Forum - View topicHow do you feel about internet slang and memes inserted into anime dialogue?
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4828 |
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Though I started to notice it in manga translations (mostly fan ones) and anime subs....what really pushed me to make this topic was Nagatoro's use of "sus" in the subtitles. I've also noticed things like "tsurai" or "itasou" being translated to "cringe".
Holy crap....do I hate "cringe". Look, that's NOT what those words mean! 
...I'm not going to beat around the bush; I so despise this trend. Why? Because I feel it is stupid, unnecessary, and it's going to make the show so dated...oh sure the 'Among Us' kids absolutely LOVE the 'sus' thing because "lol funny memez" but how are they going to feel about it in five years when nobody even uses the term anymore? The other problem is, it's going to confuse the heck out of foreigners who only know basic English...or people who are not meme-savvy. I also feel like only children and teens even like this sort of thing (you can correct me if I'm wrong) but for an adult who values a proper translation, correct spelling, and grammar, it's plain eye-rolling to see subtitles from professional anime companies trying to be "hip and cool with the kids!"...as much as some middle-aged man going through a mid-life crisis in the 90s. It's embarrassing. Thus doing this alienates adults trying to watch the anime as well. Call me a 'square', 'boomer', 'old lady' what have you...but as someone who translates manga and novels on the side for a hobby? I refuse to conform to this trend that is going to age as well as milk. 
Sorry for being so negative and whiny...I just want to know if other people here feel the same. 
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2459 |
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I feel like (in most things related to translation, really, maybe even language) it depends. A lot.
In something like Steins;Gate, where one (or several) characters was deep in 2channer culture, it makes absolute sense to translate that to channer-speak-but-Western. If a character is using Japanese slang in general, it makes sense to translate it to English slang (which, usually, like it or not, can be taken as some sort of meme, if the slang is new enough). Even considering all that, everyone's point of immersion-breaking (the moment you don't read a character's line as a natural line said in the setting but instead view it as a translator making a specific choice) is gonna be different. "Sus" has strong cultural connotations at the moment, but it's been used for a long time before Among Us existed. If you didn't know it was a meme (and in this hypothetical future where nobody is using the word anymore, let's assume they don't), they're just gonna take it as short for suspicious, as it's been used before, probably. I do however sympathize quite a bit with the "foreigners who only know basic English' part. English is, for all intents and purposes, the international language, and though services like Funi and Crunchy provide subs for other regions with their languages, I believe there's a vast amount of people from those regions consuming the content in English (for various reasons). This would make more "Americanized" (for lack of a better term) translations - think translating meters to feet or yards - generally feel confusing and unnecessary. But at the same time I'm sure a good amount of their intended audience - assuming Americans in this case - wouldn't really get it all that much if you didn't translate those things to terms Americans understand TL;DR it's complicated. Sus is fine tho |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I agree. I think the point of altering terminology, cultural context bits, etc. to something that the native speakers of the language the material is being translated for makes sense. As in translating but altering things from Japanese to English for an American market into things that audience would "get". Translation is not a perfect science to begin with. I think a lot of times many people get too hung up on the minor alterations or translations as if they're simply looking for a reason to be upset. I'll save my ire for situations for where it's more deserved. Plus, in most cases edits and changes, in terms of anime, need approval from original companies the material was licensed from. So if they signed off on it I don't see the point in getting all riled up. Especially when in most cases the changes don't affect the actual story hardly at all. Too many people just want an excuse to act indignant to justify their own assumptions and beliefs so they'll every little thing as some major offense and excuse to rile up the masses. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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Thanks for your input.
I agree that if a character was speaking slang in Japanese, they should speak slang in English too. But if they're not...then they shouldn't. @Redbeard 101 I know it doesn't affect the story in the show....I just find it "annoying". I find it annoying when a college-aged Japanese character is translated to talking like an 11-year-old American kid on Twitter if they are not intended to be that way. I don't think asking for the subbers to make them sound like intelligent, normal adults is TOO much to ask for. |
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3881 |
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I hear plenty of intelligent adult people speaking in the very manner in which you're describing. About half my coworkers are in the mid-20 to early-30 age bracket and it's quite common for me to hear them talking like "an 11-year-old American kid on Twitter", so it doesn't bother me that newer manga and anime translations are using slang. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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@Beltane70
Your co-workers talk like children? That would personally drive me insane...but to each their own, I guess. I'm also that person who will make a face when she hears someone say "I'm doing good!" instead of "I'm doing well" lol. |
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all-tsun-and-no-dere
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 605 |
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Language evolves and people use slang. Adults using slang isn’t “talking like children,” and you’re really coming off as a snob with little understanding of how language actually functions. I recommend making peace with that instead of being a language pedant. I think slang in translations isn’t the right choice100% of the time, but if the characters are using slang in Japanese, use slang in the translation. People threw up a fuss about the use of “cancel” in Kageki Shoujo, but if you actually pay attention, it was 100% the appropriate word. I recommend following translators on social media to learn more about why they make the choices they do. Translation isn’t just “not an exact science”; it’s not a science at all. It’s an art. There is rarely a single correct choice or 1:1 perfect correlation. Maybe you can pick out a word and see a different one in the subtitles, but it’s entirwl possible that was the most appropriate choice for the context. |
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Beltane70
Posts: 3881 |
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I'd say that they're talking like a generation that's different than mine. I bet teens and young adults from 100 years ago probably got the same push back about the slang that they were using from the older generation. Some of that slang is still in use today and is now considered quite normal. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Maybe I am going to be unpopular for this, but I do incorporate a lot of internet slang into my general usage. "Lol" as an example I have found I do in fact say out loud, it being slang for "that is funny". The thing is that a lot of general language starts off as just slang.
Also, I have a bone to pick with people calling out "sus" as some new flavour of the month slang, while it was actually in a very popular usage before. I was just checking, by searching and I can find pages from over 5 years ago talking about it as Australian slang. Is anyone here familiar with the sort of slang here in Australia? Someone would probably be seen as strange for not using slang, being an essential part of the language. There is a good chance that if something was translated from another language that didn't really use slang, but was aimed at Australians, it could sound unnatural or not as casual. Which I think is part of a point I want to make that sometimes translating the essence of something, such as how teenagers might speak in one language into another language for how teenagers speak, you might even up the amount of slang. You are going to run into problems too when Japanese has people use slang like terms that can be used for an older sibling or someone similar to one, but in English they just have bro/sis, just say their name or a similar nickname. Translators really need to just figure out who their likely audience is, and how to get across the essence. |
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Lupica
Posts: 88 |
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I'm neither Australian nor American but I have been saying 'sus' in regular conversation for decades. It's nothing new. I assumed that people popularized it in Among Us and other games because it was already something that people said? It's definitely been British slang since at least the 1980s, usually uttered while discussing the latest development in some crime story or drama show, and I'm reasonably certain that I've heard it from Australian pop culture too.
It bothers me when people are stiltedly literal with Japanese slang (and stilted in general). 'And You Thought There Is Never a Girl Online?' is a horrible adaptation of 'ネトゲの嫁は女の子じゃないと思った?' while something like 'You Thought There are No Girls on the Internet?', based on a stupid meme, would be snappier and the context of the meme would fill in the parts of the title lost in translation. The premise of the entire series dates it just as quickly as the slang. In any case, I'm from overseas and find US slang perfectly fine to pick up, at least in part because of how much US content is exported. I understand Japanese slang too. What I don't like are pop culture references being translated from Japanese ones (which I'll understand) to American ones (which I don't), and it's a big reason why I don't read translated manga form certain publishers any more. A lot of people are tempted to swap out Japanese celebrities' names for relatively obscure (outside the US) American household names or (the worst) historical pop culture jokes about baseball cards and nostalgic food brands or stores. At least in anime I can head what was originally said and avoid the mid-chapter trip to Wikipedia. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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Oh YES. I absolutely hate that. Not only does it not make sense if the manga takes place in Japan...it doesn't hurt people to learn about Japanese pop culture either...especially when you're so tired of the hype around American pop culture. |
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El Hermano
 Posts: 450 Location: Texas |
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Steins;Gate's official translation was really bad, in my opinion. You should not be changing references to other anime like Zero no Tsukaima or Death Note to Dr. Who and Star Trek. Kurisu quoting Death Note being changed to "epic fail, sage, called the cops" makes zero sense and ruins a lot of the feel for a series steeped into otaku culture. You should assume the person watching an otaku anime would know of or be interested in anime, rather than assuming Dr. Who and similar western works are some kind of common knowledge for the average American. Overall, I dislike slang in translations; at least the zoomerspeak ones. Translating "kakoi" as a generic "cool" is fine, because it's timeless. Translating it as "lit drip, bruh!" is not and will most definitely date it. "sus" may have existed before Among Us, but I find it incredibly naive to think that the current ironic shitposting trend of the game wasn't a factor in that choice to be used. I generally don't read official translations much these days, but it is disheartening to hear them going back to those 90s/early 00s days in inserting western slang and pop culture into works. I really hoped the industry matured and we'd never return to the days of Britney Spears popping up in series like Those Who Hunt Elves.
The problem with 'translation is an art, not a science' is it obviously only goes one way. If the intent is to truly translate anime into the way actual English speaking people speak, then it'd sound a lot different and use a lot more variance of words and phrases being used rather than sounding like it all comes from the same very small clique of translators on Twitter who only know how people speak one way due to their social circle. The thing about slang is a lot of words are used as slang. Gay is commonly used as an insult. Retarded as well. The f-slur is also used as a general insult to call someone. Heck, the n word is too as anyone who has used a voice chat lobby in a game can tell you . So would those be accept to put in anime translations in lieu of other insults similar to the whole "those guys (rude)" =\= incels" thing? I'm going to guess the answer is no, given the amount of complaints that happen when they do pop up in official translations. A translator was harassed off Twitter last year because they translated okama as an appropriate English slur in a video game and people called him a bigot. A very common one you see in anime is when translations translate "otokonoko" as "trap". It tends to get criticized, despite the fact that's a common piece of slang that millions of people use and always gets the intention of the scene and character across extremely well since it's a common part of internet lingo. So I have to disagree with the whole notion that it's about intent and meaning, because if it was we'd see less pushback over the "negative" slang and more problematic translations given anime itself can be very problematic. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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That is another part, right, being familiar with sensitivities? And as far as I know I think there is the place for English to adapt loan words in places, while the internet will still be its edgy self. Which reminds me of something. I have continued to be confused why translators always turn "Oni" into "Ogre", when especially in fantasy setting I think that there is enough of a distinction to even have both. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9838 Location: Virginia |
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DuskyPredator wrote:
I think this depends on who your audience is. Unlike a lot of other mythological creatures, the oni/ogre comparison is a fairly good translation. They do appear a lot alike*. If you are selling your translation to people new to anime or manga it helps them to understand. The thing is once you have been into anime or manga for any length of time the translation is not necessary. The same thing applies to common words (such as baka) or the use of honorifics. With manga, you have the option of putting translator's notes at the end of the book. Unfortunately, with anime this is not really practical. Fortunately, in anime you can usually see what is referred to. This is compounded by the fact that many Japanese mythological creatures have no correspondence to any thing in western literature and some words really don't translate well. The divide between those who think everything should be translated and those who think allowance should be made for the existing knowledge of the fandom is not going to be fixed anytime soon. *Unfortunately, the Oni many people become familiar with first is Lum who looks nothing like an ogre. |
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Professor Nihil
 Posts: 27 |
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Art without relevance is naive at best and yet to compromise art to keep it relevant subverts it's artistic integrity.
Thus in my opinion with transient fad-like anime and manga it is vital to stay current with slang and modern connotations, however such anime also lacks the timelessness quality of masterpieces of art in any medium. For example, take the series (TDPT) The Devil is a Part Timer, I found it amusing and rate it at 6/10, worth watching and enjoyable but not inspiring or worth owning. This TDPT series has a bunch of thing that date it specifically and will not withstand the test of time, after all it takes place in a very specific modern environment and uses a specific, outdated and archaic occult Christian cosmology. It makes sense for a series like this to employ slang and other references to period specific cultural aspects like fast food. Good art is seldom commercially viable and commercially viable art is seldom good. A fan service harem anime period piece aimed at lonely single males is fine with slang and meme references because the artistic bar is basically absent, breasts sell well enough, or gore or some other anime shock value gimmick. Gimmick anime abounds and is highly profitable but it doesn't even have enough artistic integrity for it to suffer from bad writing, because nobody watches it or buys the figures because of the writing. It's fine for gimmick anime to contain slang, I expect it. Take the Edgelord series Toyko Ghoul for example, I've watched every episode (6/10 for me) but I can't call it art, just entertainment. Lots of things that make great entertainment fall short of artistic merit, save for the design aspects from creator, in this sense all manga and most anime is technically art, but that definition is so loose that it becomes meaningless. But as for things I consider actually artistic containing slang and memes...? It depends. Does the dated slang and or meme like content drive the story forward? English is a language that is largely composed of words that have been gradually and slowly added, and their definitions have shifted over time. This make it very difficult for people to access archaic works insofar that they contain content that lacks relevance. I'll give another example, take my all time favorite anime Monster for example, in it there are references to concepts of biology and race that are no longer considered tenable and among these is Phrenology. Very few people have any real understanding of phrenology, or it's history and the context of use and eventual rejection. It was at one time a modern discipline, but that was more than a century ago. Slang is like this dated discipline Phrenology, if it is a part of the story in a natural way it can harm the quality of the work to remove it, despite it not being understood by the vast majority of viewers, however it does not rely upon an understanding phrenology to drive the story, instead it adds to the theater and presentation or helps create the world the story takes place in. When slang and memes are a natural part of the world being portrayed and the ability of the viewer to relate to and appreciate the show is not dependant upon them knowing the slang; then it's use is beneficial and intelligent. However if the show is gimmick (boobs and blood) anime it simply doesn't matter because there simply isn't enough artistic integrity to compromise. And lets face it, for those making the majority of manga and anime art has little to do with it, corporate focus groups, cost and profit analysis are the driving force behind most anime. And I will admit that I have personally watched more anime than anyone I have ever met and the vast majority of anime sucks. Ironic that it is my all time favourite medium of artistic expression and most of it cannot even get past a 3 on my scale of 1-10. But then again that is because I have seen so much that I have high standards. The same applies to TV and film and books. The last formal book I read was (a translation) the Analects by Confucius (10/10) but even that had issues of period specific language obfuscating the meanings and so to access the work properly took more study than merely reading it. This is largely because the translation I employed was more than a century old and anime as well as manga have the same potential issues. Last edited by Professor Nihil on Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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