Forum - View topicREVIEW: Yasuke
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
SHD
Posts: 1752 |
|
|||||
No, not established. Just because there are many works where Oda Nobunaga is associated with demonic/alien/mech/fantasy elements doesn't mean this is the default take on the character! There are far more works where these elements don't appear than where they do. The only default aspects of Nobunaga are guns, eccentricity and the mustache. (Perhaps fire too, re: Honganji and/or Honnouji, depending on the story.) Demonic connotations may appear simply because of him referencing to himself as a demon king, but even that is not literal most of the time, but taken figuratively as him being evil, conflicted, misunderstood, etc. More importantly though, in stories where the character does have anachronistic/fantastic attributes it's done in a way that makes sense in the world of the story. To sound like a broken record, I don't think most people complaining here, myself included, would have felt the same way about the mechs in the show if they were done better. Personally for me it's not the mechs per se, it's everything from the mechs to the fantastic/weird elements. The problem is not that they're there, it's that there's no rhyme and reason behind them being in the story the way they are, there's no real wordbuilding to speak of, just fantastic elements thrown together without no thought as to why they're in the story, how they go together, how they relate to one another, etc. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
loempiavreter
Posts: 26 |
|
|||||
Again have you lot watched Kyomu Senshi Miroku? Black Lion? Yotoden? The [expletive] plot twist of Black Lion is that the hunter samurai turned out to be a terminator, in an otherwise fairly medieval period flick. Yotoden and Miroku had alien assassins just there. I don't know, i just didn't have a problem with the rhyme or reason for why there was a fantastical element towards it, Again, sorry for sounding like a broken record, Oda Nobunaga stories just have always been accociated with this. Being grown up with Miroku, Yotoden, Black Lion and the great Karasu Tengu Kabuto by GOD buichi Terasawa. Let's not forget national hero Futaro Yamada have touched the subject many times in his novels. Also forgot about Tatei no Ken aka Sword of Alexander, also brings in the alien assassins.
The best Dracula Hammer horrors are the ones that dont have to establish his mythos. But already assumed we know what a bloody vamp is. And i don't remember the old Toho Godzilla's being overall indulged with too much exposition. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Snowcat
Posts: 190 |
|
|||||
I'm lost... Where was the terminator and the alien assassin in Yasuke ? |
||||||
|
||||||
Panino Manino
 Posts: 739 |
|
|||||
Yes, I have ZERO problems with the fantasy side of this, the problem is that everything about this was bad, starting from the silly sound effect. 
Almost nothing makes sense, really, for example, the Damiyo. How is she the Damiyo? Wouldn't that be someone that is ruling over the land and people? But what do we see? An actual wall isolating the lands she controls with her mindless army. What a great villain, staying far away from the supposedly poor oppressed masses living happily in their idyllic lands... There was nothing of worth in this. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
loempiavreter
Posts: 26 |
|
|||||
I was talking about fantastical elements being used in regards to period pieces associated with Oda Nobunaga. [quote="Panino Manino"]
A Daimyo or Onna-Daimyo is just a landlord. Very fitting in theme with contemporary landlords hiding away and send mindless goons to ehm collect the rent. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
|
|||||
She wasn't collecting anything, one more reason to say that it makes no sense. Until the last episodes looked the war was all in the past, the lands were in peace and the danger was just her armed forces policing some possible resistance. By the way, anyone remembers that one episode ended with Yasuke pretender not wanting to join that group's attack, just to go alone behind the wall and the episode ended with him running into battle alone? And then the next episode started with him siting discussing the future attack with the group with the anime finally showing that they where right beside the mordor? Is this level of discontinuity allowed? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
loempiavreter
Posts: 26 |
|
|||||
It was a joke... landlords... get it... aggghhhhhhh impossible Also the game Iga Ninden Giaou for the PC-engine CD, mixes what Yasuke does as setting as well. You guys really just didn' t grew up in the late 80s/early 90s... No build up... suddenly first boss, an android. It just expect us to know this stuff about Oda Nobunaga. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yJFbBQV7_Q http://www.videogameden.com/cdrom.htm?iga |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
|
|||||
|
Count me out, I'm very accustomed from the beginning about these "strange things" is anime.
I repeat, the problem here is that this anime is just bad written, uninteresting and forgettable... just like many of those old anime. |
||||||
|
||||||
Horsefellow
 Posts: 262 |
|
|||||
IIRC some big influences for Yasuke were OVAs like Dangaioh and Bubblegum Crisis. And in that regard perhaps it does succeeded in emulating the late 80s/early 90s era of OVAs. But I'd also argue those days weren't very good to begin with and there's a reason that era is long gone. Bubblegum Crisis specifically was cancelled mid-airing but despite that somehow became an iconic series in the west for a lot of people in that era. Although I suppose it's not hard to see why. Even I remember seeing it in video stores back in the day, and as a kid if I had a choice to watch He-Man or Street Sharks reruns or this video at Blockbuster that had some hot cartoon babes on the cover, I'd probably go for the later. I can see why those shows imprinted on my generation who grew up on American kids cartoons. I mean, watching Agent Aika as a middle/high schooler sure was something. But I wouldn't really call any of those shows actually great. Personally, I don't ever really want to go back to that era. I'd rather watch pretty much any modern isekai over rewatching El Hazard or other 90s era isekai just because I think the medium has evolved and gotten a lot better in the coming decades and outcasses a lot of the older stuff. There's certainly a lot of great anime that hold up, but I don't think most of them are part of the ultra violent and crazy OVA market of the 80s and 90s.. But if Yasuke was a loveletter to that era then I can see why it is the way it is. Maybe people who are big into that era of anime would enjoy it more than I did. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||
|
Post removed. If you have issues with how the thread is moderated, the feedback thread is the appropriate place.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
loempiavreter
Posts: 26 |
|
|||||
First thing... Agent Aika is trash, what a bad example of that era. Second, it's the first time i hear someone saying Bubblegum Crisis being of poor quality... Just because something was not initially well received upon release, means it reception reflects the quality of said title. We need time to value products and processing it's judgement, this culture of immediate feedback needs to go. Some of the most loved work in history of entertainment didn't get their due, until for example we could watch back in hindsight from the times we are living now. That being said I do appreciate Bubblegum Crisis because im a huge Cyberpunk setting buff. But the character design are bit of that annoying 'big eyes, small mouth' variant (and i definitely didn't watch it for '(illustrated) hot babes' but for the cyberpunk setting), I prefer Kawajiri's take or Otomo's. I also want to address, that whenever contemporary anime fans willow and weep about things as story or narrative. 8 out of 10 times said fans don't even know what a good story is even if it hits them in the face. Most of their prized favorites are full with exposition narrative dumps, are empty of message, critisism or concept, does not even feature good visual language storytelling. And therefor I cannot watch Anime for it's good stories since there but a slight, slight, slight few, i've come to appreciate other aspects of it's medium. There's a lot of pseudo intelligence coming into play and sense of superiority from your ilk. Like 'oh, that's why it was popular in the west, but you know REAL fans like...', as if you guys aren't living in the western part of the world 9 out of 10 times. And that's why it's met with resistance from my side. That's why i'm defending a title that doesn't get more as 3 out of 5 stars in my book. I'll give you lot this... marketing was completely at fault here. Giving folk the expectation of a historical piece of fiction (nevermind that I haven't even seen one anime or manga title doing feudal Japan justice), created expectations for a setting that were not met. And funnily enough when they announced the project I was not interested, but seeing the trailer giving off a little Kawajiri vibes had me like pengting cus. I miss that era.
And so is a ton of the stuff your a fan of as well, when they don't age well in about a year or 10. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Snowcat
Posts: 190 |
|
|||||
|
I think some criticism in this topic come from the fact that the ANN review is too dithyrambic, nearly presenting Yasuke as the best anime ever made, and it's hard to agree with it.
I also like some old OAVs (Armitage/Gaiarth/teito monogatari...) even with their default because they brought lot of creativity, so in a way i approve the position of Lesean but i think it should have been done better. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
pixelatedlenses
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 35 |
|
|||||
|
Pardon me for the length of my post, in advance. Also, I apologize if there's any tone in my reply: I'm just honestly getting thoughts out and also, opening myself up to conversation about my review and the series, which hopefully, I'll get to have with folks who have watched the series in here.
I've by and large kept away from talking about why I reviewed Yasuke the way I did because honestly, I was genuinely afraid that people would see me, a Black female reviewer, and think, "Well, she only gave the review the score she did because she's Black! This isn't a serious/critical/genuine/smart review!" I was afraid that me being Black would discredit my opinion and make it apepar as if I wasn't being objective, and just fawing over the series. I have no clue if any of that has been said prior to moderation cleaning up in here. Hopefully, it hasn't, though... I've been on the internet for a while: I'm sure it was, or at least was thought of. I also imagine that there's been comments leveraged at me, personally, though I'm unaware of any and haven't been on this subform until today, and thank the mods for all the work they do to keep the subforums running. Yasuke, by all means, isn't perfect: please don't think that I feel it's perfect because it's absolutely not, but nothing ever is. There's definitely hiccups in the worldbuilding and the good versus evil plot is incredibly straightforward. Daimyo felt way too on the nose to me as a villian, despite how cool the charater design is. However, while I understand that my review might not match or parallel others' opinions, I ultimately think Yasuke creates new conversation about a real-life figure who, for many Black anime fans, represents one person we can look to and say, "We have a story that can told. We have someone in the diaspora who was real and live in Japan, and that's a story we can tell." That's really important to me as a journalist, critic, and reviewer who has the ability to maginify other's and uplift where I can. I think that intent was at the heart of my review, as well as my own genuine opinion as a fan of animation. Yasuke, the anime, is just one of many ways that story can be told, and honestly... I do think it feels good, as a Black person who works with Japan as a central part of their job, to see it being told as a story full of joy and unabashed Blackness. In fact, that's a lot of why I felt impacted, though yeah, there's definitely hiccups. Still, I don't want an animated docu-series. I don't want a serious series, at least not right upfront in terms of an animated production. I'd much rather not have to wait to get the fantastical. I don't want to wait to get twists and spins and creativity. It can be so exhausting to have to see a historical joint before getting to have fun with the "what ifs", even if they're way out there. I know that's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's kind of where my heart was as I really critically thought about the series ahead of my review. I think that's also where the heart of the folks who worked on the series was too. And honestly, I have to admit that I feel that even if this had been a review about a more straightforward, historically accurate story about Yasuke, the real life figure... it would be the same conversation, to some degree. Folks online would still find a reason not to like it, not saying that y'all are folks on line, in this context. I think people would still be upset even if a different person delivered a more "true" story. Of course, please understand this is my personal opinion: it's not at all an accusation or fact. I think there's a lot of valuable conversation being had around the series, and I really enjoy seeing it, and now, putting myself into the mix and conversation. Thank you, ultimately for reading my review, whether or not you felt similarly or didn't like it. I really love being a journalist, and I feel honored that I get to review media and share it within fan spaces. In many ways, it's a dream come true on a daily basis. I genuinely would like to hear other folks impression about the show. I love having conversations with others, whether or not our ideas and opinions are the same. I think that's one of the most wonderful parts of fandom: it's engaging and creating a conversation about the things we love. Whether that's praise or critique, all sides can be really valuable. But also, please understand that I wrote my review the way I did because I wanted to speak honestly about my own opinion, as well as the impact I personally see coming from Yasuke. Like I said, it's not a perfect series, but I do think it's important, and I fully stand by my review. I know it's not going to be for everyone, but my opinion is just one of many out there. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
|
|||||
|
I rarely read reviews here on ANN, I didn't read and don't plan to read the review. I'm here just because this is the thread to comment about this anime that I watched, that's it.
I wish people stopped talking so much about other anime and other's tastes. Can we just talk about Yasuke and judge it by it's merits? I tried to give examples about why I don't think this anime is well made and how it affects the enjoyment, can we stop talking about other anime peoples and talk more about Yasuke? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
musouka
Posts: 707 |
|
|||||
For what it's worth, I think your review came across as very sincere in your enjoyment of the mini-series--and therein lies its value as a review. I don't have a lot of nostalgia for the type of 80's OAVs it appears to be taking cue from, but I do have nostalgia for other anime from that time period, and your review actually reframes a rather critical reception here (and elsewhere) and makes me think of how excited I would be if something successfully tapped into properties that I love that are now considered "passe." That's just a valid and beneficial as a review that points out its flaws. It's a good review and you should be proud of it. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group