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Crunchyroll Originals Have Been A Disaster


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KitKat1721



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 953
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:36 pm Reply with quote
While I couldn't get into any of the shows branded as Crunchyroll Originals (Tower of God, God of High School, Shield Hero, etc...), there have been plenty of other co-pro shows I have been a fan of (mostly recently Odd Taxi). I get why the distinction between the two exists, but it is a bit confusing. For a while (before CR Originals were a thing at least), I feel like I used to be able to guess what was a co-pro depending on how heavily it was promoted. But now given how much of a crapshoot promotion can be (some shows get a ton of materials and access to creators while others get practically nothing), I just look to see if Crunchyroll (or Funimation) appears in the production committee credits.

Their handling of the whole High Guardian Spice (lack of) release however, really put a sour taste in my mouth as more time has gone on. While the show may have ended up not being for me, no one deserves to have their project treated like that. To have the people who are supposed to be the most directly invested in a project's success not only never bother to defend it, but just sweep it under the rug because of dumb controversy they helped perpetuate in the first place with their one track mind, short-sighted advertising... has got to be really disheartening for the people who actually made the show.
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Malsang



Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:45 pm Reply with quote
luisedgarf wrote:

Hollywood, and by default, American culture, had a very low tolerance to failure. If your movie fail to make any money, or in the worse case, cause the company to lose money, you're blacklisted. Period


Mmmm, technically correct, but only in the extreme end of things. If you're a big-name director given a movie budget of $400 million, and the movie completely and totally bombs, then yea that studio (and any other studio paying attention [which is all of them]) aren't going to let you direct another $400 million budget movie ever again. But that's just an extreme example. The idea that all of the current big-name directors have never made a movie that under-performed is silly. This article offers a good view on the financials of blockbusters, which are already so expensive that you can bet movie studios are doing their damnedest to avoid as much risk as they possibly can.

Circling back to the subject article, I find the dripping disdain towards Crunchyroll, and other large companies in the anime industry, both sensationalist and immensely unproductive. Even if I admire the legwork put in to writing this piece, if Crunchyroll were hard to reach for comment before then is writing an exposé about how their originals all suck and are bombing supposed to make them more transparent about their business methods? And while I agree that the current work-environment / pay of animators is downright criminal and an existential threat to anime as an art form, that is due to larger economic currents. Specifically, anime studios are locked in contract bidding wars with each other, so it's a race to the bottom. And to get to the bottom, the passion of bright-eyed anime fans are exploited to the breaking point. And it doesn't matter, because when they burn out legions more are willing to take their place. Japan's business culture is owed a strong share of the blame. Crunchyroll's entry into the anime market was never going to change that. Heck, doing so might be financial suicide. The only way out of this miserable cycle is for the anime studios to actually own the rights to the content they produce so they can share in the profits, but since most anime are NOT mega-hits, there is a very good chance that venturing off and funding an anime-original project will bring ruin to the studio. And since those people leading the studios might have genuine passion for their craft, the thought of tying the entire studio's fate to one or maybe a couple titles carries existential dread. And so they play it safe, and the cycle continues.

Actually, the REAL way out of that miserable cycle is for animators to realize that their wages are pathetic for the skill and time investment involved, and make a jump to saner careers. As long as young passionate people are willing to work for cheap so they can work in the anime industry, the exploitative conditions will never change.


Last edited by Malsang on Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1555
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 pm Reply with quote
Oh man, I completely forgot High Guardian Spice existed. But then, so did Crunchyroll.
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Piglet the Grate



Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 561
Location: North America
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:54 pm Reply with quote
Do any of the corporate suits actually understand why many watch anime in the first place, and what they are NOT looking for is just another mediocre at best American children's cartoon with some Japanese trappings? Based on how they cheapen and ruin everything else they get their hands on by cutting costs, putting production over quality, and appealing to the lowest common denominator, one thinks not. I will take 5 cours of Fruits Basket over the entire animated output of Hollywood from the last half century.
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JoelBurger





PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:04 am Reply with quote
Piglet the Grate wrote:
Based on how they cheapen and ruin everything else they get their hands on by cutting costs, putting production over quality, and appealing to the lowest common denominator, one thinks not.


That's not something unique to Hollywood or Western animation generally. Anime has pretty much always been about finding economical solutions, and the industry has been on the track of vastly overproducing anime since before companies like Crunchyroll became major parts of production committees (you can argue that they've accelerated the process, though).
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 656
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:06 am Reply with quote
Malsang wrote:

Circling back to the subject article, I find the dripping disdain towards Crunchyroll, and other large companies in the anime industry, both sensationalist and immensely unproductive. Even if I admire the legwork put in to writing this piece, if Crunchyroll were hard to reach for comment before then is writing an exposé about how their originals all suck and are bombing supposed to make them more transparent about their business methods? And while I agree that the current work-environment / pay of animators is downright criminal and an existential threat to anime as an art form, that is due to larger economic currents. Specifically, anime studios are locked in contract bidding wars with each other, so it's a race to the bottom. And to get to the bottom, the passion of bright-eyed anime fans are exploited to the breaking point. And it doesn't matter, because when they burn out legions more are willing to take their place. Japan's business culture is owed a strong share of the blame. Crunchyroll's entry into the anime market was never going to change that. Heck, doing so might be financial suicide. The only way out of this miserable cycle is for the anime studios to actually own the rights to the content they produce so they can share in the profits, but since most anime are NOT mega-hits, there is a very good chance that venturing off and funding an anime-original project will bring ruin to the studio. And since those people leading the studios might have genuine passion for their craft, the thought of tying the entire studio's fate to one or maybe a couple titles carries existential dread. And so they play it safe, and the cycle continues.

Actually, the REAL way out of that miserable cycle is for animators to realize that their wages are pathetic for the skill and time investment involved, and make a jump to saner careers. As long as young passionate people are willing to work for cheap so they can work in the anime industry, the exploitative conditions will never change.


I agree with that. Keep in mind Japan produce too much animation compared for the size of their country and population, and since the population of Japan is reducing, this will causing problems at short term.

The fact many animation companies still endulges on vanity or niche projects that lose money at the end doesn't help.

And there's the posibility some of those projects are being used for cover-ups for criminal activities, like the ones done by that Happy Science sect and their anime films.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:34 am Reply with quote
Piglet the Grate wrote:
Do any of the corporate suits actually understand why many watch anime in the first place, and what they are NOT looking for is just another mediocre at best American children's cartoon with some Japanese trappings? Based on how they cheapen and ruin everything else they get their hands on by cutting costs, putting production over quality, and appealing to the lowest common denominator, one thinks not. I will take 5 cours of Fruits Basket over the entire animated output of Hollywood from the last half century.


I'd like to give companies and showrunners the benefit of the doubt that they know full well what people like it's just that they choose to ignore it. I'm sure the people working at Crunchyroll and on the show knew full well High Guardian Spice would draw criticism. Heck, maybe they were banking on it since controversy is basically like free advertisement these days, even if it doesn't always translate to success.

If I had to take a stab in the dark, I think it's more that these people feel that these are the kinds of shows that should be the ones selling. Y'know? Like, these are show that needed to be made because if Japan ain't gonna do it then American creators have to to diversify anime themselves. It's not about what fans actually want, but what the people in charge think people should be liking. Like a kid being forced to eat their veggies when they want candy. Happens a lot in a lot of fandoms and industries.
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2945
Location: Email for assistance only
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:36 am Reply with quote
Yeah no, that's a projection.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5920
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:52 am Reply with quote
Piglet the Grate wrote:
Do any of the corporate suits actually understand why many watch anime in the first place, and what they are NOT looking for is just another mediocre at best American children's cartoon with some Japanese trappings? Based on how they cheapen and ruin everything else they get their hands on by cutting costs, putting production over quality, and appealing to the lowest common denominator, one thinks not. I will take 5 cours of Fruits Basket over the entire animated output of Hollywood from the last half century.


So basically Fruit Baskets (whichever version of the show you're referring to) is better than Pirates Of Dark Water, Swat Kats, Garfield & Friends, Courage The Cowardly Dog, Captain Planet, WINTWI Carmen Sandiego, OK Ko, Samurai Jack, Batman The Animated Series, Dexter's Laboratory, X-Men The Animated Series, Avatar, Static Shock, Gargoyles, Danny Phantom, My Life As A Teenage Robot, Rugrats, Fillmore, Animaniacs, Pinky & The Brain, Angry Beavers, The earlier seasons of Spongebob & Oddparents, TMNT 2003, Calamity Jane, Men In Black The Animated Series, Waynehead, Powerpuff Girls, King Of The Hill, Family Guy, Total Drama, Marvel's Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avenger's Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Kids Next Door, Ben 10 Alien Force, The Zeta Project, X-Men Evolution, Teen Titans, Superman The Animated Series, Justice League, Batman The Brave & The Bold, Beware The Batman, The Real Adventures Of Johnny Quest, Megas XLR.

Come on now.

Also fun fact Teen Titans did have anime trappings and despite some initial grumblings from hardcore fans people grew to like it.


Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5504
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:40 am Reply with quote
Quite depressing and horrendous, the amount of times i had to read "CR was asked about working conditions and they declined to answer". Really seems to confirm Mizushima's assertions, these companies just care about their bottomlines regardless of how many talented artists get burned out or overworked to death in the process
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:16 am Reply with quote
KitKat1721 wrote:
Their handling of the whole High Guardian Spice (lack of) release however, really put a sour taste in my mouth as more time has gone on. While the show may have ended up not being for me, no one deserves to have their project treated like that. To have the people who are supposed to be the most directly invested in a project's success not only never bother to defend it, but just sweep it under the rug because of dumb controversy they helped perpetuate in the first place with their one track mind, short-sighted advertising... has got to be really disheartening for the people who actually made the show.


Sometimes it's better to just cut your losses The same thing happened with Marvel's New Warriors trailer. It'd just a sunk cost fallacy to defend and put more effort into something than just simply going back to the drawing board after pretty much everyone universally disproves of something. I don't blame them for not dying on that hill.

BadNewsBlues wrote:
So basically Fruit Baskets (whichever version of the show you're referring to) is better than Samurai Jack, Batman The Animated Series, Dexter's Laboratory, X-Men The Animated Series, Avatar, Static Shock, Gargoyles, Danny Phantom, My Life As A Teenage Robot, Rugrats, Fillmore, Animaniacs, Pinky & The Brain, Angry Beavers, The earlier seasons of Spongebob & Oddparents, TMNT 2003, Calamity Jane, Men In Black The Animated Series, Waynehead, Powerpuff Girls, King Of The Hill, Family Guy, Total Drama, Marvel's Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avenger's Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Kids Next Door, Ben 10 Alien Force, The Zeta Project, X-Men Evolution, Teen Titans, Superman The Animated Series, Justice League, Batman The Brave & The Bold, Beware The Batman, The Real Adventures Of Johnny Quest, Megas XLR.


To be fair you're listing shows that are decades old. Most peoples gripes with American animation are about the modern stuff. We'll probably never going to see shows on those levels of quality ever again due to societal and production limitations. I doubt anything like the Birds of Prey song from Batman: The Brave and the Bold would be made today or half the stuff the DCAU got away with.
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IG



Joined: 02 Oct 2015
Posts: 60
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:39 am Reply with quote
Akamaru_Inu wrote:
I just wanna say, this was a great article to wake up to and read like the morning news. That headline alone jolted me more than any coffee could because I was so excited to read it.

I do want to say for the phrasing about HGS, "but others were outraged by the focus on diversity and LGBTQ+ creators." -- most of the outrage I saw wasn't BECAUSE of those topics, but because the trailer was doing "show, don't tell" so horribly and just boasted how diverse its staff was without showing us anything from the show and letting the character designs/characters themselves actually show us the diversity and themes they promised. it was very... I don't think patronizing is the right word, I'm still half asleep, but it was all talk and no product. It was very self-aggrandizing.

What a good article though, holy crap. I had no idea they were being so secretive about so many things.

Exactly! Lot people did not care the show having diverse characters in it.It was how they were executing and showing it.If your main talking point is how diverse your staff is and how diverse you characters are.You have already failed.
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Piglet the Grate



Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 561
Location: North America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:20 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
So basically Fruit Baskets (whichever version of the show you're referring to) is better than [...].

Come on now.


None of those shows are going to make me care the least about their characters and what happens to them.

DavetheUsher wrote:
If I had to take a stab in the dark, I think it's more that these people feel that these are the kinds of shows that should be the ones selling. Y'know? Like, these are show that needed to be made because if Japan ain't gonna do it then American creators have to to diversify anime themselves. It's not about what fans actually want, but what the people in charge think people should be liking. Like a kid being forced to eat their veggies when they want candy. Happens a lot in a lot of fandoms and industries.


More the Ivy League MBA attitude of "our product does not matter, how we market/promote it makes all the difference".

And they are right in that selling crap product to a crap audience can be very profitable.

AmpersandsUnited wrote:
To be fair you're listing shows that are decades old. Most peoples gripes with American animation are about the modern stuff. We'll probably never going to see shows on those levels of quality ever again due to societal and production limitations. I doubt anything like the Birds of Prey song from Batman: The Brave and the Bold would be made today or half the stuff the DCAU got away with.


The last animated American shows that I would care to watch again were made by Warner Bros. from 1930 to 1969 (why I specified the last half century).
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tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1448
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:26 am Reply with quote
I actually saw some backlash for Canon Busters tbh.
It was some rant post by Sankaku Complex, which I guess is similar to to Bounding into Comics (but worse). They shared their post on Twitter and it was pretty condescending.

It was enough for Stephanie Sheh to call them out on their bullshit.

I personally think that HGS didn't deserve what it got, but tbh I saw more people upset about it's so called "diversity" than anything else. They weren't upset that the women there were white, or that there weren't any men. but the term " diverse" is an automated time bomb for them. It's a trigger word that people seem to be highly offended by.

This isn't anything new to me, though. Fandom just can be as against it just because it's exists in the first place, and I'll never understand the justification for the anger to begin with.

That said, I'm saddened to learn about the terrible working conditions for staff and i worry that this trend may be going on with other Western companies. .
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 1210
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:57 am Reply with quote
Why can't we all agree that each market has their own gems and stinkers? One country's works of media shouldn't be used to evaluate the others.
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