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NEWS: Manga Market in Japan Hits Record 612.6 Billion Yen in 2020

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Joined: 17 Dec 2016
Posts: 58
Location: Cairo, Egypt
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:30 pm Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:

As always, people's issue isn't 'politics exist', just when they're hamfisted and awful.

That's why I said this in my post;

Basically, it's not the politics or topics like racism or whether something is "woke" that's the issue, it's the execution or the quality of writing that's the issue.

So I agree with you there.

However, there are people out there who pretend Anime never got political or tackled themes such as bigotry, those are the people I'm talking about and they exist, I should know I came across a number of them.

I wasn't talking about replacing/killing established characters when I talk about stuff being "woke", though that being said when Kamala Khan came out she started to gain a decent following and her 2014-2015 series actually had healthy sales nowhere close to stop Marvel characters but decent sales for a new character (it was actually close to Brian Reed's acclaimed 2006 run on Ms. Marvel in terms of sales and that was without event tie-ins and crossovers that 2006 run had) but then Marvel put all their titles on hold for that stupid Secret War event hurt her momentum, relaunched the title, overhyped the character and had her be written by writers who didn't know how to write her and completely wasted her potential, which is why her title has seen the same healthy sales her 2014-2015 series had. This video goes into details about the titles sales from 2014 to recently.

And a statement like "western comics are almost dead" like that person I replied to is kind of a misleading statement as "western comics" can also be applied to Graphic Novels or YA books like Dog Man and Superman Smashes The Klan which still sell well or European comics that not only still sell there but like manga tackles themes including politics or racism (Judge Dredd can get really in your face about politics and it's like that since the 80s or how Rivers of London series, features a diverse cast of characters and doesn't make a big deal about it) though that didn't stop certain people from trying to target those as "woke trash" even though some of those existed way before the term woke existed and are actually liked by a lot of readers in that part of the world and like I said Superman Smashes The Klan, a book that was attacked for being "woke" by certain people online actually sold well.

Also Moriarty may not be the "hero", however the manga still highlights the injustice of the class as one of its major themes and Sherlock the actual "hero" acknowledges it and obviously has negative opinions of the class system.

Didn't stop members of the anti-woke from putting it on their hitlist, here's what one guy said about the manga's author Ryōsuke Takeuchi in one of the comments of Bleeding Fool's article on the manga:

This is a recurring theme from writers with pampered overprivileged backgrounds - "I wasn't given everything I feel I deserve from my rich parents, so now I'm a communist revolutionary!" These writers need to work in an honest job for a few years, and find out what reality is really like.

The anti-woke crowd tried to target certain anime like Beastars or BNA for using analogies to tackle similar themes but were quickly stomped because the majority actually likes those.

So again, it doesn't matter if something is "woke", if it's done well people will like it (like Zootopia), if not then people will reject it (like the Ghostbusters reboot).

I can't stand "woke" people but I can't stand anti-woke people either as I find them both annoying and think they overexaggerate things. So I'm on neither bandwagons.
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Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 212
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:10 am Reply with quote
BBally wrote:
The anti-woke crowd tried to target certain anime like Beastars or BNA for using analogies to tackle similar themes but were quickly stomped because the majority actually likes those.

From what I remember all the complaints about BNA/Beastars was about how it portrayed the discriminated people as actually being dangerous, thus justifying the prejudice against them. But that seems to be the case for every racism allegory that uses fictional stand-ins.

In my opinion if the most political example people can think of is point to Miyazaki and say he's an environmentalist and anti-war then I'd say that speaks volumes on this subject. Especially compared to some of the truth insane takes I've seen American comic writers have like wishing death on half of the country. When people complain about "politics in media" it's always in response to something specific that happens that directly affects the fans like a character being replaced with a new version or someone being gender or race swapped, an artist being fired for drawing a woman too sexy, censorship,, or other situation along those lines. I doubt anyone cares if a work just says "war is bad' or some other completely benign take that no one would realistically disagree with. I've never seen anyone get upset over that.
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Psycho 101

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16026
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:

Maybe he did exaccerate a bit, but it's a fact super hero comics/graphic novels have been in decline over the past years;
Surprising New Data Shows Comic Readers Are Leaving Superheroes Behind
Tilting at Windmills #281 – Looking at BookScan: 2019

Superhero comics are just one facet of "western" comics. The non-super hero comics are as popular, if not more so, with more and more titles (that are not super hero themed) being given a much larger audience. The majority of those are also not "woke" either, to deal with the other trollish claim. You're little attempt to frame one part of the industry as indicative of the entire industry is rather disingenuous as well. It would be no different then claiming shonen sales are down and therefore all manga sales are down. But then again, that's par for the course with you. Change or alter facts, and move goalposts, to fit your narrative and preconceived notions. Then being belligerent to the users who question you. Which is why your one response got removed.

Moving on.

On a separate note let's move on past the "woke" debate as it is off topic.
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