Forum - View topicCrunchyroll Originals Have Been A Disaster
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Horsefellow
Posts: 262 |
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I would argue there's an important difference between earnest LGBT representation and kink fuel. They're not entirely mutually exclusive or anything, but there's a reason no one complains about Madoka and Homura, or Kanna and Riko, or Yuu and Touko; because they're always conventionally attractive characters in cute or sexual situations. Plenty of homophobic people consume same-sex content because they find it hot, but still harbor opposing beliefs when it comes to actual same-sex couples in the real world. Generally, western animation avoids all that. None of the stuff in Steven Universe is done for the male gaze or fetish pandering. Nor She-Ra, The Owl House, Kipo, The Loud House, or any of those other shows that have come out the past decade with LGBT couples and characters. I find that to be the huge difference between the two. The reactionary complaint is never strictly about there being a female protagonist or gay couple in a show, it's about them being a non-sexualized female protagonist or a non-hot gay couple. High Guardian Spice represented the more realistic and non-pandering kind of representation, which is why there was ire directed towards it. If Crunchyroll funded a typical looking anime with yuri in the style of Cirtus or Yuriyuri then there wouldn't have been any complaints at all, at least not from these specific people. I feel the distinction between the two approaches is important to make. If people do find positive LGBT portrayals in anime then kudos to them. But at the same time I also know a lot of people who get very frustrated at things like queerbaiting, fetishizing queerness, male-gaze, problematic archetypes, and all those kinds of things that sour the genre for them and require a lot of compromises to be made in able to enjoy these series. I guess my overall point is this kind of genuine, serious, respectful, non-pandering looks into the subject matter is not really popular in anime since it doesn't sell as well as the pandering stuff. |
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Puniyo
Posts: 271 |
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Madoka and Homura... always in "cute or sexual" situations? Did we watch the same show and movies? Nothing is as cute and sexy as spoiler[watching your girlfriend die over and over again and being powerless to save her], I guess. You can't please everyone at once, LGBT people aren't a hivemind. We aren't all looking for the same kind of representation. While more serious and non-pandering stuff would be great and something I'm definitely personally onboard for, not every show can or should be serious, just like not every straight romance series is. I'd argue it's more that, in general, more serious shows don't sell as well, regardless of their content. Comedy series probably do better than stuff like Snow White Notes. Regardless, Given, for example, did pretty well all things considered, and is a pretty serious and respectful, non-pandering show. Even though I'm a woman, it was the first time I watched a show - japanese or western - and really felt understood, because the scene where the main character comes to accept his orientation felt so genuine. Meanwhile I find a lot of the western stuff mentioned to be oversanitised and unrealistic. Another LGBT person might disagree though, because all of our experiences and preferences are different. But as for High Guardian Spice... did it? I watched all the trailers and didn't get that impression at all because of how little of the actual series they had shown. It might not be anime-style, but the characters were still designed to be cute and appealing. I really think HGS would've done just fine if it was announced by Netflix instead. Surprise, people who sub to an anime service want to watch stuff that looks like anime.
Imo the marketing may not be the root cause but it really, really didn't help. The way they marketed it baited these people pretty hard and left a bad taste in a lot of feminist/LGBT people I know, ultimately pleasing no one. I'm not going to pretend this contingent doesn't exist because it clearly does. However pretending that CR did a good PR job with HGS would just be dishonest, especially given honestly a lot of their PR hasn't been handled well. Last edited by Puniyo on Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:07 am; edited 5 times in total |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5888 |
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??? I've never heard this offered up as reason for why they canceled TT and it looks weird when you remember they produced Young Justice, Green Lantern, Brave & The Bold, Beware The Batman, Justice League Action, DC Super Hero Girls,......and TT Go which is basically a more comical take on the original TT series all this coming years after the cancellation of Teen Titans.
Yes? Just because you subscribe to CR doesn't mean they're obligated to exclusively spend that money on licensing or producing IP's created mostly by and for Japanese people and then stream that content to markets in other countries. Netflix is like Crunchyroll an American company that licenses and airs content native to it's market while also creating and streaming content designed specifically for markets in other countries and weirdly no one seems to mind that.....outside of that same content being region locked or exclusive specifically to the service. |
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kakugo complete
Posts: 71 |
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From the article:
I'll be meaner and say they're either lying OR their PR simply have no idea what they're talking about & make stuff up on the spot. They gave an interview to ANN specifically outlining the oh-so-clear difference between co-productions & originals, trying to make it clear In/Spectre is an original made specifically for CR & not a co-production: animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-05-06/interview-crunchyroll-talks-what-makes-an-original/.159103 Then called it an original on Youtube too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9QsM6PeTV4 Yet before that, they themselves called it a co-production. Which it absolutely is. https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2019/11/21-1/new-key-visual-air-dates-and-additional-characters-revealed-for-crunchyroll-co-production-inspectre |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7578 Location: Wales |
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I think it was a short way into this video that details not only the things Tezuka did to produce anime as cheaply as possible (a lot of which are still happening today and we're used to it so don't even notice), but also how he undersold it to get producers onboard.
Not really any different to the last series of Torchwood being promoted as a "Starz Original" when it had a couple's of successful series under its belt already. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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I remember 15 years ago I read said reason somewhere on the internet. But instead of googling for said quote, lets consider this. 1) Budget Constraints. Any business works on a fixed budget imo that is the reason crunchy has not dubbed Nagatoro even tough it is obviously very popular, they do not have money allocated for more dubs this season. Back then I think Cartoon Network didn't have do money to do Ben 10 and Teen Titans at the same time. 2) income by business unit. Even tough DC comics and Cartoon Network were owned by Warner, each one reported their own income and expenses (and therefore, their profits). Of course every year warner executives must pound into each unit executive that they must increase profits, paying DC comics for the right to use their characters is an expense, gambling on a new intellectual property they own is a sensible strategy to increase profits (and it worked). 3) Public relations. "Hey kids, we are cancelling your favorite show to get more filthy money, now please go watch our new show". No media company is so tone deaf as to alienate their viewers ... wait! |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 2930 Location: Email for assistance only |
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Combined some posts together. I know the ANN forum version is OLD and not friendly when you wanna respond/quote multiple people, but please try to combine your posts when you can.
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Top Gun
Posts: 4566 |
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Thanks for posting this, because it gets a massive +1 from me. Maybe some people got into this medium out of some (most likely misguided) perception of cultural differences, but that's not me. I love anime because I love animation: I fell for it as a little kid watching dollar-store VHS compilations of Looney Tunes shorts at my grandmother's house, and I've never looked back. The fact that anime is produced in Japan holds no real inherent fascination for me beyond the fact that Japan produces a massive amount of animation in a broad array of genres and demographic targets. I've often thought that, if the American animation industry had been equally diverse, I may not have ever felt the need to look beyond it for something more. As it stands there are many American animated works that I hold very dear. Batman:TAS remains one of my all-time favorite animated series. Animaniacs was sheer unadulterated genius. Avatar:TLA has better character writing than a lot of shonen series I've seen, and certainly handles its female cast far better than the vast majority of them. Phineas and Ferb cracks me up as much as any anime comedy ever has. And there are any number of other shows like Adventure Time or Gravity Falls or Steven Universe that I'd like to sit down and watch at some point. I don't care where it's from: so long as it's animated and it's good, I'll give it a try. Regarding Crunchyroll originals, I haven't seen any of them that I'm aware of, but I have nothing against them in principle. (Hell, I don't have a Crunchyroll subscription, so I'm not paying for them either way.) However, the reviews of a few of the projects I've read don't exactly inspire confidence, and from this article it sounds like the management side of things is a complete fustercluck. Oof. I know nothing about High Guardian Spice other than the uproar generated by whiny incels that can be summarily ignored. I don't have much personal investment in whoever happens to be on the creative team, other than the general agreement that it's good to hear from voices who have been traditionally grossly underrepresented in this industry. It absolutely sucks that the team has seen their project apparently shelved due to Crunchyroll's supreme marketing incompetence. At the end of the day, if it gets released and winds up being good, I'll gladly give it a try. |
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shabu shabu
Posts: 79 Location: Tokyo |
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If you dislike "incels" so much you might be in the wrong hobby as that's what anime is primarily aimed at. It appears Crunchyroll did not ignore them and knew what the fandom wanted in the end and for that they should receive praise. |
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ninjamitsuki
Posts: 589 Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology) |
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Add me to the list. In fact, I got into manga BECAUSE it was more inclusive and diverse than American comics and actually bothered to consider audiences other than "guy". And I definitely wasn't alone. There was even a corny news article about the phenomenon. (ignore the thing about a Disney Sailor Moon movie... Whut?) Last edited by ninjamitsuki on Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Top Gun
Posts: 4566 |
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Hate to burst your bubble, but there's an entire world of anime out there beyond those which are hyper-focused on ticking off various specific otaku fetishes. Fortunately such series tend to stick out like a sore thumb, which makes it easy for me to blissfully ignore their existence. |
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ninjamitsuki
Posts: 589 Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology) |
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Also... "otaku" and "incel" are not the same thing. Even the male otaku obsessed with moe girls (which again, are NOT the sole target audience of the entire medium of anime) don't all hate women. If you seriously think the two terms are interchangeable, that says more about your own view abhorrent view of otaku than anything. |
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shabu shabu
Posts: 79 Location: Tokyo |
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Incel is just a generic adhominem buzzword people use when they have no point to make. Unless Top Gun is suggesting that the only people who would dislike HGS are people who hate women. But then how come they like other shows with women? It makes no logical sense. When people use that word as an insult, they just mean it the same way they do neckbeard or virgin or loser. |
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Saiphaz
Posts: 60 |
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But they haven't, and I don't think it was ever the case. Be it manga, LN or anime, you'd be hard pressed to argue that women are underrepresented. |
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Piglet the Grate
Posts: 523 Location: North America |
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Hot Dog - We have a Wiener! |
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