Forum - View topicThe Creation of Netflix Original Anime Eden w/ Producer Justin Leach
|
Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Deacon Blues
Posts: 383 Location: Albuquerque, NM |
|
|||
|
Holy crow, I did a mini-interview with him and other staff way back in 2002-2003 on the Production IG forums. I couldn't figure out why his name seemed so familiar! Good to see he's never given up! I'm looking forward to the stories he's hoping to tell and hope all goes well with the project!
|
||||
|
||||
|
db5007
Posts: 14 |
|
|||
Ah I remember! When I was writing the Samurai from NYC blog..gosh time really flies.. |
||||
|
||||
|
LightningComet
Posts: 48 |
|
|||
|
I hope Eden is both well-received and popular . It's been my observation that really high-quality works sometimes struggle to stand out among Netflix's huge collection of other content due to a lack of promotion from the platform itself, so it will probably be up to word-of-mouth, reviews from mainstream websites, and interviews like this one to increase the series' viewership.
However, that does not in any way diminish the accomplishments of all those involved. Congratulations, Mr. Leach and co., for realizing an original vision! Your efforts are genuinely inspiring, and I'll be looking out for more of your projects in the future  [/i]
|
||||
|
||||
|
db5007
Posts: 14 |
|
|||
I might be biased for saying so, but I hope it does well too! On Eden we tried to tell a moving story that could be enjoyed by a wide audience. Netflix has been very supportive on all sides, especially in Japan. They put an Eden billboard right above Shibuya Crossing Hachiko Exit. They are making figures with Super 7 and releasing Kevin's sountrack with Milan Records etc. I'm very grateful to Netflix for taking a chance on this totally unknown story. I hope other creators can get a similar opportunity to make more original stories if things go well.
Thank you for the kind words. Each artist worked so hard and put their own DNA into the show allowing the story to evolve and get better. It is true that it is hard to stand-out in a sea of titles so I hope that it can get good word of mouth. At the end of the day, the fans will deterimine the future of Eden 
|
||||
|
||||
Desa
 Posts: 285 |
|
|||
Thank god! Jankiness of fluidity is the only disagreement I have with "2.5D" animation. That jankiness is so annoying I can understand why some find those offbrand 60fps AI interpolations appealing. There's a real hunger for seeing people move like they're not in a slower timestream than you. In Houseki no Kuni panning shots and scenes where they're running through the world are perfectly fluid, no stutter no jank. However body movements and gestures when they're stationary still have some jankiness unfortunately. Jankiness on fast moving scenes can cause motion-sickness but jankiness on slow-moving scenes can cause irritation. Something really interesting and yet very subtle was done in Spiderman into the Spiderverse. There's a scene where Peter B Parker is teaching Miles how to web sling through trees and in that same scene Miles is animated at a slower framerate to illustrate his lack of experience and skill whereas Peter B is animated at full fps illustrating confidence and mastery. Take note Japan, THIS is how you intentionally use jank. Full-blanket jank is never the way to go. As of right now, the absolute pinnacle of 2D as 3D animation is RWBY (volumes 6 and up). Perfectly fluid motion in a rendered 2D analog does exist and it looks absolutely beautiful. I have many gripes about the plot, the characters, the writing, etc, but the animation is state of the art. Quite literally it is the state that all others need to surpass. |
||||
|
||||
|
TheCanipaEffect
Posts: 52 |
|
|||
I do want to correct this one point about Spider-verse. Almost that entire film is animated on 2s or 3s. There's a big misconception about the idea that the frame-rate for Miles gets smoother over time, and it's always done for narrative reasons, but that's not true. In fact, Spider-Verse and most 3D anime use the exact same logic. They want each individual frame to stand out. Some efforts work better than others. Sanzigen and Orange's approach is particularly handcrafted. One of the animators on Spider-Verse even used Land of the Lustrous as reference. |
||||
|
||||
P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
|
|||
|
I think of the difference in 2D and 3D in terms of practical purposes (just because I don't know the technical terms to describe them). 2D doesn't just look 2D, it presents unavoidable limitations in the type of perspectives you can animate. For example, see the last image in the article, this scene can't be rendered with a 2D look because you have objects moving from the foreground to the background in relation to the character. If you simply plop a 2D character in a 3D space, they look too mismatched. One solution is to put the scene in a different perspective like from the POV of the character for example. The other solution is render it as a 3D environment with the subjects and objects all looking 3D enough not to look mismatched. It seems like Justin was talking more about preserving that hand-illustrated aesthetic as much as possible while being unbound by scenery visuals and perspective that's typical of full 3D works.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Desa
Posts: 285 |
|
|||
I understand the sentiment behind this but it kind of defeats the purpose of animation, i.e. the art of motion. The way the brain focuses on stationary objects is very different from how it processes objects in motion. Trying to make all the frames in a sequence stand out is basically forcing two opposing perceptions to mesh which results in some jankiness. With Spiderverse, the overall intention was basically to make a "comic book come to life" and the way they alternate the frame-pacing throughout was to serve this purpose. This is what I meant by the "intentionality" of the frame-pacing. With anime it's more "we need to limit the frames because this is how it's always been done". However traditional anime isn't perceived like a frame-limited render, there is no jank. Limiting a new process to an old paradigm does not result in a traditional look and you end up with a poor compromise. But maybe people "like" jank. Yes it's possible, but I'm willing to bet that if you show anyone the same sequence twice, one with jank and one with no perceived jank, the one with lack of jank would almost always be preferred. It's like giving gamers accustomed to a consistent 60fps experience a consistent 30fps experience instead. Yeah they'll get used to it but they'll always remember how good they could've had it.
Not necessarily. Remember, an artist is not limited by his medium, only by his skill and imagination. The only way a brain can visually perceive a difference between 2D and 3D (aka depth) is by differences in lighting. If you take a sphere and add uniform lighting i.e. no shadows or gradients what do you get? Something indistinguishable from a 2D circle. Likewise with small objects up close vs very large objects far away. Differences in lighting gives perceived depth and distance. You can make 2D objects not stick out as much on a 3D background or vice versa by matching the lighting. There is technically nothing stopping someone from creating a perceived 3D space from a purely 2D workflow. You just need to continually redraw the background in relation to the foreground object. Yes, this would be very laborious and time-consuming but it can be done. Here's an example from FLCL (2000) : 
Newer anime like Attack On Titan also employs this technique in a lot of action scenes but with the benefit of modern 3D compositing tools allowing for a much easier time overlaying 2D on top of 3D and vice versa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNTtS37Lzqc |
||||
|
||||
|
P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
|
|||
|
Perhaps lighting is just one of many techniques that can add depth without needing to switch to dedicated 3D artwork and environments. But something to support my argument further that there are still fundamental limitations, think back to the aerial fight scenes of Macross and older shows before CG technology was utilized in animation. You always had flat depictions of ships on one side launching everything in the same direction to destroy ships on the other side in a space that's should obviously be very 3D dimensional. Its just one of the bazillions of tricks artists in anime have employed over the years that look cool as long as you don't ask yourself WHY they do it like that.
As shows needed to improve to depict that 3D realism better, animators relied on the advancing computer technology of the time. Only the very high budget theatrical studios could pull off more realism while still only employing hand-drawn cel animation. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just now that technology aided design and digital image composition is easily available to everyone, 3D environment rendering is TOO easy and simple. The hard part is living up to the demands of the viewers who don't want everything looking like Avatar or Final Fantasy CG films. But the average viewer isn't really cognizant that for some types of environmental visuals where the characters need to actively interact with it (such as aerial battles) there's like a minimal level of 3D imagery to avoid that Macross look, and also keeping the characters' appearance consistent between fast action and slower moving scenes. What you said about overlaying is very interesting though, I may have to revise my argument or totally agree with you on that point. |
||||
|
||||
|
Desa
Posts: 285 |
|
|||
Indeed while an artist could make anything he wants one is always limited in a practical sense by time. This is one of the biggest advantages of a 3D workflow. Arguably the greatest benefit of 3D is "environmental depth". Given practical constraints 3D will always be better than 2D at visually "bringing a world to life". This is because a world will always feel more real if you can move "through" it rather than just seeing it as a flat movie rolling past your eyes. This is the key behind the difference between aerial battles of Macross versus something like Sidonia no Kishi. In the real world you can see objects and people at all kinds of angles by pivoting your perspective. This combined with your memory of proximity is what gives you an awareness of space. Imbuing a fictional setting with a sense of space greatly enhances immersion and allows the viewer to occupy the same space as the characters. The world is a character in itself and the more you are able to experience it the more you are able to connect with it. On a side note, you can also take this knowledge and do basically the opposite, making a 3D world seem more 2D. Director Wes Anderson is best known for popularizing a visual style which uses straight, flat camera angles to intentionally make a setting feel more "constructed". This is why many say that his films feel sort of "nostalgic", like a classic painting come to life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba3c9KEuQ4A |
||||
|
||||
KitKat1721
 Posts: 953 |
|
|||
|
This was a pretty neat interview! I think with a lot of "Netflix Originals" it can be difficult to tell what exactly Netflix's involvement is on the project since everything is branded under the same umbrella (unless you actively go and do your own research). I was actually pretty surprised to hear Eden would be "the first-ever Netflix Original anime series produced directly by Netflix," but I guess it does make sense the more I think back on their catalog.
I also had no idea the core concept/story was in the works for so long. It really sounds like a passion project, and I was already intrigued from the early poster art/synopsis released back in 2019(?), but now even more so!
Yeah for sure, completely agree. Even with non-anime titles like the recent Mitchells vs the Machines, too often it seems like I only hear about them through word of mouth after the short initial release period has passed. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group