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I almost dropped this after the first 5 minutes. But I came back to it.'

It isn't exactly "bullying" that I have a problem with in these shows. I have a problem with embarrassment. Not someone embarrassing someone else, but someone being embarrassed, feeling worthless, and not seeing a way out of it. That's my big trigger.

It's why I dropped Takagi-san (That kid was always painfully embarrassed and unable to get around it) and had no problem with Uzaki-chan (that guy was never truly embarrassed and bettered himself by dealing with Uzaki).

And I guess there's something a little different about Sempai too. It's isn't pure embarrassment, he may not want to, but he sincerely interacts with Nagatoro. Nagatoro's harsh teasing seems to be forcing him to face his issues. In the first episode, he was genuinely interested in her feedback about how pathetic the scene with his hero and the heroine was. You can bet he changed it after that.

And his flashback to previous bullying did show a difference. Before, he really did go into "turtle" mode, but he doesn't with Nagatoro and even admits to her that there's a part of him that values having interaction with her (with anyone, probably).

Last edited by Panino Manino on Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

#3
I was commenting on Twitter and a thought came to mind very naturally.
Is, perhaps, Nagatoro-san a "misunderstood masterpiece"?

Not that I mean it is a masterpiece, but I'm series.
If you pick to watch and can't finish the episodes because it makes you too uncomfortable, fair.
But if you can bear the "second hand embarrassment", can you put some effort into thinking how this story works? I did this and to me this all seems to make a lot of sense.

Yes, is unquestionable that Nagatoro is a sadist. Some times she says things that really bother Senpai, that he can't ignore and hurts him a bit, she sees these reactions and likes what she does to him, because she is a sadist. However just because a characters does something that it's not cool and would be better if she didn't that the whole anime is bad and wrong, right? I don't think this is one of those plenty of questionable animes we are seeing recently. Aside from these moments, Nagaroto is not trying to hurt him, right? There's plently of evidence that this is just her normal behavior. It's bad for shy people that are not accustomed and like noise people but also not wrong either. The cafeteria scene is a strong evident to this claim, look how Nagatoro interacts with her friends, looks how they banter without certain limits and how that one friend intentionally crosses these limits to probe into Nagatoro.
Definitively this isn't just mean people being mean with other people, these characters are not as shallow as they could appear in the beginning.

Surprisingly, the Senpai looks stronger than he looks.
When he entered Nagatoro's house he started imagining how he could be abused by her parents but he didn't really seem to care, like it was something natural that he was accustomed and didn't needed to, at least, not panic and cry too much beforehand.
And in the end Nagaroto tried to teach him how to interact he people like her, to teach him that to not mind too much what he says and does that the others will not care as long and they all can laugh together. He seems to be not so shy inside and may learn very fast o open up to other people.

Now, I wonder if the people who got really mad at this anime will notice these details and forgive their first impressions if the series continues like this or if this will be another After the Rain and some will die mad about it.

I will say that it is starting to seem more on the side that Senpai is pretty dense to Nagatoro's intentions, and or his self confidence is so low that he doesn't understand her intentions. The cafeteria scene I don't think was Nagatoro trying to actually put him down, it might not have been a real showing off the boyfriend thing but was pretty close. Kind of seems true that the girls tease each other a bit as some affection, and Nagatoro clearly did not like any part of her friends actually teasing him, and really was kind of just showing off that he is hers. One of her friends did not seem to get it, but the other one did look to understand it by the end. She also seemed a bit ticked off when he denied being her boyfriend so strongly.

I am also going to be honest, the him accidentally touching her boob or something, I think they have come across a bit more tasteful than similar scenes in Uzaki-chan, which I would say could be a bit more exploitive of Uzaki's large size. Granted that Uzaki is an adult compared to teenage Nagatoro, but I will continue to draw some comparisons and contrasts, not that a larger size has to mean sexualised, I still think it was one pitfall in that series in what it sometimes focused on.

At this point, does seem like a bit of a battle of Senpai being dense or low self-esteem, with Nagatoro's sadism that I would wonder if she might feel bad out of the moment.

Of course she likes him, but like is not the same as love.
She likes him and this sentiment may go nowhere, so I don't think if fitting to can Senpai "dense", because he already understood enough, that she "likes" to tease him.
And talking about understanding, it's wonderful that we can actually see their interactions evolve in just three episodes? They are clearly learning about each other, how to react, how the other should react and adapt. Which leads to embarrassing moments when both change their reaction a little bit like in the see through scene in the beginning.

DuskyPredator wrote:

I am also going to be honest, the him accidentally touching her boob or something, I think they have come across a bit more tasteful than (...)

This scene is actually a very good example of something that this anime is doing surprisingly very right. The interactions feels natural, the characters move fast and don't think too much. Despite Nagatoro's exaggeration she is feeling much more "humane" than many other anime characters.

The second and third episodes of this show have really seemed like a whole different vibe from the first episode to me. The first just felt SO mean spirited I wasn't sure who would watch this. It seemed to have completely mellowed with the next few eps, to where it does seem more like extreme teasing because she likes him, vs at the beginning where it seemed like she didn't like him at all to me.

I did like how she was happy to be picking on him but didn't seem really fine with anyone else doing that to him (her friends at lunchtime) and how she seemed at least a little put out at the thought that he didn't consider himself her boyfriend when she asked 'him how would you define our relationship' after.

She certainly does go out of her way to ask things in a way that sounds lewd and then tries to make it seem like he's the closeted perv when she is making sure those thoughts are always in his mind.

I am certainly glad the tone has shifted in this show a bit so I'm not dreading watching it.

#4
Ignoring all that's not right, there's nothing wrong with this relationship. Laughing

Nagatoro pushes a bit too much, I would say unnecessarily, which leads to those "incidents" from time to time. But would I be forgiving for saying that it's in part Senpai's fault? Like I said before there's a logic behind these interactions, one that is not all "evil". Nagatoro herself warms Senpai about this, that he should act more honest and less defensive.

Well, I'm out. The schtick is just too repetitive and boring. It seems virtually all the vignettes are about sexually embarrassing Senpai. Yawn. Bye-bye.

I need to better standardize my comments... Commenting more seriously now still trying to crack this nut, don’t remember kids these days but I remember seeing similar things happening (mostly with defenseless shotas). Anyway that aside, the writing in this series is not dumb. The whole boobies skit was made in a way to show that there’s really a difference between Nagataro’s teasing/bullying and other’s teasing/bullying. This ties with what she says in the end, that Senpai needs to learn to be more active and have the guts to do the things that he wants without panicking so much, because the why he is now he is losing a lot of harmless fun. The difference is that Natagoro always incentives Senpai, trying to convince him to do the action, she does not force him, unlike her friends who actually grabbed and forced his hand.

Nagatoro had already picked his wish of being recognized by his art in the first episode, I think. I suspect that she actually likes his mangas and that he puts effort in his hobby.

1-4:

I didn't think I would follow this show, but I've been having a lot of spare time lately.

Ah, I get it. It's Uzaki-chan all over again. Not that I have a problem with it but it is what it is. And in both cases, it's a senpai-kouhai pairing. How similar can they get. But there are some important distinctions I must point out here. One, in terms of the art of teasing, Nagatoro is more savage than Uzaki. But two, and more importantly, the guy is different. Not just different, but his archetype is different altogether.

See, in an Odd couple/boke-tsukkomi pairing, one plays the Funny Man. Clearly that's Nagatoro. The other one plays the Straight Man. That's Senpai (funny, his name isn't revealed yet). But Uzaki's Senpai and Nagatoro's Senpai are two different archetypes of Senpai. There are two kinds of Straight Man in this kind of setup: 1) a humorless, straight-laced Straight Man (e.g. Uzaki's Senpai), or 2) a spineless, virgin-type Straight Man (e.g. Nagatoro's Senpai), The key here is that the Straight Man must be complementary to Nagatoro's role. Not necessarily opposite, mind you. They must have chemistry for the material to work. The opposite of someone like Nagatoro is someone who's apathetic. That's opposite. Clearly that's not Senpai's role.

Now Nagatoro's role... well, I think it's obvious. Guys, do you remember the time when you were at the playground as a kid, and there's always this girl who keeps picking at you? And your mom would say, "if she picks on you, that means she likes you!"? Yeah, that's Nagatoro. In episode 1, I thought she's plain bullying him. But from episode 2 onwards, I can tell that she's teasing him (and yes, because she likes him). I make a distinction between bullying and teasing for reason: malice. There's clearly no malice in Nagatoro's teasing, and furthermore, we've seen that there are certain lines she doesn't cross. Calling him her "toy"? Fine. Belittling him as a "bug"? Not cool.

Okay, I'm overthinking about a show that's simple in nature. I digress. It's just Uzaki-chan with a different makeover. Sure, the material's bound to be repetitive (that's why this kind of comedy doesn't last too long). The only development I'm going to see is that Senpai will eventually grow a spine and let loose a little. Isn't that what Nagatoro's clearly trying to do? And in turn, Nagatoro's teasing will ease and she's going to be nicer to him.

I'm just going to sit back and watch. I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking, because it's not a groundbreaking show. But hey, Uzaki-chan was a nice watch to pass the time. Probably so is this one too.

Meh, I was a big fan of Uzaki-chan, but as I noted above, I've dropped this. To me, the big difference in the shows is that they found new ways for Uzaki-chan to irritate her senpai as opposed to ringing the same gong that Nagatoro does: "zomg, senpai, you're such a closet perv and now I'm going to sexually embarrass you for the ten billionth time."

Oh, anime ended already? I didn't noticed.
A shame that their relationship didn't evolved more than what I had noticed in those first episodes.

5:

Nagatoro: "(somesomething)!"
Senpai: "I'm not!"
"Orly? Try me, you won't!"
"Okay..."
**backs out**

Routine, I know.

I swear, the second-half of the episode is literally taken from Uzaki. Down to the indirect-kiss trope. Just cut Nagatoro/Senpai out and paste it with Uzaki/Shinichi, and you can't tell one show from another.

Nope. I've pointed it out before but Uzaki-chan changed its pitch up way more than this one. It didn't fixate on sexual embarrassment the way this one did for its first 4 eppies. Whether one show is "better" than the other is a matter of opinion but my above statement about fixation on sexual embarrassment is objective fact.

I don't know, I am enjoying it. For the record, the segments of this episode included:

Segment 1: Nagataro has a nightmare that senpai became disinterested, and her friends did the not teasing thing and stole him away. But things are fine in the waking world, he even put a sheet over her while sleeping.

Segment 2: Nagataro teases him that he is ticklish and claims to not with the dare for him to try. Kind of looks like in truth, she maybe just wanted him to touch her, and she chickens out.

Segment 3: Nagataro teases him a bit over his hair, which has gotten a bit too long lately. Threats of sheering it are just a joke, and she wants to cut it seriously and empathetically. Her friends probably went way further this time than they have before, and actually threatened to clip his hair, it is bad, but senpai managed to kind of stick up for himself because he actually wants to have Nagataro cut his hair, she does so and it is not some trick.

Segment 4: It is very hot and they line up together to get some shaved ice, something she wants. He sees that Nagataro is really not handling it well and is probably on fast track to having heatstroke. He then against her instructions has her leave the line and takes her to the shade to have something cool to drink, because her health probably was in real risk and was more important than her showing off a shaved ice she liked.

Segment 5: Summer holidays is close, and they probably will have less interactions on a common base like they have. Senpai sees that he will have more freedom away from the so called teasing he has had a problem with, but might miss having out with her a bit. Nagataro manages to convince him to exchange contact information, says she favourites it, and covers up for it by saying that it is calling him a perv.

I really don't see these as bad as I thought I would coming into the show, and I would say there is some depth and growth here. There is a difference to Uzaki and Sakurai, which it did feel like an often gag in that show was Uzaki was a bit too insensitive to what Sakurai was doing, or as an introvert. The dynamic is different between Nagataro and her senpai, I think she might at some level be attracted to his sensitive more introverted side, but she between her teasing she also gives him good advice. Like if you want to be complemented you should probably complement others, which I think is probably great advice to help someone get out of their own head and communicate with others.

Jury is still out if Nagataro can do a great choco-mint rant.

The show has definitely gotten better since its first episode. I certainly would have dropped it (which is rare for me) if it had stayed like episode one.

I don't know, Dusky, Uzaki's choco-mint rant is going to be hard to beat!

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Don't Toy with Me, Miss Nagatoro (TV) (all seasons).