Forum - View topicA Brief Anime History of The Himbo
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Hal14
 Posts: 667 Location: Heart of africa |
|
|||
I agree that liking himbos doesn't hurt anyone but it's not strange for there to be any vitriol towards a fictional character type. I mean, 3 out of the 4 examples you listed get varying degrees of hate. I think the descending order would be "Tsundere", "Manic Pixie Dream Girl", then "good badboy". Personally, though, I feel the examples listed in the article and this thread feel pretty broad. Broad enough that I can kind of understand @psycho101's frustration at trying to put a label on it. |
||||
|
||||
|
ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 2945 Location: Email for assistance only |
|
|||
|
I think "hate" is a strong word there. Just as someone can 'like' a himbo, someone could find the character 'annoying' in the same way that people might find the three examples I listed as 'annoying.' An important part to keep in mind is that those three examples are also more prominent than himbo; that's why people are more likely to get annoyed or bored with them. That I do expect: if you see the same thing over and over in a story it gets boring.
But I haven't seen the claim in here yet of "I think himbos are overdone, I'm bored by them and wish we'd get more XYZ types in stories" which are more common for the female audience complaints for tsundere and MPDG. We could also discuss the sexism element that those tropes reinforce but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that I'm not really interested in regurgitating right now. What I've seen instead is weirdly misplaced anger at acknowledging this trope exists at all, insinuations that it's ablelist or commodifies neurodivergent people, or that it's sad and/or pathetic that women like this type of character to begin with which is just WHOA. I get the reaction of seeing the shoe on the other foot but jc. |
||||
|
||||
|
Hal14
Posts: 667 Location: Heart of africa |
|
|||
|
My mistake. When you listed those particular character tropes I thought hate was what you were referring to.
|
||||
|
||||
|
ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 2945 Location: Email for assistance only |
|
|||
|
No problem! I was just listing them as common character types. No like/dislike was meant to be implied.
|
||||
|
||||
Helix91
 SubscriberPosts: 62 |
|
|||
|
Maybe this shouldn't have to be pointed out, but people often separate tropes they like in fictional characters from character traits they prefer in a real life partner. Many himbo fans wouldn't actually want to date a man who they thought was dumb as a rock, just as many tsundere fans woudn't want to date a woman who yells at them every day. Yes fiction influences people's perception of reality, but it's not a simple 1 to 1 translation.
|
||||
|
||||
|
paworksfan
Posts: 9 |
|
|||
|
Creators in the manga and anime are more socially conservative than they are in western media even when they are progressive or even radical on military, economic, environmental or other issues so you aren't going to encounter this mindset outside of explicitly feminist works and you aren't even guaranteed to within them.
Another cultural difference thing here: the difference between eastern and western classic hero traditions and the character types that they spawned. The west views evil or adversity in moral terms so its heroes need perfection - a combination of moral purity and martial prowess - to be able to defend themselves and others. The western hero standard: Superman (not the failed attempts to "modernize" him). Eastern tradition views evil very differently so their heroes are going to have a mixture of virtues and vices. The standard for eastern heroes: the Journey to the West trio. Or actually selected characteristics from the very complex Sun Wukong (great fighter, rebel, hot-blooded), Pigsy (greedy, gluttonous, perverted, dumb), Sandy (good fighter, loyalty/devotion) characters were over time folded into a single - and far simpler - "monkey king" character. And the monkey king's DNA is on countless manga and anime heroes. Obviously Son Goku as Dragon Ball was originally a Journey to the West parody (of the later tradition, not the original). But also Ichigo from Bleach, Monkey D. Luffy of One Piece and Naruto (even his "shadow clones" came from Sun Wukong). Even the importance of the training arc(s). Western heroes are either born with their powers or are granted them in a single incident. Beyond a brief "origin story" they simply use their powers going forward with a little fine-tuning. By contrast the monkey king obtained his via intense taoist practice, which is why training/power leveling is so important to manga and anime. Finally: it didn't merely influence male characters. Usagi from Sailor Moon, Maika from Fuishi Yuugi, Lina Inverse from Slayers, Cure Black from Precure, Hikaru from Magic Knight Rayearth, Motoko and Deunan from Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed (the manga originals and NOT the adaptations), Akari from Coffin Princess Chaika etc. are all monkey king types. So this isn't "nonthreatening to women because they are dumb" at all. Particularly since there is absolutely no evidence that less intelligent men constitute a lesser threat. Statistics certainly do not bear this out, plus chivalry/gentility traditions in the east and west have generally regarded the opposite to be the case. Going back to the trio of the original Journey to the West story: Sandy had the least character flaws and was the smartest; Pigsy had the most - particularly with his treatment of women - and was the dumbest. Instead, what you have is this very common hero character type bleeding into other genres. If a writer uses the monkey king type as the hero - or heroine - in an action manga, you can bet that a version of the same is going to be recycled into the writer's romcom or slice of life manga. |
||||
|
||||
Dovah
 Posts: 18 |
|
|||
As a young man that recently graduated from puberty (I'm 22), I must have missed those lessons. Was "How to Hurt Women 101" optional or was it supposed to come with the package of being a man? I've never hurt a woman (or anyone else for that matter), and I don't know any men that have. Now I'm not saying that abusive men don't exist, they obviously do, but blanket statements like that which suggest that all men are beasts waiting to strike with a wide array of tools at their disposal don't do anyone any good. What I do know of are men that have been mentally and physically abused by their female partners and left abandoned, with only myself left to pick up the pieces. Besides a (hopefully) good friend, the only thing they've had for support after the fact is a bottle and a loaded gun. Abuse goes both ways, and there are plenty of women that have been taught by their culture to hit when exactly where it hurts the most. There's a lot that men don't understand about women, and there's a lot that women don't understand about men. It is only by mending this divide that we can ever hope to respect each other as equals. Honestly that original statement is borderline misandry, and it's statements like it that help nudge men towards alt-right movements (which uncoincidentally seem to be getting bigger every year). When a society constantly paints a group as villains, there comes a point where they have had enough and may just decide to become the villain you cast them as. I agree with a lot of what's written in the article, but lines like that poison the entire argument. It's a complete non-starter for honest and serious discourse. |
||||
|
||||
El Hermano
 Posts: 450 Location: Texas |
|
|||
|
I honestly always thought the "respects women' thing was a meme and not something serious, since in most cases of people using it in "himbo discussion" it's used fictitiously and in exaggeration. A lot of himbo examples people use are characters don't even interact with women much, if at all, let alone in a romantic sense, so there's no real way of knowing how they would act in that situation. It always came off like one of those headcanon/fanfic things people do. I mean, I would assume people saying things like "Galo is a gay himbo who hangs out in bars every night protecting women from creeps while tipping the female waitresses extra because he respects them" is done in jest and not actually being taken seriously, considering his social interactions with women in the actual movie are limited and not really explored. Although I suppose like anything else, people who do things in jest will eventually find themselves joined by people who are being genuine.
|
||||
|
||||
|
ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 2945 Location: Email for assistance only |
|
|||
|
You're conflating two things that aren't related.
The "respects women" meme is legitimate in that people make it and share it because they think it's a genuinely good character trait. Yes it's a little tongue-in-cheek. The character fic comic scenarios are people in fandom expressing headcanon in a way that seems fun. "Himbo" is not by definition related to any of these things. Like I reiterated earlier, it's simply a character type. It's also, again a double-standard, to hinge the believability of such a character's desirability on textual romantic content. Calling someone your "waifu" or "husbando" had never been reliant on how much romance is actually within a series, it's simply an attraction to a character type. There are untold number of shows targeting men that only star female characters and are created specifically for viewers to pick their favorite. The characters never have to encounter a male character for this to work. Now, it'd be supercool if the straight dudes let anyone else engage in the topic discussion. You've encountered a topic that isn't for you by design, and I get that that might be part of your confusion, but I think everyone else has done a decent job explaining what this is, including the actual article itself, and how it's literally no different the female counterparts that are designed for you. |
||||
|
||||
|
鏡
|
|
|||
people really log onto this website just to say nonsense |
||||
|
Multi-Facets
Posts: 216 |
|
|||
|
Quick question: Is the Justy Tyler mentioned the irresponsible captain, or the psychic cosmic policeman?
|
||||
|
||||
|
all-tsun-and-no-dere
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 605 |
|
|||
Considering she's talking about 90's anime in that paragraph, I presume it's the irresponsible captain. My favorite way to figure out if a character is a himbo is the "Brendan Fraser test," as invented by my friend: can you picture him being played by Brendan Fraser? If yes, he's a himbo. If not, then he probably isn't. I've gotten into some serious arguments about whether characters qualify as himbos, because while I know language will evolve how it will, I don't want to see it becoming broad to the point of uselessness like terms like "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" and "Mary Sue" did. |
||||
|
||||
|
Multi-Facets
Posts: 216 |
|
|||
Cool, thank you.
Oh, I like that qualification. Your friend may be on to something. 
|
||||
|
||||
|
Raneth
Posts: 271 |
|
|||
|
This is an interesting article. I've started coming across the term himbo a lot to describe characters, and I do wonder...what percentage of people are actually attracted to these himbo characters? I definitely have my male character archetypes that I enjoy, and they do have the element of harmlessness, but it's usually because they're servile or loyal, or kind, as well as beefcake, not necessarily because they're dumb. Or maybe my definition of himbo is too narrow.
I guess the stupidity of himbos seems like it may preclude attraction in some cases? They are harmless, but I know for some people the last thing they want is a guy too dumb to take care of himself, so some level of competence is required. Too much stupidity or lack of common sense and the guy turns into just another thing to do emotional labor for. Also, some of the examples given, like Goku or Kuwabara, were never really objects of lust for anyone in my circles growing up. They were likable characters, to be sure, but people didn't have the same draw to them that they dd for characters like Vegeta or Kurama. In Yuri on Ice, I guess King J.J. could be a himbo, but I don't think he got as much attention as characters like Victor, who I wouldn't describe as a himbo. Himbos seem more like the harmless friend you like to ogle, but maybe not the guy you date? I guess in sum I'd love to see more articles like this that also explore other male character archetypes, since I haven't seen it done as often. Himbos are neat, and the article explains well why it may work for some, but I wonder how they stack against other male archetypes on the scale of attraction/likeability. |
||||
|
||||
Shay Guy
 Posts: 2115 |
|
|||
|
Lemme see if I have things straight...
|
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group