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EP. REVIEW: Tokyo Revengers


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Matros



Joined: 22 Feb 2021
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:32 pm Reply with quote
I feel like the latest review was very generous. The quality of episode 19 excluding a handful of cuts was very poor. The storyboard was incomprehensible due to it breaking the 180 degree rule the camera made no sense at times. Lots of action for its own good and as a result the production couldn't keep up. The animation was janky and the art was melting. I had a hard time looking past these issues when it hindered my enjoyment,
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chrisb
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Joined: 07 May 2006
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Location: USA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:53 am Reply with quote
I thought Kazutora would have a better reason for his actions, but it turns out he is just an immature sociopath. Mikey (a likable sociopath) spoiler[knocking his ass out] was probably the most satisfying thing I’ve watched in a while.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:59 am Reply with quote
MakiharaMeiko wrote:
I think (but I don't know) that Kazutora wants Mikey to hate him and kill him. And the only way to do that without making Mikey a bad guy is making himself the enemy. As Kazutora himself said: if you kill someone you are a bad person, unless you kill your enemy, then you are a hero.

That would make somewhat more sense, except for two reasons: one, that Kazutora was shown muttering "it's Mikey's fault" right after he killed his brother, before he even knew how Mikey would react - I mean what he could reasonably expect was Mikey hating or at least resenting him, not Mikey reacting the way he did; and two, the fact that he's blaming Mikey at all. Like... if you're right this is what flashed through his mind the moment he realized he man was dead: "I'm a bad guy for killing Mikey's brother, but Mikey may not hate me for it. So it's best if I convince myself that Mikey is to blame so I'll end up hating him, just in case - that way even if he forgives me I'll eventually antagonize him enough to want to kill me, thereby achieving justice and becoming the hero he deserves to be"

...

I mean... Anime smile + sweatdrop

Even twisted minds tend to have their own twisted logic, but this just makes no sense whatsoever - maybe if he'd had years of obsessive thoughts about it to develop a weird strategy to antagonize Mikey who seemed forgiving instead of angry; but no, it was right from the start.
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MakiharaMeiko



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:18 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:

Even twisted minds tend to have their own twisted logic, but this just makes no sense whatsoever - maybe if he'd had years of obsessive thoughts about it to develop a weird strategy to antagonize Mikey who seemed forgiving instead of angry; but no, it was right from the start.


Well, Kazutora knows how Mikey is and Kazutora is pretty impulsive/crazy, I don't see it so twisted being him. (I at least like this theory more than the "I hate him because potato" like he is trying to sell us xD) But yeah, either way is a weird reaction.

I want to say too that Mikey told Kazutora that "everything of you is now mine" (or something like that) so Kazutora's fault is also Mikey's fault, in a way (a twisted one too hahaha)

Let's see how is turn to be x'D
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:32 am Reply with quote
Kazutora's motivations do seem pretty strange. I had kind've inferred that he just couldn't deal with the reality of what he'd done; that, instead've getting Mikey the gift he thought he wanted most, he gave Mikey the 'gift' of one of his best friends murdering his older brother, effectively destroying two of the people closest to Mikey, and doing one of the few things that could actually hurt Mikey. I don't know quite how he goes from a kind of psychological break over that contradiction to talking about Mikey being the enemy, but Makihara's "He wants to die, he wants Mikey specifically to kill him, and he doesn't want Mikey to look like a villain when he does" seems like a reasonable bet. EDIT: I don't think the show has really done the character work to build that idea up, though, and I am not sure if it will be able to do so going forward, if this is in fact how his headspace works.

Last edited by NeverConvex on Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:41 am Reply with quote
Well, whatever happens - unless there's some huge game changer revelation, then at this point I think we can safely say that this is a textbook case of the writer needlessly overcomplicating something that could have been done in a simpler but more effective way. Anime smile + sweatdrop I mean I, too, wholly expect an "oh no, he actually didn't really hate Mikey all along, also he was just being used by Kisaki!" revelation because duh, drama, but even so it could have been done in a more straightforward way.

All the more so because, well, maybe this is just me not being invested in the characters enough, but who is Kazutora anyway? Ultimately it seems to me he exists so he can be sacrificed for the sake of plot/character development for Mikey, but also spending this much time on a character only to build up Kisaki as a final boss feels, I don't know, superfluous to me.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The worst culprit is probably the section after Baji brains Kisaki, where he, Takemichi, and Chifuyu loudly argue about the conspiracy the evil nerd has been setting up behind the scenes. In a fight that should feel chaotic and tense, it's a staggeringly long time to have characters standing around, inexplicably isolated from any other fighters, that begs the question of where everyone else is that nobody notices or reacts to this minutes-long discussion

Of all the shonen tropes the review noted, this is the shoneniest trope of all, where the heroes openly strategize or fight amongst themselves while the villain they're presently fighting sits back and files their nails. I think I remember Bleach actually sort of calling this out once. Very Happy It's stupid, but it's ubiquitous, so if one can't cope with it, best skip shonen stories altogether.
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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:29 pm Reply with quote
It occurred to me during the latest epsiode's recap that the 'Kazutora really wants Mikey to kill him' speculation feels a lot less meaningful when you see Kazutora viciously beat Mikey over the head with a steel pipe. I mean -- sure, Mikey seems to exist based on cartoon physics, so he not only lives but immediately one-shots Kazutora with a flying flunky kick, but Kazutora couldn't have known Mikey's head was a transplant from Wiley E. Coyote, right?
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:35 pm Reply with quote
A part of me feels like Takemichi's brain farts or inability to remember key details until it's too late is partially because of how much he gets beat up and has to rely on adrenaline to keep going to the point where he barely thinks...of course, Takemichi is also kind of dumb so I'm not sure how fair a defense that is. I feel like Subaru Natsuki would've been able to better strategize by this point.

If Baji is actually dead (and it's partially Takemichi's fault he got stabbed) I hope Takemichi pulls something to change the timeline at least a little, otherwise he really will have been completely useless. It's probably too late to topple Kisaki's standing in Toman after he just orchestrated a hero move by "saving" Mikey, but maybe he can stop Mikey from killing Kazutora.
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:57 pm Reply with quote
I can't tell if the author is trying to be realistic or not cos the characters keep getting beaten up but we might have a big fight that lasted 3 episodes and some of these guys are still feeling as fine as the dude from the Matrix despite getting his ass kicked by Keanu Reeves.
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nightoffire



Joined: 17 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:00 pm Reply with quote
A better translation than "It's Baji's fault" would be "Baji must go", it's not the same words he used for "It's Mikey's fault", the translators were just wanted to keep the meme going, I guess. Also, that line wasn't in the manga to begin with. He was completely silent before Chifuyu yeeted him.

SHD wrote:

All the more so because, well, maybe this is just me not being invested in the characters enough, but who is Kazutora anyway? Ultimately it seems to me he exists so he can be sacrificed for the sake of plot/character development for Mikey, but also spending this much time on a character only to build up Kisaki as a final boss feels, I don't know, superfluous to me.


There are two extra side stories about younger Kazutora that probably aren't going to be animated, unfortunately. But I don't know if I'm allowed to "spoil" those here..

I really don't think it's that hard to understand what his mindset is and I want to talk about it but the pacing is so freaking slow in the anime that I'm probably going to have to wait 2 more weeks to say what I want to say about him, Takemichi and this arc in general.

Praying that the second season is done better, and hopefully has a different studio too.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:57 am Reply with quote
nightoffire wrote:
A better translation than "It's Baji's fault" would be "Baji must go",

He says "Baji ga ikenai", "ikenai" in this case is the the negative of "ikeru" and has a meaning along the lines of "wrong". "It's Baji's fault" is the correct English translation. (But for that matter even in the conjugation of "iku"/"to go", "ikenai" doesn't mean "must go" - it means "can't go".)

nightoffire wrote:
I really don't think it's that hard to understand what his mindset is

I don't think it's hard to understand either, at least if it is what I think it is, I just think that the way it's written is really contrived and makes no sense.
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MakiharaMeiko



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:38 pm Reply with quote
SHD wrote:

He says "Baji ga ikenai", "ikenai" in this case is the the negative of "ikeru" and has a meaning along the lines of "wrong". "It's Baji's fault" is the correct English translation. (But for that matter even in the conjugation of "iku"/"to go", "ikenai" doesn't mean "must go" - it means "can't go".)


I think this "ikenai" means "hopeless" and not "being wrong". Like, he's saying Baji was betraying Valhalla after all (he tries to kill Kisaki, so...). Like a "he never was with us, he has no salvation, it's a hopeless case because he's still with Mikey".

Either way I think he should remain silent or say "die, Baji" as he said in the manga. This phrase is only making everyone going crazy (even more) with his character xD
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:21 pm Reply with quote
MakiharaMeiko wrote:
I think this "ikenai" means "hopeless" and not "being wrong". Like, he's saying Baji was betraying Valhalla after all (he tries to kill Kisaki, so...). Like a "he never was with us, he has no salvation, it's a hopeless case because he's still with Mikey".

I wrote "along the lines of wrong" because it can express a range of "wrong" that could include "hopeless", for sure. Still, the closest English translation of the phrase is "it's Baji's fault", and that's the one that makes the most sense to me, because going by the context he's blaming Baji. The others are going "WHAT THE HELL, DUDE" and he's being defensive, like "It's not me, it's him, he brought this on himself". Of course one could embellish the translation to get the meaning across better (I'm no native speaker of English, so), but I think in this case it's better to stay simple because that conveys the meaning the best... also, I think there's a danger in digging too deep and starting to make assumptions as to, as we say in my neck of the woods, "what the poet meant". Anime smile + sweatdrop

MakiharaMeiko wrote:
Either way I think he should remain silent or say "die, Baji" as he said in the manga. This phrase is only making everyone going crazy (even more) with his character xD

If this is not in the manga then perhaps the anime writer also felt that his thought process is kind of dodgy, so they added this line to try to make it clearer... who knows? In any case, I've already resigned myself to a reveal about how Kazutora is Not Really Bad After All, so I just hope they'll get to it quickly...
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MakiharaMeiko



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:14 pm Reply with quote
I desagree with you, but it's ok!

I just hope the rhythm goes back to normal, because the latest episodes are going very slowly and it's irritating :_) (for me at least)
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