Forum - View topicINTEREST: 'So I'm a Spider, So What?' Manga Artist Praises the 'Vulgarity' of Mushoku Tensei's Setti
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phoenix72
Posts: 31 |
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the removed bit they are referring to is why everyone initially started calling him a pedo. after mushokus webnovel finished the author started making a series of extra sidestories set after during and before the series. one of which about aisha was incredibly terrible and effectively committed character assassination to all the characters in it (this is where everyone is getting that the vid in ep one was webcam footage of rudys niece) the chapter outraged the entire reader base and rifujin removed it from canon (not that we can really consider anything in the WN canon anyway as now its effectively just the rough draft). im sure if rifujin rewrote it now the webcam footage bit wouldn't be in it as he's no longer committed to making young and past life rudy as garbage as possible by using gross out reveals like that. (dont get me wrong he is still committed to that just not in the same way) |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
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I’m talking about how disingenuous you are in every post you’ve made in every thread on this series, and how you continue to do so. Just like how you’ve once again chosen to gloss over that and the fact you continually downplay his pedophilia once someone calls you out on it. And I’m not making any mistake because I’m talking about framing. At no point have I even come close to declaring that a protagonist has to be a good person. But it’s really convenient for you to pretend I did because it lets you once again pretend you weren’t saying what you were saying. Just like how you’ve added this habit of ending every post with ellipses so you can pretend you’re making some kind of point when all you’re doing is trying to leave things as open-ended as possible so that you can say you aren’t saying what you’re saying. It’s tiresome, dull, and plenty of the responses here have shown that no one is really falling for it. |
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Shay Guy
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@Blanchimont: Would you say MT fits into the pattern of character arc structure that I laid out earlier? If so, can you elaborate on the specifics of cause-and-effect?
(Or if there's another form for character arcs that anyone thinks it fits better, I'd be interested to hear.)
No, that's in the prologue to the main story. I mentioned it in my first post in this thread. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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@Blanchimont - I think you're done in this conversation. You've continued the same rhetoric here as you've done in almost every other thread on this show, and on Redo discussions previously as well. You continue to gloss over anything people bring up in regards to the sheer disgusting behavior Rudy portrays, and how the series clearly does not properly punish him for it. You keep bringing up character growth and ignoring how people keep pointing out that it's not real growth when he keeps up with the same type of behavior. There are many other points brought up that you just simply continue to ignore so you can continue to downplay his actions in the series. You continue the same bad faith circular gymnastics and arguments over and over ignoring what people are saying. The best example is how you can sit there and say how Roxy is not underaged, but yet turn around and say that Rudy is just a child and not the adult that he really is. It's hypocritical bs.
So you're done here. Stick to the show's streaming thread. I also suggest in that discussion you come up with new points to make and not the same old circular points. |
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MarshalBanana
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Tanteikingdomkey
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SO can we now talk about that OH SO WONDERFUL timing of the actual post in question and episode 8 of the series, and its rape scene of a 12 year old. I mean that is just really suspect to me in all of this.
@psycho101 thank you the rest of us here all appreciate it |
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Shay Guy
Posts: 2116 |
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Do you mean that her portrayal of sexuality is as cookie-cutter as what she criticizes? |
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Thaumana
 Posts: 120 |
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It is generally refreshing to see all kind of different sex situations included in a story-focused epic isekai adventure anime. I personally like it just to know that this element is an ordinary part of the world, which makes it more authentic and mature in my perception.
I rather try to avoid the term "realistic" because I still view this world, the story and the characters as part of fantasy fiction. Just because I'm enjoying the series for all its facets doesn't mean that I hold the exact same view about the depicted subjects as I do in reality. Still, debates about normalizing explicit themes in pop culture media are important, and I think that once you take a stand in this discussion as someone who enjoys that kind of media, it's good to get an understanding of why some people feel morally and ethnically offended by certain content or depictions at least - simply because there will always be people who strongly translate certain issues from fiction to their own familiar lifeworld and reality. There is generally nothing wrong about it. I'm fully aware that the characters are fiction and so is the world. I can enjoy it without getting into a dilemma that my joy will harm any real human as long as I can clearly differ the ethical viewpoints that are conveyed in that media from humanitarian values of our reality. Last edited by Thaumana on Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MarshalBanana
Posts: 5317 |
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I can't believe my comment got altered. I went easy as I know how strict the rules are on this site. I'm sure I've seen more harsh comments slip through on these forums before. |
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OtherSideofSky
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OK, first of all, the idea that anyone can read book 4, where Rudeus literally says that spoiler[he's into girls (and feminine-looking men) from ages 12 to 40 ("女の子 なら 下 は 十 二、 上 は 四十 まで イケ ます けど。 男 は 女の子 みたい な 顔 を し て ない と 無理 です よ," book 4, chapter 7)] and still argue that he's not a pedophile is hard to take seriously. Even if you take that line as a joke, his narration in chapters 2 and (especially) 6 is inescapable. He seems to have learned his lesson about doing anything physical, but it's still gross.
The people arguing that he only undergoes the illusion of growth, however, are also ignoring the text. The way he deals with financial responsibilities over the course of book 3, realizing just how much he took for granted is a real arc with ups and downs, and the lessons he learns about communication and trust at the end of it do factor into his behavior after that point. That's what makes Mushoku Tensei so frustrating—there's an increasing amount of good material punctuated by a scattering of scenes that make you say, "Oh no, not this again." Rudeus, as the narrator, frames his own arc in book 1 as being about his failure to work hard, commit to things, overcome his fears, and be a productive member of society. The title and subtitle both reinforce this idea. The defining characteristic of past-Rudeus is "joblessness" (無職), and the defining characteristic of his new life is "making a serious effort" (本気だす). As others have already pointed out, however, "joblessness" was far from the only or worst thing wrong with him. I have no idea if the series sees Rudeus's lack of respect for other people's sexual boundaries as an issue to be fixed, since I've only read a fifth of it, but I hope it will eventually. (I have to read the whole thing, so I cling to optimism. I would never have made it past book 2 on my own.) As far as I've read, however, most of it is played for comedy. (By "most," I mean everything Rudeus does except that scene with Eris that was in episode 8 of the anime.) It's not pleasant, and I wish that the author had a better idea of where to draw the line if they wanted those scenes to be comic relief. (I can't imagine they're meant to be titillating, because Mushoku Tensei is usually conspicuously terse when it comes to describing bodies.) |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16935 |
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The fact is, as you yourself just pointed out, every time there is any "growth" on his part it's right back to the "oh no not this again" moments and behavior. So while there may be growth in some aspects of his character, there is little to none in regards to the core problems with his character and personality. The parts that continuously get treated as a joke and as if it's all cool. So how do you expect people to take any growth, in other smaller areas, seriously when at the core of who he is there is little to no growth nor admittance of wrong doing? How do you not expect people to simply be tired of being told how he matures or grows in this episode, only to tune in and see him go right back to the same shitty behavior and conduct? I do not, and will not, condone his past actions or prescribe to the idea of he is a different person simply because his consciousness got transferred to a new body. If there was any true growth on those core aspects and deviances of his there would at least then be room for people to wait and see where the rest of the story goes. It would not condone those past actions, but it would at least give viewers some sort of more positive pay out for continuing with the series and seeing him admit "I was disgusting and want to change". That has not happened though, and by all accounts from the source material it doesn't happen at all to any sort of real level. I do agree it is frustrating to see such animation and possibility, within the world building and other characters, be wasted like this with an MC that can entirely overshadow all of it. That is frustrating. |
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OtherSideofSky
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I don't "expect" people to do anything. Please don't put words in my mouth and set me up to argue for positions I don't hold. I already told you (in a sentence you conveniently didn't quote) that I would not have stuck with the series as far as I have if I didn't have to, and that I would have given up by the point the anime is at if I had started reading it on my own. Why do you expect me to tell other people to do something I wouldn't do myself? Book 2 made me want to scream, and the gross shit wasn't even the only reason. Since I am stuck reading it all, however, I want to talk about it and break down my thoughts on it. I think there's probably an interesting article to be gotten out of this disconnect in framing, and I hope to write one someday. (On the topic of how the series approaches sexuality in general, I'm interested to see how it chooses to portray two characters I've only seen a little of so far more than in Rudeus, since that side of him seems to be fairly static since book 3.) |
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Tanteikingdomkey
Posts: 2346 |
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I think a lot of us would really appreciate reading that article. Because a lot of the frustration around this series (at least for me), is that there are quite a lot of thing I would really like to experience. but having to choke down vomit every time rudy acts like a pedophile is just to much for me to deal with. |
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Shay Guy
Posts: 2116 |
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First of all, you're the first person to use the word "offended" in this thread. Second, you're avoiding specifying the content.
Do you think anyone watching, reading, or discussing MT isn't aware of that?
This is not, as far as I know, something anyone in any of these ANN threads has claimed.
Er... what, "busty woman wears shirt showing lots of cleavage"? I don't think that responds to Yamamoto's point at all, or Moore's.
You have my interest. Where would one be able to read it? One question that occurs to me, on the subject of what passes for Rudeus's character growth, is whether Mushoku Tensei competently executes the sub-arcs it does go for, assuming you can stomach the elephant-in-the-room portrayal of predatory sexual behavior as inconsequential. (I consider it perfectly reasonable to not care about this question, in light of the aforementioned elephant.) Persevering through not immediately being the best at new skills, holding a job, managing finances, all the stuff you've talked about. Does he have to meaningfully struggle to break his old habits? Does he just decide to make the right decisions this time, then do so? Does he have to deal with the same issue Subaru had already been confronted with over in Re:Zero when MT started (at the time being in Arc 3, shortly after his fight with Emilia), the fact that just going somewhere else doesn't mean you leave all your baggage behind, and you still have to actually deal with it? As I've said, my own memories are fuzzy. But I find it striking that MT challenges him with the prospect of having to struggle and be patient to develop a skill, then rewards him by having him improve more than anyone else (because something something toddler mana reservoir plasticity). That feels like a misstep. |
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helln00
Posts: 106 |
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yeah I feel the same. I also want to add that its not just Rudeus but the show itself that is fine with his behaviour. The bedroom scene had long shots over Eris's body with playful music in the background while Rudeus touches her, it is in no way showing that this is suppose to be a bad thing. I just think that there could have been so many ways Rudeus could hav been done that could have balanced the growth vs being bad right now dichotomy compare to what we have now. I think however that we are stuck with this for better or for worse and sadly I think the show already gave us the thesis statement for how it views Rudeus's perversion/pedophelia in ep 4. When the maid was having her monolounge thinking about Rudeus, it basically went: "I used to think of him as a weird perverted demon child, but I shall do that no longer and serve him". Which I think will be how the show deals with this behaviour, saying "its fine as long as he is a good person, he can be a pervert/pedo". Which might have been fine if his behaviour wasn't crotch grabbing 12 year olds. |
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