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EP. REVIEW: 86


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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 10960
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
(And fun fact: the scenes of Daiya getting mortally wounded and then finished off by Shin are anime-original. The novel just off-handedly mentions his death happening "off screen," so in this sense the anime is an improvement.)

Yeah, I think the anime definitely did right by Daiya here.
09jcg wrote:
[What you point out is one of my biggest issues with the speech. In a very well done adaptation, it was a poorly done moment. There were also private conversations with Lena's mother, Annette, and her uncle that could have been used to convey the same info, but were cut from the show.

I do think the way it was framed set up well how Lena perceives herself as being on a moral high horse and separate from the rest of the Albans as far as acknowledging the issue of the Eighty-Six and their treatment before Theo rips her apart for thinking she's as different from them as she would like to believe.
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09jcg



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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:26 pm Reply with quote
MFrontier wrote:

09jcg wrote:
[What you point out is one of my biggest issues with the speech. In a very well done adaptation, it was a poorly done moment. There were also private conversations with Lena's mother, Annette, and her uncle that could have been used to convey the same info, but were cut from the show.

I do think the way it was framed set up well how Lena perceives herself as being on a moral high horse and separate from the rest of the Albans as far as acknowledging the issue of the Eighty-Six and their treatment before Theo rips her apart for thinking she's as different from them as she would like to believe.
Part of my issue with it is that it sort of messes with her character arc. Lena, at that point in time, was on a moral high horse but was only brave enough to complain to those who were close to her. It was sort of the ultimate form of hypocrisy,

She didn't have it in her to be outspoken like that. In many ways she embodied the whole "First they came for the socialists" poem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Her interactions with the eighty-six over the course of the novel, to include getting chewed out by Theo change her to the point where she would give a speech like she gave in episode 2
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dm
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:31 pm Reply with quote
09jcg wrote:
What you point out is one of my biggest issues with the speech. In a very well done adaptation, it was a poorly done moment. There were also private conversations with Lena's mother, Annette, and her uncle that could have been used to convey the same info, but were cut from the show.


That's a reasonable point about a gratuitous info-dump, but there's one thing that such conversations could not convey: the fact that this seemingly open, democratic society has what amounts to a thought police that is pervasive enough that it is present even in the lecture halls of the military academy. If even lecturers and students in the military academy can't be trusted to toe the political line enough to not need minders, then thought control is pretty tight.

But I haven't read the novels, and am going only by the anime. Your later comment about how it doesn't fit into Lena's character arc as portrayed by the novels is very interesting.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:37 pm Reply with quote
09jcg wrote:
MFrontier wrote:

09jcg wrote:
[What you point out is one of my biggest issues with the speech. In a very well done adaptation, it was a poorly done moment. There were also private conversations with Lena's mother, Annette, and her uncle that could have been used to convey the same info, but were cut from the show.

I do think the way it was framed set up well how Lena perceives herself as being on a moral high horse and separate from the rest of the Albans as far as acknowledging the issue of the Eighty-Six and their treatment before Theo rips her apart for thinking she's as different from them as she would like to believe.
Part of my issue with it is that it sort of messes with her character arc. Lena, at that point in time, was on a moral high horse but was only brave enough to complain to those who were close to her. It was sort of the ultimate form of hypocrisy,

She didn't have it in her to be outspoken like that. In many ways she embodied the whole "First they came for the socialists" poem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Her interactions with the eighty-six over the course of the novel, to include getting chewed out by Theo change her to the point where she would give a speech like she gave in episode 2

I think in the context of the anime it works because they make it clear she's comfortable doing that because she knows, because of her uncle, she won't face serious consequences so she's basically ineffectually preaching to the choir of Albans without real risk to herself and without being able to really change anything.

But it doesn't really kick in just how privileged she is and how much her attempts come off like she's trying to make herself feel better with her perceived moral high ground until Theo's speech.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:33 pm Reply with quote
I've noticed that Callum's byline has gone from "Callum May" (1-3) to Callum May (4) to...just the date (5-6). Is Callum an 86 being disappeared by the state? Shocked
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saber721



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 12:09 pm Reply with quote
Welp, just watched episode 7. Looks like the feeling I had about them finishing LN 1 in episode 9 might end up being accurate, with the last two episodes of this cour covering the beginning of LN 2.

LN major spoilers:
spoiler[I feel they'll probably end this cour Covering chapters 2 and 3 of LN 2. Shin and the others being rescued by the Federal Republic of Giad and then choosing to return the battlefield, skipping chapter 1 and starting off the next cour with it.]
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Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 12:35 pm Reply with quote
I pretty much saw this specific twist about spearhead coming from a few episodes ago, though the fact that the 86 were basically in concentration camps was no secret from the start. Though it does make spoiler[Kujo's chalkboard drawing from episode one curious. Some sort of ironic humor with the "days left until service ends" or just a countdown to when he knows he'll be dead used as a red herring for the audience?]

As an anime only viewer spoiler[I'm very curious about Anju's back from this episode. She has all of the features one would associate with an Alba so I wonder if what's on her back is a brand denoting her as a traitor or "mixed race" or some such]
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Electric Wooloo



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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 1:00 pm Reply with quote
The speech at the end there was all good and such, but I'd think there would be more than a few 86 who disagree with those "fight to the end" principles. Ones who would try to take some Alba down with them when they found out. "Nobody is stupid enough to hang themselves even if they know they're gonna die tomorrow" except people have and do. Especially people on death row. It gives them some agency in their death as one last way to "stick it" to those who are killing them. I guess Spearhead decided that they want to live as long as possible though.

No real point to this comment, just musing into the void on these things.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 1:05 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
As an anime only viewer spoiler[I'm very curious about Anju's back from this episode. She has all of the features one would associate with an Alba so I wonder if what's on her back is a brand denoting her as a traitor or "mixed race" or some such]

Yeah, should be obvious that spoiler[Anju was the one being referred to as having "white pig" blood, and she's here because of being mixed race.] (If I was an anime-only viewer, I probably would have suspected something like that from the first time she appeared.)

As to what was on Anju's back in the shower scene, they play coy with it in the anime version, but the novel version spelled it out completely: spoiler[Whore's Daughter - and yes, it's carved into her back.] I was concerned that the anime version might skip that detail, but I'm glad that they didn't, and the need to get that in is why I don't consider that to be a gratuitous fan service scene.

Anyway, in general, that conversation at the end should ease many of the concerns about motivations, apparent plot holes, and purely demonizing the Alba that some have voice in this thread. Frankly, I found the way that reveal was handled to be a little emotional, and I laud the production team for that.

Oh, and fun fact: the name of the chapter that this episode is adapting at the end translates from Latin as "Let Justice Be Done, Though The Heavens Fall." A very ironic choice, I think.
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Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 308
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:

Yeah, should be obvious that spoiler[Anju was the one being referred to as having "white pig" blood, and she's here because of being mixed race.] (If I was an anime-only viewer, I probably would have suspected something like that from the first time she appeared.).


I mean I did suspect that from the beginning, what I was wondering here was just specifics. We already knew that there were some Alba who fought with the 86 like the Fox Commander so I was wondering if she was like him or something else.
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Gingi7890



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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 10:06 pm Reply with quote
I was glad they got the shower scene in. One interesting thing though, and I'm not sure if it's a mistranslation, is when spoiler[Anju asks Kurena "aren't you going to tell her." In the novels, she says "aren't you going to tell him," with the implication that she has feelings for Shin.]

I enjoyed the episode - it hit more than a few beats that I was excited to see how they animated spoiler[(the shower and the fireworks). The juxtaposition with the new Legion and the fireworks scene was well done, imho.]

I would like to see the series end spoiler[about where one of the other commenters said - except before they decide to go back to the battlefield. And I hope we get to see Cyclops - that is one of my favorite characters. Smile ]
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MFrontier



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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Gingi7890 wrote:
I would like to see the series end spoiler[about where one of the other commenters said - except before they decide to go back to the battlefield. And I hope we get to see Cyclops - that is one of my favorite characters. Smile ]

spoiler[I would not be surprised if the last we see of Lena in this cour is her commanding Shiden's squad in "Bloddy Reina" mode.]
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 8:10 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Not that that does anything to calm the audience though, and I feel Lena will have a similar reaction. I'm still waiting for her to turn up on the battlefield with a big gun, ready to take on their fiercest enemy.
This would be pretty silly, and kind of a slap in the face to the earlier presentation of the intractability of the relationship between her and the 86ers. She's far better positioned to help them from where she is, using her family connections, than just being another body on the field.


Last edited by Yttrbio on Sun May 23, 2021 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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saber721



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Gingi7890 wrote:
I was glad they got the shower scene in. One interesting thing though, and I'm not sure if it's a mistranslation, is when spoiler[Anju asks Kurena "aren't you going to tell her." In the novels, she says "aren't you going to tell him," with the implication that she has feelings for Shin.]


yeah definitely a mistranslation there.

Gingi7890 wrote:
I would like to see the series end spoiler[about where one of the other commenters said - except before they decide to go back to the battlefield. And I hope we get to see Cyclops - that is one of my favorite characters. Smile ]


spoiler[I think Cyclops should get it 'introduced' in the last episode of this cour, (over para-raid)]
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saber721



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 8:40 pm Reply with quote
Now for this weeks edition of 'details I loved about this episode'

spoiler[-This one was pointed out by someone on the Cruchyroll forum for this episode. The scene when Kuerena is talking to Lena about how hearing the Legion's voices doesn't really bother the 86: "Not only does the food evoke what Kurena is describing, but at the same time its depicting the antithesis of 86 life while Kurena is describing it." (credit to HuecalpixquiJeanIII on Crunchyroll)

-The fireworks scene where Shin asks Lena not to forget about them: The fireworks in this scene could be representing the 86 themselves; with short, brief and inevitably doomed lives that nonetheless shine brightly until their final moments.

-Later, the fireworks scene from Spearheads perspective, when Kurena is monologing: When Shin is shown first is shown in shadows before the clouds move and he is shown in the moonlight, this is likely when he asks Lena to not forget about them. I think this scene is symbolic of Shin, who never had any hope or wish for the future (as represented by his figure in shadows), entrusting this one small wish to Lena, this one small hope that someone will remember them, even once they're all gone. (his figure shown in the moonlight.)

-The scene where Spearhead is attacked by the new artillery type: Seeing Shins personal mark being so worn down can be thought of as the Spearhead squadron itself being more worn down. Soon to be so worn down that there will be nothing left.

-When Shin senses that his Brother has noticed him: That small smile he makes every time he thinks about his brother pops up again, still just as creepy.

-I'm probably overthinking this one but in the end credits, I wonder if the fact Lena's arm is colored in red is nod to her future moniker of The Bloodstained Queen, Bloody Reina.]
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