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INTEREST: Toei Animation Refuses Labor Negotiations With LGBT Union Member


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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:22 pm Reply with quote
None of this should surprise me, as in hindsight it seems obvious, but I am generally surprised that Japan has unions. I thought with their work culture, Unions would be out of the question.
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HoshizoranoUtage



Joined: 20 Jul 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:24 pm Reply with quote
Kirki wrote:
Can't people in Japan change their names officially? No ID cards? If the union says they'll send one person and then a person with a different name appears with no documentation, it would seem like they sent someone else on purpose.

But if the union confirms the identity of this person I still do not see where the problem is. Japan can be weird and this feels much like an excuse to avoid duscussion of the matter at hand.


This. The person should probably just change their legal name if they don't want to get into mix-ups like this. Either that, or see if there's a way to add an alias and their legal name on forms. Bureaucracy-related things in Japan can be real a pain in the neck, (some Japanese friends of mine told me stories about going to the bank and forgetting to bring their hanko, the name stamp Japanese people use in place of a signature, and having to drive back home to get it), and Japan isn't always the most progressive when it comes to minority groups...Japanese married couples can't even have different surnames and same-sex marriage isn't legal there either.
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:48 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Toei is run by bullies and cheapskates.

Capitalism in general, is run by bullies and cheapskates is what you should really say. All major corporations have done this shit in their history and will keep doing it unless society radically changes.

Of course, Toei would treat the vast majority of its stuff like disposable goods, to be used and thrown away. Of course, they'd look for any and all loop holes to sink negations with labor unions, while trying to keep their reputation by claiming it was the other side that wasn't acting in good faith. Of course, they'd happily embrace bigotry as a tool to accomplish that end. What the management of Toei is doing isn't a evil unique to them, it's simply the nature of the beast called Capitalism. I'm sure every other anime company in Japan has done similar despicable acts too, even Ghibli.
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TexZero



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:56 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
None of this should surprise me, as in hindsight it seems obvious, but I am generally surprised that Japan has unions. I thought with their work culture, Unions would be out of the question.


I feel that like the US japan's creatives might have unionized for very similar reasons. Unequal pay, preventing discrimination (much like this case), and better working conditions in general. I'm not sure if that's actually the case but it wouldn't surprise me even with the differences in cultural working habbits.

Either way, Toei should do the right thing and go into arbitration with the parties involved and in future review their hiring and firing policies so as to be based on solely performance / ethics situations (I.E not having a pedo/murderer/etc.. on staff).
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:57 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
None of this should surprise me, as in hindsight it seems obvious, but I am generally surprised that Japan has unions. I thought with their work culture, Unions would be out of the question.


They do have unions, but instead of being wide unions for workers of the same trade across different companies, each company has its own union which therefore tends to be under the company's thumb; rather than pushing for better working conditions and protecting workers' rights they de-escalate conflicts and tend to favor the company's interests over the workers'
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Kaori Makimura



Joined: 18 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:13 pm Reply with quote
While I do feel bad for the union rep, if they SIGNED the documents with their previous name then they're in a bind of their own making. I don't know how difficult it is to change contract details or what have you but I would assume that signing or putting your signature on something with one name and then changing it later unofficially will cause problems.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:09 pm Reply with quote
Seems like Toei is just using the fact that the negotiator is using a different name than their legal name as an excuse to refuse negotiations rather than it being an issue of the negotiators gender. Presumably they'd try to find any excuse to avoid having to go to the table. Though it could be that having a different name on legal documents could potentially cause an issue.

While not really relevant to the issue at hand, it is odd that if B-san can't even stand to look at their name without mental duress, that they wouldn't have legally changed it at this point. Unless Japan's laws would restrict them from changing to their chosen name? I imagine they must see their legal name fairly often, such as when doing taxes, banking, paying bills etc.
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Dr.N0



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:22 pm Reply with quote
People in the Japanese animation industry work under aliases and go uncredited all the time, so I do not see that being an unresolvable legal issue.
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VEGGIM



Joined: 27 Jan 2021
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:23 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
Seems like Toei is just using the fact that the negotiator is using a different name than their legal name as an excuse to refuse negotiations rather than it being an issue of the negotiators gender. Presumably they'd try to find any excuse to avoid having to go to the table. Though it could be that having a different name on legal documents could potentially cause an issue.

While not really relevant to the issue at hand, it is odd that if B-san can't even stand to look at their name without mental duress, that they wouldn't have legally changed it at this point. Unless Japan's laws would restrict them from changing to their chosen name? I imagine they must see their legal name fairly often, such as when doing taxes, banking, paying bills etc.


Exceot what purpose or reason would their be to do that? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Since this basically like shooting your own foot.
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Aaronrules380



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:02 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
Seems like Toei is just using the fact that the negotiator is using a different name than their legal name as an excuse to refuse negotiations rather than it being an issue of the negotiators gender. Presumably they'd try to find any excuse to avoid having to go to the table. Though it could be that having a different name on legal documents could potentially cause an issue.

While not really relevant to the issue at hand, it is odd that if B-san can't even stand to look at their name without mental duress, that they wouldn't have legally changed it at this point. Unless Japan's laws would restrict them from changing to their chosen name? I imagine they must see their legal name fairly often, such as when doing taxes, banking, paying bills etc.

Even if they could theoretically change the name easily, it probably costs money to do so and depending on their financial situation it might just not be worthwhile to do something like that right now when it would almost never come up in their daily life
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:08 pm Reply with quote
People are being banned for their posts in this thread. If you don't want to join them, please do not make any posts that are insensitive or hateful to LGBTQI+ people.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 2191
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:42 pm Reply with quote
VEGGIM wrote:

Exceot what purpose or reason would their be to do that? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Since this basically like shooting your own foot.


For a company to find any excuse to avoid dealing with this? I presume to avoid having to deal with any financial fallout that could happen if things don't go in their favor. This might be bad PR, but it's probably seen as the better business decision since it's less likely to affect their bottom line. I imagine the average Toei consumer/customer isn't going to be aware of this, let alone have it affect their watching/spending in regard to the company.

Aaronrules380 wrote:

Even if they could theoretically change the name easily, it probably costs money to do so and depending on their financial situation it might just not be worthwhile to do something like that right now when it would almost never come up in their daily life


A quick google (so this may not be correct of course) puts it at around 3000 yen (~$30), so while that can be a lot for some (especially in the animation industry it seems), if it's a priority for someone, which it sounds like it is in this case, then I'd have to imagine there's another reason preventing them from doing so. Obviously it's B-san's choice to change their name or not, but they seem to imply they'd be happier if that was the case.
I disagree about you not seeing your name often though. As another example, my email at work is my name and I use that daily. While this may vary depending on your occupation, I still think you encounter your own name fairly often.
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Vent



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:39 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
Seems like Toei is just using the fact that the negotiator is using a different name than their legal name as an excuse to refuse negotiations rather than it being an issue of the negotiators gender. Presumably they'd try to find any excuse to avoid having to go to the table. Though it could be that having a different name on legal documents could potentially cause an issue.


I think this is exactly the case and honestly it makes the whole thing even worse to me, because it's not just discrimination it's discrimination tactically invoked to avoid having to work with a union rep.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:44 pm Reply with quote
Hinotoumei wrote:
so? like I get it and I personally agree that no one should be discriminated against based off gender, race , creed or relgion (or any other reason)

however, in Japan, and especially China, this is not the case. There are no laws protecting people in the lgbtq community (or at least not many) and trying to impose our way of thinking and living on a country IS DISCRIMINATION.

Your clumsily disguised bigotry and raw hate are duly noted.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 3202
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:47 pm Reply with quote
I would understand why they wouldn't with pressure from the studio higher ups but it would still be nice if some creative voices behind some of their shows known for having inclusive messages like Sailor Moon and Precure would speak out against Toei's atrocious behavior here.
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