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GAME: No More Heroes 1 & 2




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Themaster20000



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 791
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:47 am Reply with quote
I found one to be extremely lacking in the gameplay department. The really small variety of enemies made combat stale really fast. Then the forced grinding for cash in-between levels. It all just felted like filler for the boss fights, which are the highlights of the game. 2 on the other hand fixed most of these issues. Getting rid of the pointless overworks, having fun NES style minigames as the side jobs. Biggest improvement being it had way better enemy variety. My only big issue was the story hyped up by Suda. With him talking about it being this commentary on revenge,but it ends up being underdeveloped.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3072
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:18 pm Reply with quote
While I definitely agree about the writing and soundtrack, when I think back about the games (particularly 1) I just remember how bored I was most of the time. The gameplay is painfully generic outside of the boss, and I'm not talking about the boring mini game, fighting regular mook is incredibly boring offering neither the interesting combat system of a DMC nor the spectacle of a god of war game or killer 7. Level just felt like long section that exist only to pad the game. It's obvious the game is overflowing with love for video game in general, so its just all the more baffling that almost no effort was poured into making the game part of the video game entertaining, maybe it was a results of the integration of motion control and the wii casual focus?
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RockSplash



Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Posts: 114
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:28 pm Reply with quote
I wanted to comment on the fact the game is considered to be boring outside of boss fights. Its important to note that Suda51 will put themes over gameplay. In the story, Travis is a loser otaku with no aspirations or goals. Until the assassin jobs start. The minigames are supposed to be meaningless as he does not get any pleasure out of not killing. Even the open world is supposed to feel flat and boring. I understand that this does not excuse good gameplay, but I just wanted to note that.
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Stelman257



Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 117
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:24 pm Reply with quote
I played both these games again on Switch recently so they're fresh in my mind once again. Yeah I gotta say while I get the first game is more "boring" I guess, thematically it feels so so SO much more interesting and consistent. It's quirky in all the right ways, and you can tell there are some brilliant whacky Suda51 decisions there. When the first game cutscene steals a boss fight from you, after having made you literally work for money to get there, and after having made you almost literally walk down an empty big ass corridor to do so, when Travis gets mad and starts talking smack to the guy who stole the fight from him, it's absolutely in tandem with the players emotions. It's a strange level of catharsis and comedy the second game completely lacks with it's instant wish fulfillment. Also every boss fight in game 1 is so polished, so well developed, and the ending for the game is absolutely brilliant. I love the writing in the first game, and honestly while it's flawed, I'd recommend it to anyone anyway because there are so few experiences like it.

I guess the second game is more fun to play as a "game game", but half decent action is really not why I loved the series or any of Suda's games for that matter. The second game is such an unfocused mess compared to the first, and not only do I feel like it's aged so much more poorly than the first has, almost all of it's jokes are really dumb T&A or 4th wall breaking haha gamer jokes. Almost none of the boss fights have any personality in the second game either, compared to how wonderfully colourful they were in game 1. You can seriously tell they made this one, under a different director of course (Suda is only credited for some writing) to try and appeal to the mainstream as much as possible. And it's obvious there were development issues as well, with how rushed and strange the pacing is at times, how completely unused some areas are (the weapons shop sells you 2 things in the entire game and that's it???), and how undercooked the story ends up being. The game has a really lame final boss and ending and I remember being pretty bummed back in the day that that's how the series chose to go out. Especially after how good the final boss(es) and ending to the first game was.
It has some good spots, playable Shinobu and Henry (for the briefest of moments) is really cool, and the dual wielding combat style is probably the closest Suda games have come to good action combat in line with DMC games and such, but I love the first game so much more than it. Flaws and all.

I'm glad NMH3 exists at all, and seems to be a return to form for the series. Suda's back in the directors chair, one of the main villains is named after the EA CEO that trashed his games developments for so many years, I can tell it's gonna be a wild ride.
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yeehaw



Joined: 09 Sep 2018
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:32 pm Reply with quote
RockSplash wrote:
I wanted to comment on the fact the game is considered to be boring outside of boss fights. Its important to note that Suda51 will put themes over gameplay. In the story, Travis is a loser otaku with no aspirations or goals. Until the assassin jobs start. The minigames are supposed to be meaningless as he does not get any pleasure out of not killing. Even the open world is supposed to feel flat and boring. I understand that this does not excuse good gameplay, but I just wanted to note that.


This! I've also seen people say that the side missions are boring because they're just work for Travis. He's just doing the daily grind like Suda did. And then he gets to do the assassin thing and it's great! He loves it! Just like Suda when he finally got into his dream work of game development.
But even a dream job is a job that grinds down your enthusiasm, no matter how much you love it.
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