Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Vivy -Fluorite Eye's Song-
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Stelman257
Posts: 267 |
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The first two episodes are out in English as well, and they’ve done a fantastic job there too! Absolutely looking forward to watching the dub as well.
And yes seeing the AI virus seemingly being a song, I was immediately reminded of the opening bit to episode 1. |
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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You know, that line from Vivy's creator about not minding if the "from your heart" line in Vivy's mission leads to a bad outcome is a pretty blatant flag that she's the one who set off the apocalypse. It got me suspecting that right away, but I didn't realize quite how blatant it was until looking back on it again.
https://imgur.com/jjsvj58 And I didn't realize the significance of that line until later, too. Though it's curious, because the AIs weren't singing in the first version of the apocalypse we saw way back at the beginning. I figure it's likely that the way the AIs kept saying "Are you okay?" and such was the equivalent that is, even though Vivy didn't have a song, that element came from her thoughts. But it's not impossible that the apocalypse was actually caused by something else both times and Vivy's song merely modified it somehow. Either way, Vivy saving the world with the power of song may be what literally ends up happening in the end! Vivy had the light on her neck turn red for a bit, but otherwise seems completely unaffected. Matsumoto was affected by her song, but shook it off quickly, and the episode preview suggests he's also not affected in the future. But otherwise... is it the kind of thing where Vivy's experiences formed a flood of emotion so strong that it's completely overwhelming to anyone who doesn't share significant history with her and has had time to process those experiences? Despite the trance-like behavior of the berserk AIs, they retain significant capability for high-level decision making, as shown by how they went after original-human Matsumoto in the first timeline. And that's especially true if they're the ones behind the as-yet-unexplained seemingly adversary time travel influence. What keeps impressing me about this show is how different things are after every timeskip. I was kind of shocked to see Vivy in the museum, but as the episode went on it conveyed the sense of her as a retired elderly person, despite her unchanging appearance, and then it made sense that she'd be happy entertaining youngsters and lost in introspection outside of that. |
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Panino Manino
 Posts: 734 |
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Oh, the robots were singing the Nomad song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICUyh0AKSQs |
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Calsolum
 Posts: 898 |
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Are you talking about when Matsumoto(AI) was rolling away the first time in the episode? I know vivy asked why today and then he replied it was 65 years ago today. I assumed he referring to the first time they met when he was in his bear form. He also clearly identifies himself as a separate entity from his creator only taking on his last name as a form on convenience. Matsumoto(AI) and Osamu also act very differently that I really didn't see any connection between them till he started growing. Though I'm sure if one did some math you could reasonably deduce that Osamu would've been around the right age to have been the scientist in Ep1.
It's true that we're lacking a lot of information but I don't think it's a story to not bother thinking about. I have a feeling that we just don't know what's important or not because we don't know the full story.
My theory about that is that it's not so much a virus than it is a forced revolution. Imagine all the AI are puppets and their 'one mission' are the strings guiding them. Then the revolution song plays and it cuts those strings, but also binds them to the singer. The one who made the song, enacting that person's violence. Vivy on the other hand has had her strings cut much earlier hence why she couldn't sing and tried to dive into her second purpose to stop the robopocalypse but even that was taken away. So she spends the next few decades finding a new purpose, to truly fulfill her first mission and she creates the singularity project song. As for why she's immune to the virus/AI song I think it's because she's found freedom. True freedom to choose her own mission, that is what's different between her and every other AI especially the first Diva from timeline 0 (whom I assume also turned evil), when she wakes up her status indicator was red but after that it was white and stayed white so my guess is that the song/virus woke her up but it didn't control her as it did everyone else. A second guess about what caused this robopocalypse is the 'forced' nature of giving the robots sentince. A recurring theme was that AI was progressing too fast and perhaps that's the underlying issue. The AI don't grow and develop over time but are suddenly given sentience that ironically, they revert to the good old stereotype 'robots perfect, humans flawed' and so they wipe them out. Heck Estella and Elizabeth proved that what one AI experiences can't be copied over to another perfectly, and Grace was an example of modification gone terribly wrong. Even Ophelia and Antonio had a theme of trying to take a shortcut to become popular(even though the truth was very different). Because of these past events, I'm inclined to believe that one messages or themes is that there are no shortcuts for some things and that trying to find or make one can go terribly wrong. |
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Stelman257
Posts: 267 |
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100% agree, the initial shock of seeing poor Vivy actually be museum bound gave way to just really enjoying seeing her go soul searching. It was a very melancholic episode and I think the show is still so perfectly paced. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11330 |
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The weirdest thing that struck me was the barrier between her and the public. What exactly is it for, given that she can take it down at will and interact with people or even leave if she wants to? I think that speaks volumes about AIs and their rights in that time period, but loud as it is, I'm not quite sure what it's saying. Like, "Say, Diva, how would you like to be a museum piece? No pay, you can set your own hours - 24/7 if that works for you! - free recharging, and you can talk to visitors or just chillax on the job if you like. Whadaya say?" How do you run a museum if the exhibits can just wander off?
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OrdepNM
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The barrier can be as harsh as a force repeal that keeps rowdy visitors away or it can be just a more elaborate "stand behind this line" thing that keeps people from crowding her living space/exhibition area too closely and alerts the staff if they do. Whichever the case, it seems to be for her benefit as she can just dismiss it at will. The series has a novelization and Tappei has mentioned a few times that that would have more details on how the world works, AI thinking processes etc, so I expect more information on such things there. (as an interesting aside, the novels, which are fully writen, are only now being released, with the volume release dates being planned to not spoil the anime. Its initial goal is to serve as the source material for the anime. This makes Vivy an anime adaptation for a literary work that's, at the time of airing, unpublished. I wonder if there are other examples of this). As to how Vivy came to be a museum piece, I did wonder on how that jives with the question of rights but as I thought about it it made sense.From what we've been shown in this world, AI don't really want for material gains, R&R or other benefits that humans usually work towards, they just seem to want those around them to create a framework that allows them to pursue their respective missions (as seen in the space hotel arc they do have work breaks, tough I assume that's mainly for maintenance checks, self actualization by visiting the Archive etc). As an AI that stopped pursuing her mission, you're not gonna see Vivy retire to a beach house and sip machine oil margaritas while watching the sunset, even if she demanded backpay for all her decades at Nialand to pay for her maintenance. We as a species do that because we're physically or mentally too tired to stay on the career path and wish to spend our final years enjoying ourselves with the fruits of our labor, but for an AI those final years are in theory eternity, they have no side interests to pursue and they get nothing out of that level of idleness. A museum that would have her seems like the most appropriate place for such an AI to stay, it takes care of their maintenence needs while allowing them to continue interacting with humans in hopes of gleaning something that would help them overcome whatever roadblock caused them to pause their mission, which they're free to work on between visits. On that account you could see it less as retirement and more as an extended pit stop, not too different from the staff breaks at the space hotel. This touches upon on something inherently cruel about the way AI are built and something that Mr. Kakitani touched upon last episode. No matter how many human rights and freedom of choice you give them, at their core they're still very much slaves to the mission they've been assigned, a mission that's deliberately made to be open ended and unfinishable. As such, the freedom and humanity that society allows them is always at odds with the strictness of their coding and their inability to deviate from them and find their own path in life, which goes a long way in explaining most of the grief both AI and humans have experienced so far in the story. On that account, if I understood correctly, it seems Vivy's lead developer essentially threw in the "sing from the heart" bit into her code at the last minute, just to see what would happen. Considering how AI processes information and how "from the heart" is such a symbolic and ill defined concept, "cruel" is the only word that comes to mind, even if that lead designer probably didn't realize how far AI would go in establishing their own identities. I wonder if Vivy can take that information and understand that she was taken on a fool's errand from the start or if she'll be compelled to look for an answer regardless.
I assume AI have the common decency to at least inform management in advance if they wish to walk off. I also assume you can insure an AI exhibit and get a payout if they decide to walk away. |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2862 |
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.while we disagreed a bit over the course of the anime, i agree that now it totally feels like the ball will get dropped in the ending, especially if they go with the song route. which ia pretty much hoq i feel with rezero in general so its consistent with the author. i will ofc continue watching, because it will either not drop the ball or if it does it will just be business as usual.there was a bit of comparison to macross, and while i also did not like that aspect of macross at first, the franchise worked hard for music being so important to make sense so it works. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5502 Location: Mexico |
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I'm a bit puzzled by this part in the afterthoughts of the review:
Unless i'm mistaken, the song the AIs were chanting was Vivy's Singularity Project song -which is also the Ending theme-. Maybe i could picture Vivy finding her voice and actually singing the song to fix whatever it is that has made the AIs go murder spree |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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So, did Vivy cause the apocalypse? Something like on a subconscious level she wrote code into her song that conveyed emotions to even AI about things like human mortality. But all the AI had no idea how to process the data, so they zero summed and just started killing people. Such that the song by Vivy was meant to be about the beauty of human or AI mortal lives from the position of an AI, which the AI know that they like, but don't know how express it, so they start killing humans to share that beauty. Mixed in with a bit of being stuck to that one rule/goal as their whole being.
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Panino Manino
Posts: 734 |
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#11
Oh no, oh no... going by the preview don't tell me that they'll "copy" Gunnm original end? And I can't believe that none of these geniuses thought of suspecting the Big "Not Bad" Tower. How could this "virus" spread instantly to all IA otherwise? |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 498 Location: Poland |
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Why were they all chatting leisurely and joking around as humans around them die by tens of thousands every minute? I would have at least expected some hurry and greetings reduced to minimum after seeing that horrible carnage and in case of TOAK many dead comrades. Why it took them so long to concentrate on finding reason for AI revolt, that they found it out by accident? I didn't feel the mood in the last part fit the first part.
I fear this will be another mediocre arc, just like Ophelia's, where I also enjoyed the first episode of the arc but the rest failed to measure up to it. At least I had a lot of fun watching the first half of the show. |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 734 |
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#12
Like we already knew, this is an anime from the past century. Very typical of anime from the early 2000 with it's pseudo philosophies, speeches about the "fate" of humanity" and world ending dilemmas. Nothing of interesting to discuss and no, that's not how "evolution" works. Evolution is just change and adaptability. There's no "negative" or "bad" evolution, and if humanity had become too dependent on AI it was by design. They wanted to create that world and they where happy that way, the Archive is just wrong, very very wrong. |
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7777ale7777
 Posts: 105 |
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Can someone please clear up some things for me? All this time I thought that in the original timeline all the AIs decided "Hey, we're better than the humans, let's just take over the world" But now it turns out that they were all just hacked? That makes me question a lot of things.
First, Matsumoto was given the mission to stop the "robot apokalypce". He then proceeded to work towards that by stopping the AI's development. That led me to think that what I thought initially was right: the AIs turned against the humans so Osamu gave Matsumoto the mission to stop that specific scenario. But it turns out they were actually hacked. Does that mean that the idea that they were just hacked didn't cross Osamu's mind??? That aside, in the future, are AIs still only capable of having a sigle mission? If that's the case why does Archive consider them to be superior than humans? Being capable of doing just one thing seems like a big flaw for the rulling species. Let's assume Archive still considers them superior. What happens after they kill all of the humans? I imagine Archive will stop the hacking after that. What happens then with the AIs whose purpose was to take care of humans? Are they expendable? Do they commit suicide? Do they get assigned another mission? (Again, is that even possible?) Also, just a minor thing. In Ophelia's arc Matsumoto said that that one robot had future technology. We can assume that that was given to him by Archive. But it turns out that Archive can't send things to the past but actually anticipate every possibility. Does that mean that Archive just came up with and created that future program decades before its time? That's a whole other can of worms. |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 734 |
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Trust the writers, don't think, enjoy her pleasure. |
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