×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: 86


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mencor



Joined: 24 Feb 2021
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
The incompetence of the Alban military continues to astound me and take me out of the story a bit. Lena had to go digging through the archives to find a map? The commander of a military unit not having something as simple as the topography of the area the 86 is fighting in in a society this advanced is just baffling.

If the Legion was spoiler[ literally made by the Albans in order to enact an ethnic cleansing like I originally assumed it would make sense what with this being a literal phony war, but from what other posters have said they legitimately are/were from another invading country and are/were a force trying to invade Alba. ]

I realize this was done to show how little the Albans care about the 86, but did the military ever consider "what if the legion breaks the 86's lines and makes it to the capital?" Even Nazi penal battalions in real life who were essentially dead men walking were given maps and appropriate information so that they could accomplish their orders.


Yes, they won't get past the Gran mur, AKA the wall, so there is no problem.
Somewhat different but similar enough, the germans thought it a good idea to attack soviet without preparing winter gear, since they would finnish the invasion before winter. Miltary is not immune to incompetence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 11168
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Mami-kouga wrote:
On a less heavy note, I actually did enjoy the scene at the beginning a fair amount, especially when all the girls picked up their guns and the constant throwing of Daiya under the bus, it was cute and hilarious. Still have no opinion on Shin, but I also don't really like the super stoic and competent character archetypes normally unless their secretly dorks.

I think the thing with Shin is he comes off very stoic and passive, but you see stuff like his reaction when Kaie reveals why he doesn't file reports or when he throws his buddy under the bus while they're talking to Lena that shows there's more to him than that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 310
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:45 pm Reply with quote
Mencor wrote:
Electric Wooloo wrote:
The incompetence of the Alban military continues to astound me and take me out of the story a bit. Lena had to go digging through the archives to find a map? The commander of a military unit not having something as simple as the topography of the area the 86 is fighting in in a society this advanced is just baffling.

If the Legion was spoiler[ literally made by the Albans in order to enact an ethnic cleansing like I originally assumed it would make sense what with this being a literal phony war, but from what other posters have said they legitimately are/were from another invading country and are/were a force trying to invade Alba. ]

I realize this was done to show how little the Albans care about the 86, but did the military ever consider "what if the legion breaks the 86's lines and makes it to the capital?" Even Nazi penal battalions in real life who were essentially dead men walking were given maps and appropriate information so that they could accomplish their orders.


Yes, they won't get past the Gran mur, AKA the wall, so there is no problem.
Somewhat different but similar enough, the germans thought it a good idea to attack soviet without preparing winter gear, since they would finnish the invasion before winter. Miltary is not immune to incompetence.


If they won't get past the wall anyways why not lock the 86 out and let the legion kill them without them being able to fight back and not give them weapons for this whole charade? If the wall is a fool proof plan why have the autonomous (not actually autonomous) mechs? Military's aren't immune from incompetence certainly, but there's a basic level of preparedness one would expect is what I'm saying.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blahmoomoo



Joined: 27 Jan 2020
Posts: 460
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:31 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
Mencor wrote:
Electric Wooloo wrote:
The incompetence of the Alban military continues to astound me and take me out of the story a bit. Lena had to go digging through the archives to find a map? The commander of a military unit not having something as simple as the topography of the area the 86 is fighting in in a society this advanced is just baffling.

If the Legion was spoiler[ literally made by the Albans in order to enact an ethnic cleansing like I originally assumed it would make sense what with this being a literal phony war, but from what other posters have said they legitimately are/were from another invading country and are/were a force trying to invade Alba. ]

I realize this was done to show how little the Albans care about the 86, but did the military ever consider "what if the legion breaks the 86's lines and makes it to the capital?" Even Nazi penal battalions in real life who were essentially dead men walking were given maps and appropriate information so that they could accomplish their orders.


Yes, they won't get past the Gran mur, AKA the wall, so there is no problem.
Somewhat different but similar enough, the germans thought it a good idea to attack soviet without preparing winter gear, since they would finnish the invasion before winter. Miltary is not immune to incompetence.


If they won't get past the wall anyways why not lock the 86 out and let the legion kill them without them being able to fight back and not give them weapons for this whole charade? If the wall is a fool proof plan why have the autonomous (not actually autonomous) mechs? Military's aren't immune from incompetence certainly, but there's a basic level of preparedness one would expect is what I'm saying.


I would guess that the Alba weren't all on board with being racist at first (the 85 districts weren't made that long ago), and just leaving the 86 out to die would be incredibly obvious genocide, leading to those who aren't entirely on board to question, protest, etc.

In order to get the general public to turn racist toward the 86, war provides many opportunities for such propaganda. And the current situation lets a lot of 86 die as war casualties, hiding away the actual genocide.

Perhaps before the wall was built, there was an actual war effort that had competent leadership and resources. Perhaps with the 86 as the primary soldier force. But now that the wall exists, less effort is needed. And pulling back the resources leads to more casualties in battles that don't really need to be won for the Alba, but the 86 need to win to survive outside of the wall. It also seems to me that cutting back on what the Alba commanders have available to them is a way to reduce the chance that the commanders will start caring for the 86 soldiers: no video feeds, no profile pictures, just blips on a grid and vital stats. I suppose it isn't clear why, in the way I'm guessing this system works, Alba commanders are even needed. All I can guess is that it could be theater to show Alba are leading the war ("controlling" the "AI bots"), but there's probably information missing that will reveal a better reason.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18185
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:13 pm Reply with quote
^
There's actually a reason for the "no video feeds," but the adaptation has skipped over explaining it. (It's the one true deficiency in the adaptation so far.) It has to do with the nature of the Para-RAIDS that are used for communication purposes.

I'll put this in spoiler tags, because it's theoretically possible that it might get explained next episode. (Unless the adaptation gets very creative, a big upcoming twist will make less sense without this.)

spoiler[Those butterfly-type Legion seen in episode 2 generate EM jamming, which makes conventional means of contact difficult. Amongst conventional communications, only laser-targeted ones work, and as Shin pointed out in episode 2, those have dangers to their use as well. The Para-RAID gets around that by tapping into the vast field of human subconsciousness and transmitting messages that way.]

As for the rest of the recent discussion, remember that walls aren't infallible (see Attack on Titan), so someone in the remaining military brass has enough sense to realize that keeping the Legion from getting to the wall - so they don't figure out a way to get past it - is for the best. And hey, if you can get rid of despised minorities in the process, all the better, right?

As for the review of episode 3, I always find it interesting to see what other reviewers notice in scenes that I don't. For instance, in the two depictions of the Lena/Spearhead conversation, I concentrated more on how Lena wasn't correctly understanding the dynamic going on (and how the episode shows that), while Callum picked up more on the solo-vs-many differential.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Mami-kouga



Joined: 19 Jan 2021
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:36 pm Reply with quote
MFrontier wrote:
I think the thing with Shin is he comes off very stoic and passive, but you see stuff like his reaction when Kaie reveals why he doesn't file reports or when he throws his buddy under the bus while they're talking to Lena that shows there's more to him than that.


Oh there definitely a few hints in his interactions with others that give me hope in regards to him. But right now it's a bit too subtle so I'm still not sure how to feel towards him as a whole.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 310
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:46 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
^


spoiler[Those butterfly-type Legion seen in episode 2 generate EM jamming, which makes conventional means of contact difficult. Amongst conventional communications, only laser-targeted ones work, and as Shin pointed out in episode 2, those have dangers to their use as well. The Para-RAID gets around that by tapping into the vast field of human subconsciousness and transmitting messages that way. ]


spoiler[ I swear if this is another anime that misunderstands and misuses the term Collective unconscious... ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Abraham Omosun



Joined: 05 Mar 2020
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:47 am Reply with quote
This show really reminds me of Gundam IBO especially that scene with Shin in Ep 1 that almost exactly happened in ep 2 of IBO. I was honestly expecting "Raise your Flag" to start playing as the OP Laughing. The direction and animation are solid, the mechs are cool and the cast interactions are funny (AND damn did they rip Lena a new one at the end) though I will be lying if I didn't expect the other shoe to drop when it comes to its handling of racism. I don't know what direction the story/plot is going but I am cutiously optimistic that this will be my favorite anime this season (or at least a very good show)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
addie98



Joined: 29 Apr 2021
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:58 am Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
Key wrote:
^


spoiler[Those butterfly-type Legion seen in episode 2 generate EM jamming, which makes conventional means of contact difficult. Amongst conventional communications, only laser-targeted ones work, and as Shin pointed out in episode 2, those have dangers to their use as well. The Para-RAID gets around that by tapping into the vast field of human subconsciousness and transmitting messages that way. ]


spoiler[ I swear if this is another anime that misunderstands and misuses the term Collective unconscious... ]


Please don’t think too deeply on the particularities of the Sensory Resonance theory or any other weapons that appear in this work. They may be modified later on if need be. The collective unconscious idea in particular is one I intentionally misinterpreted for the sake of the story.

Asato - The Author


[Moderator's Note: ANN has sent a tweet to the real Asato Asato asking him to confirm whether or not this message was actually written by them. We have not received a reply. Until we receive a reply, the claim that this poster is Asato Asato should not be considered verified.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 11168
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 11:02 pm Reply with quote
The latest episode did a really good job of expanding on a much smaller gap of time in the novels to build up to when Lena pushes herself to connect with Shin to ask their names. Made it an even more powerful and emotional moment.

I wonder if more of this stuff might be planned for the future to stretch volume 1 out so they can finish it within this cour.

spoiler[Also did some nice foreshadowing for certain character moments in the future]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 310
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:21 am Reply with quote
Best episode so far in my opinion. Some good character development on both sides, foreshadowing/hinting at some things like spoiler[ Shin's brother almost certainly being the one person who saved Lena from the helicopter, ] and the fleshing out of the world and some of Spearhead in such a simple way (By introducing us to the Fox Commander, without ever actually showing him. Just stories of him and how people remember him.).

This series is at it's best when all of the flashy mechs are pushed to the side and we get into the nitty-gritty of the character's personal relations and perspectives.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zefram



Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:51 pm Reply with quote
Porudogumaz wrote:
Electric Wooloo wrote:
Yes, the parallel's aren't exactly subtle. I'm aware that the series is referencing Nazi Germany. But even in Germany there were dissidents and people who were coerced to join the party but weren't ardent supporters of their ideas. Everybody so far seems to truly believe in the inferiority of the 86, and the Republic doesn't exactly seem like an Autocracy crushing dissent. A simple "I have an Uncle in high places" shouldn't have gotten Lena off the hook for that speech if it was a Nazi like police state.


(And that's not even getting into the fact that the 86th district is apparently only 9 years old, so how, even with propaganda, the majority of people seems to not know/remember the existence of non-Alba humans in such a short time is anyone's guess...I swear, if it's brainwashing I-)


Well, if we compare this to Nazi Germany (from which this show pulls a lot of inspiration), Ghettos were created and used only for 5-6 years, and by end of that period, German population didn't question where their neighbors vanished to or how they were dealt with by authorities, how fair or unfair it was that Jews were deprived of their German citizenship, property and possessions and murdered, and weren't considered even human, normal German citizens just didn't think or care about it. You can literally count less than two dozen German people that tried to help Jews. There were several well known episodes after Allies invaded Germany, when they called in neighboring German towns populace (located less than 10 miles away from concentration camps) and ALL of these people claimed they didn't know what was happening in those camps, that there were Jews in that camp. Allied soldiers forced the whole towns residents to tour those camps, and those people till their dying days claimed they had no idea.
So, 9 years and whole country population taught to believe that 86 are sub-human and no longer part of the country? Pretty believable to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
7777ale7777



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:23 pm Reply with quote
I noticed that the opening was updated to remove the character that died the previous episode and to place them in a field with what I assume are more dead characters. And that's ominous because, well, there seems to be a lot of room in that field...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2402
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
showing Lena finally understanding how she's complicit in this multigenerational oppression.


This line from the review makes me thing I misunderstood something in the exposition dump. Was the current situation not a result of the invasion by the AI army that started 9 years ago? I swear Lena mentioned something about how it wasn't always this way.

Anyway, I guess I'm not as excited by the last episode as most people. It felt extra slow to me. Even with the wasted bath(?) time in episode 3, it felt like a lot happened compared to 4. The SoL part was clearly setup for the heavy dose of reality at the end. Ep 4 felt important, but it also felt like half an episode.

Speaking of that bathing section of ep 3, I didn't really get the point of the peeping in the bath type scene considering everyone was wearing uniforms. I don't think there needed to be a fan service scene at all but playing it as a super cliche peeping on the girls in the hot spring felt really off. I still get why they would be annoyed at getting spied on, but what in the hell were they even hiding to look at...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18185
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:48 pm Reply with quote
7777ale7777 wrote:
I noticed that the opening was updated to remove the character that died the previous episode and to place them in a field with what I assume are more dead characters. And that's ominous because, well, there seems to be a lot of room in that field...

Nice catch, as that detailed had slipped by me.

As for how ominous that is, the series has already dropped hints about who will and won't survive if you know what to look for. However, catching the hints at this point will probably either require having read the novel or watching through this again after the series ends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 3 of 13

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group