn't hurt the game, so it wouldn't ban the genre. But you are arguing that it would ban the genre, so real-world gambling also has to be central to the experience. Which is it? |
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strawberry_milk
Posts: 88 |
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If you'd actually been paying attention you'd know that I've been trying to find out from pikabot what they would have the makers of Genshin Impact do. Their replies boil down to "Gacha games wouldn't be banned ... they just couldn't be aimed at children", which is currently unrealistic as most if not all gacha games are aimed at kids, hence they'd effectively be banned by pikabot's logic. The use of real-world money is and was a separate point. You've provided no quoted evidence of this argument above (of your invention) that I'm supposedly making. I repeat, you don't need real-world money to access the gacha mechanics of GI, you can gain the in-game currencies by playing it. The gambling aspect is how you pay currency (real or otherwise) and hope for the prize you want but you don't know what you're actually going to get, hence the comparison to traditional lucky dip games. What's weird is how gacha game haters seem to be silent on how gacha games are effectively the same as lucky dip games, which have been around for decades if not centuries with no ill effects on anyone. |
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ChomboTheMahjongSpider
Posts: 47 |
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No, the real-world money aspect is central to your point, because if they didn't use real-world money (or some obfuscation of real-world money), they would be able to be aimed at children, because they wouldn't be gambling.
More whataboutism, I see. Other bad things existing doesn't make this bad thing less bad. |
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strawberry_milk
Posts: 88 |
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We disagree. I clearly stated that the gambling aspect is how you pay currency (real or otherwise) and hope for the prize you want but you don't know what you're actually going to get. That's the dopamine hit that keeps you coming back, real-world money or not.
So you think lucky dips are bad. Good luck with that. Societies around the world disagree with you. But at least your argument may have a view from that hill you're making it die on. |
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ChomboTheMahjongSpider
Posts: 47 |
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And? It doesn't matter if you keep coming back if you don't spend money to do so.
Wait, what? What are you even saying here? You're mixing your metaphors really hard here. My position on "lucky dips" is irrelevant, I'd literally forgotten they even existed until you mentioned them. When ANN runs a long promotional article on them, maybe we'll discuss them, but this is a thread about Genshin Impact. |
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strawberry_milk
Posts: 88 |
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Tell that to any parent that wants their kid to do their homework instead of spending their time trying to earn enough in-game currency to get the new rare character in a gacha game. It's still a form of gambling with all the symptoms of gambling addiction.
I said "gacha games are effectively the same as lucky dip games" You said "Other bad things existing doesn't make this bad thing less bad." Therefore you said lucky dip games are bad. Really not that complicated. |
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