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INTEREST: Wonder Egg Priority Director Shares Cut Context for Mannequins' Sexist Dialogue Scene in E


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bonbonsrus



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 1516
Location: Michigan, USA
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:10 pm Reply with quote
Way to explain something by not really saying anything helpful at all...
I am not sure this made things ANY clearer.

It makes it sound like only girls are easily influenced by their emotions into choosing permanent solutions for temporary situations in life, and only those who commit suicide as are tempted momentarily into believing this is the way but maybe didn't really want to die are the children that can be brought back if others want? Which of course none of those are males who are more decisive and less tempted by temporary emotions? Confused

Whatever it's trying to say, I can't see a way this story can fix these weird statements later by more revelations, but I'm into watching it either way.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2255
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:35 pm Reply with quote
Can we please address this in the HUGE CONTEXT that even prompted this conversation in the first place. One of the lead characters is POSSIBLE a trans/LGBT women and was misgendered by one of the other leads who then basically asked what was a guy doing here in the first place....

I mean the director tried to address one of the weirder conversations in the episode but how about addressing the larger issue that you are trying to talk about here....Because given the larger context I am very confused as to what the intent behind this scene was.

Is it that this explanation by the mannequins is trash and the new girl is wrong for deciding they are a girl like the rest of the cast....

Or is it that the mannequins are right and she is in the wrong for not accepting the new girl as another girl just like the rest of the cast.....

If there is some other explanation I would really appreciate hearing it

When it comes to their brains, boys and girls are also the same. Is this supposed to be some sort of there is difference between guys and girls sexual orientation isn't a real thing argument?

-edited to add the word Possible next to trans/LGBT women. I personally feel confident calling her that but I know it's really not my place to be saying that given my lack of knowledge on the subject


Last edited by Tanteikingdomkey on Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:05 am; edited 2 times in total
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OtherSideofSky



Joined: 19 May 2016
Posts: 247
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:00 am Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
Can we please address this in the HUGE CONTEXT that even prompted this conversation in the first place. One of the lead characters is a trans women and was misgendered by one of the other leads who then basically asked what was a guy doing here in the first place....

Based on the content of the episode, I sincerely doubt that Momoe is trans. It's certainly misleading to state that as if it's an established fact at this point.
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dm
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 831
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:04 am Reply with quote
Of all the things that could use some explanation in episode four, that little exchange between Rika and Neiru is, perhaps one of the lesser ones.

But being a lesser one, it might be okay to add a footnote for it.

I assume that some of the major things that happened or were said in episode four that are causing people to wonder where they are going with the series will, in fact, get answered in coming episodes (so will get their explanations in due time).

For context: about half of the 66 messages currently in the review thread on Wonder Egg Priority concern episode four.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2255
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:15 am Reply with quote
OtherSideofSky wrote:
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
Can we please address this in the HUGE CONTEXT that even prompted this conversation in the first place. One of the lead characters is a trans women and was misgendered by one of the other leads who then basically asked what was a guy doing here in the first place....

Based on the content of the episode, I sincerely doubt that Momoe is trans. It's certainly misleading to state that as if it's an established fact at this point.

I mean one the enemies said point blank to momoe in an additional battle she had.
"This is a womens only car! STUPID MAN! If you want to ride, then get it out! I'LL CHOP IT OFF FOR YOU!"" where Momoe then says I am a women and kills it.

Sure she has not said I am trans but you would then have to explain how the above could anything BUT she is a trans women unless I am misunderstanding something.

I have edited my previous post since I could be wrong. however I still maintain that it is
A) the most likely explanation and B) that any other non cis female explanation for momoe has the same yikes implications about both characters


Last edited by Tanteikingdomkey on Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Leviathonlx1



Joined: 10 Dec 2018
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:20 am Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
I am misunderstanding something.


You are. The bad guy called her a man since everyone except the main character thought she was a dude. There was no other meaning behind it.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:26 am Reply with quote
No, no, no, Director, that line makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! Please have the characters disagree with “accepted knowledge” like Acca’s BS gender essentialist suicide line as *clearly and unambiguously* as possible! Lots of people believe what Acca said, and letting it stand unchallenged made me wonder whether the show agreed. It wouldn’t be the first time an anime reinforced problematic and scientifically unsound ideas about gender. This anime deals with trauma, suicide, gender, and mental health (and LGBT+ issues, although it hasn’t confirmed Momoe’s identity yet—she could be a trans girl AMAB, or AFAB non-binary, or a cis girl taking on a “prince” role) and these sensitive topics that affect people in real life give the show all the more reason to spell out that it doesn’t ascribe to these assumptions.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:37 am Reply with quote
#890256 wrote:
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
UNLESS, I am misunderstanding something.


You are. The bad guy called her a man since everyone except the main character thought she was a dude. There was no other meaning behind it.

First learn the basic rules of how to quote something. I fixed your quote for you.

Second It was clearly a female who was yelling at her, because she was in the females only car.it would be really strange for a male to be talking like that or be in that situation. Also her "charge" recognized her as a female, and said "even as a girl I've fallen in love with you"

Third This conversation took place in a "realm" where abstract monsters that represent what caused you to commit suicide chase around their victims....So saying it has no meaning I find to be complete and utter bullshit.

Please try and make sure you actually understand a subject in the future before you correct someone else on it
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3113
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:51 am Reply with quote
Nah Momo isn't trans, that's pretty clear by one of the later conversation in the episode (unless were supposed to assume that a teenager biological guy got surgery to remove his adam apple, which makes no sense).

The train comment was because the audience was supposed to assume she was a guy at this point and it's supposed to be a big "WTF, she's a lady?!", but fall pretty flat cause I'm pretty sure everyone assumed she was a girl.
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TuffleShuffling



Joined: 08 Feb 2021
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:53 am Reply with quote
My interruption of the scene was that the two who seemingly profit of these girls are making generalised statements on how boys and girls are socialised and how that affects the reasons for their deaths. Neiru seemingly a goal focused person herself disagrees with this. After 4 episodes of this show and all the subject matter it tackles it feels unfair to me to read the scene as the writer/director making a such a reductive statement as fact through characters who we aren't supposed to trust in the first place ?
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blahmoomoo



Joined: 27 Jan 2020
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:00 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
No, no, no, Director, that line makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! Please have the characters disagree with “accepted knowledge” like Acca’s BS gender essentialist suicide line as *clearly and unambiguously* as possible! Lots of people believe what Acca said, and letting it stand unchallenged made me wonder whether the show agreed.


I really, really hope that this part mentioned in the article implies that the show will eventually show that the manikins are definitely in the wrong, and they withheld this line of dialog because it's a bit too early for the characters to directly speak against them:

Quote:
He also mentioned that there are still things that are coming up in the anime's broadcast.


To me, the whole egg system is really suspicious, and it seems clear that whatever is actually happening is not in the best interest of anybody participating. And the manikins' remarks probably aren't part of the story's message, but rather some kind of excuse for the system to exist (though I can't exactly say what that is). But everyone participating is desperate to bring someone back from the dead, and as long as the system stays quiet about its true intentions, they probably aren't going to question it that much. They really need to eventually, but not right now, and we're only 4 episodes in so there's plenty of time for them to get there.

This is all under the assumption that the story is going in a good direction. The problem is, when several things are currently morally ambiguous, they appear like at least one could go in the wrong direction. Or that things stated now could be the message of the story. And it could easily go that way. So things appear a bit precarious right now, but it could turn out really good if they steer it just right. We'll just have to see.
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TuffleShuffling



Joined: 08 Feb 2021
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:01 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
No, no, no, Director, that line makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! Please have the characters disagree with “accepted knowledge” like Acca’s BS gender essentialist suicide line as *clearly and unambiguously* as possible! Lots of people believe what Acca said, and letting it stand unchallenged made me wonder whether the show agreed. It wouldn’t be the first time an anime reinforced problematic and scientifically unsound ideas about gender. This anime deals with trauma, suicide, gender, and mental health (and LGBT+ issues, although it hasn’t confirmed Momoe’s identity yet—she could be a trans girl AMAB, or AFAB non-binary, or a cis girl taking on a “prince” role) and these sensitive topics that affect people in real life give the show all the more reason to spell out that it doesn’t ascribe to these assumptions.


Mmm, I get where you're coming from but would it be fair to argue that the anime has shown so far that it doesn't believe in that line of thinking ? Like if someone already believed in that line of thinking would an animated character who the audience has been encouraged to have suspicions of suddenly make them have an eureka moment and change their world view?
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2255
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:03 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Nah Momo isn't trans, that's pretty clear by one of the later conversation in the episode (unless were supposed to assume that a teenager biological guy got surgery to remove his adam apple, which makes no sense).

The train comment was because the audience was supposed to assume she was a guy at this point and it's supposed to be a big "WTF, she's a lady?!", but fall pretty flat cause I'm pretty sure everyone assumed she was a girl.

It could just be that it really doesn't show(like mine really doesn't) or they have already gone through the surgery already and are just older then everyone else.

However now that you mention that, the fact they clearly show her neck for a long time. I don't think that having them be trans is necessarily the right explanation. especially when I am not an expert on the subject

I would like to point out that currently you still have a main character going excuse me when she is called out about discriminating against an Probable LGBT character.

The show kinda needs to point out that she is actively in the wrong for doing that, and not just say WELL we can agree to disagree


Last edited by Tanteikingdomkey on Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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OtherSideofSky



Joined: 19 May 2016
Posts: 247
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:08 am Reply with quote
If we're looking at the context of that conversation, I think it's important to remember Neiru's line that starts it. She asks Acca what's going on and says that there "shouldn't" be any boys in a way that implies that a boy being there would contradict something she'd previously been told by Acca. We don't see how anyone but Ai first encounters Acca and the eggs, so how the situation was presented to them is still a mystery. (Rika also mistakes Momoe for a boy but thinks that makes sense, so clearly she wasn't told whatever Neiru was.)

Edit:
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
It could just be that it really doesn't show(like mine really doesn't) or they have already gone through the surgery already and are just older then everyone else.

However now that you mention that, the fact they clearly show her neck for a long time. I don't think that having them be trans is necessarily the right explanation. especially when I am not an expert on the subject

All four girls are 14, according to the show's website.
Also, Momoe wears a girl's school uniform in her flashback, which takes place in what looks like a school nurse's office. That makes me think that she must at least be officially recognized as a girl, and makes me think that there's another reason for her more masculine presentation in her casual clothes (especially in the egg dimension, where she consistently uses "boku").
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2255
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:18 am Reply with quote
OtherSideofSky wrote:
If we're looking at the context of that conversation, I think it's important to remember Neiru's line that starts it. She asks Acca what's going on and says that there "shouldn't" be any boys in a way that implies that a boy being there would contradict something she'd previously been told by Acca. We don't see how anyone but Ai first encounters Acca and the eggs, so how the situation was presented to them is still a mystery. (Rika also mistakes Momoe for a boy but thinks that makes sense, so clearly she wasn't told whatever Neiru was.)

Yay that is a very good point. honestly this is just yet another set of worms that REALLY should get addressed ASAP when the director is quite possible digging an even bigger terf hole to throw Neiru into. which could become a big problem fast when the show is about trauma and gender.

I didn't catch that she uses boku ever since I really don't know japanese (same reason for not checking the JP site). to be fair the show has at least 8 episodes left to fill stuff in so...
Honestly I assumed the uniform thing could be like fruits basket where characters just get away with it, or she just passed very well, but you could easily be right.
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