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NEWS: Ghost in the Shell: Arise Composer Cornelius Tenders Resignation From Olympics After Youth Bul


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Egan Loo



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:52 am Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:
Aresef wrote:
I think it's a double standard when a drug arrest will lead broadcasters and studios and labels to erase someone from existence but this chump can freely admit to this outright heinous behavior--brag about it, have a laugh--and then keep putting albums, work on Scott Pilgrim and book this gig in the first place. Composing not just for the Olympics but the Paralympics. It's incredible it took this long for this to happen.


Of course drugs are going to elicit a stronger response, they're actually illegal unlike bullying which is also bad, but socially just frowned upon. You're comparing apples and oranges here.


Specifically, possession or use of cerain narcotic and psychotropic substances is illegal in Japan. By the same token, though, being an accessory or party to assault and sexual abuse is also illegal in Japan.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:02 am Reply with quote
There's a saying that people always remember how others make them feel. I think the reverse is also true, people remember how they've made others feel. For all the victims of bullying out there there has probably been a moment for each of them when they've wished harm or misfortune on the bully as a consequence of their actions: Karma if you will. I think this article essentially shows that karma exists in the sense that every bully eventually realizes and looks back on their actions and thinks, "man what an awful thing I did, how can I ever make up for that misery those people felt?" and those thoughts torment them until they can find a way to reconcile. So perhaps Mr. Oyamada can move forward with even the slightest notion of peace with himself that the resignation might provide.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:22 am Reply with quote
Past wrote:
There's a saying that people always remember how others make them feel. I think the reverse is also true, people remember how they've made others feel. For all the victims of bullying out there there has probably been a moment for each of them when they've wished harm or misfortune on the bully as a consequence of their actions: Karma if you will. I think this article essentially shows that karma exists in the sense that every bully eventually realizes and looks back on their actions and thinks, "man what an awful thing I did, how can I ever make up for that misery those people felt?" and those thoughts torment them until they can find a way to reconcile. So perhaps Mr. Oyamada can move forward with even the slightest notion of peace with himself that the resignation might provide.

Or, what is more likely: there was a huge outcry on social media, the news started leaking into foreign news, and so someone high-up probably "nudged" him to remove himself from the Olympics brand before he damages it by association...
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:19 pm Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
Or, what is more likely: there was a huge outcry on social media, the news started leaking into foreign news, and so someone high-up probably "nudged" him to remove himself from the Olympics brand before he damages it by association...
Yeah, sadly that seems more like the realistic, "how the world works" kind of scenario.
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Redbeard 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:07 pm Reply with quote
Lann wrote:
As much as this sucks, its not going to stop me from liking the guy and his music. Dont we all have regrets growing up? As far I can tell he hasn't been a sleazebag as an adult (which is a very long time), so I forgive his past.


There is a vast difference between having regrets and this kind of behavior. There is also a vast difference between someone trying to make amends and own up to things, and this guy just laughing it off because he only "offered up the ideas" and didn't actually do anything (according to him). If someone can do, or get others to do, such things and show no real remorse then they don't deserve any sort of forgiveness whatsoever.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4787
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Lann wrote:
As much as this sucks, its not going to stop me from liking the guy and his music. Dont we all have regrets growing up? As far I can tell he hasn't been a sleazebag as an adult (which is a very long time), so I forgive his past.
What music did he do that anime fans absolutely clamor for more of? The only thing in anime circles Cornelius is known for is literally just GITS Arise and his soundtrack was hardly on the same level as Kenji Kawai or Yoko Kanno's works in the franchise.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:49 am Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
Lann wrote:
As much as this sucks, its not going to stop me from liking the guy and his music. Dont we all have regrets growing up? As far I can tell he hasn't been a sleazebag as an adult (which is a very long time), so I forgive his past.
What music did he do that anime fans absolutely clamor for more of? The only thing in anime circles Cornelius is known for is literally just GITS Arise and his soundtrack was hardly on the same level as Kenji Kawai or Yoko Kanno's works in the franchise.

I mean... just because you only know him for his anime soundtracks doesn't mean his body of work as a musician is dismissable. He's a fairly famous musician especially for his contributions to the Shibuya-kei genre, some years ago two of his albums were on Rolling Stone Japan's "100 best Japanese albums of all time" list, both ranked fairly high. Having him work on an anime soundtrack is kind of like getting Dave Grohl or someone that level to score an animated series. (I think? I'm old and I don't know what music youngsters like these days.)

Just because someone is a bad person doesn't mean he can't put out quality work. There's this recent trend that as soon as an artist is involved in something sh*tty people immediately jump to discredit all their work. I think this is really unfortunate and dangerous - it carries the implication that good work can only come from good people, and the quality of one's artistic output is directly related to one's morality (or how one's morality is seen by others). But that is not the case, the world is infinitely more complex.

I don't really care much for Cornelius' music, it's not my cup of tea, and while I don't know him personally, obviously he's done things I find abhorrent and doesn't seem to regret them very much (because let's face it, this is a textbook case of fauxpology...). But at the same time I don't see the point in pretending that his music sucks just because he's not a good person. Whether someone continues to support him or not, is really up to their own conscience.
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Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 262
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:14 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
I don't really care much for Cornelius' music, it's not my cup of tea, and while I don't know him personally, obviously he's done things I find abhorrent and doesn't seem to regret them very much (because let's face it, this is a textbook case of fauxpology...). But at the same time I don't see the point in pretending that his music sucks just because he's not a good person. Whether someone continues to support him or not, is really up to their own conscience.


It's usually just a coping mechanism with a dab of culture warrior nonsense. It's basically rationalizing the fact something really popular or beloved is now tainted for them due to the actions of the creators. Happens to a lot of popular artists. Look at the people who suddenly try to say Harry Potter was never good, even if they previously dedicated their entire lives to the franchise and basically made their identity around it up until the last few years. I mean, obviously this isn't as widescale as Rowling, since it seems like most people didn't care much about this bullying revelation, but the principle is the same. Cornelius has been outed as a bad person. That means he must not only not be rewarded with future success, he must not even be acknowledged for any past accomplishments he did. People will now try to rewrite history and say he was never an noteworthy composer or how his music was always bad. Some people really have problems admitting people they dislike can be creative or make good things.
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Hellsoldier



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:18 pm Reply with quote
Horsefellow wrote:
SHD wrote:
I don't really care much for Cornelius' music, it's not my cup of tea, and while I don't know him personally, obviously he's done things I find abhorrent and doesn't seem to regret them very much (because let's face it, this is a textbook case of fauxpology...). But at the same time I don't see the point in pretending that his music sucks just because he's not a good person. Whether someone continues to support him or not, is really up to their own conscience.


It's usually just a coping mechanism with a dab of culture warrior nonsense. It's basically rationalizing the fact something really popular or beloved is now tainted for them due to the actions of the creators. Happens to a lot of popular artists. Look at the people who suddenly try to say Harry Potter was never good, even if they previously dedicated their entire lives to the franchise and basically made their identity around it up until the last few years. I mean, obviously this isn't as widescale as Rowling, since it seems like most people didn't care much about this bullying revelation, but the principle is the same. Cornelius has been outed as a bad person. That means he must not only not be rewarded with future success, he must not even be acknowledged for any past accomplishments he did. People will now try to rewrite history and say he was never an noteworthy composer or how his music was always bad. Some people really have problems admitting people they dislike can be creative or make good things.


Folks, it's not hard:

I love some Marilyn Manson albums.
I still want to see him locked up for abuse.

Harry Potter is part of my childhood and teenagerhood.
JK Rowling is a transphobe and I won't have any of it. And the actors from the movies already stated they stand in opposition to her stance, so...

I love Dissection's music.
Jon Nödtveidt was a murderer (possibly a homophobe), a psychopath and practiced animal cruelty. I am glad he got locked up.

And things of this sort.
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YamiWheeler



Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 97
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Lann wrote:
As much as this sucks, its not going to stop me from liking the guy and his music. Dont we all have regrets growing up? As far I can tell he hasn't been a sleazebag as an adult (which is a very long time), so I forgive his past.

Who is asking you to forgive him? What does you forgiving him mean to anyone? Are you one of the victims? No? Then your forgiveness is worth literally nothing.

As for sociopathic abuse not affecting your opinion of him, that's not the "rational" take you seem to think it is, that's a straight-up red flag that shows exactly what kind of person you are.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4787
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:02 pm Reply with quote
SHD wrote:


I don't really care much for Cornelius' music, it's not my cup of tea, and while I don't know him personally, obviously he's done things I find abhorrent and doesn't seem to regret them very much (because let's face it, this is a textbook case of fauxpology...). But at the same time I don't see the point in pretending that his music sucks just because he's not a good person. Whether someone continues to support him or not, is really up to their own conscience.
My point is that Cornelius might be a bigger name in Japan but for most of western anime fans, he's mainly just known for GITS Arise and I doubt most western anime fans knew who the composer for GITS Arise was before this story came out, which doesn't warrant the amount of hand wringing I've seen over him on social media etc when he's only had a minor contribution in the anime industry. And most western anime fans will probably go back to forgetting about him within a week. And you bring up he's more well known in Japan but noteworthy this story mainly got traction from people in Japan outraged about it and wanting him gone.
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ByakuyaToSaber



Joined: 04 Oct 2019
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:24 pm Reply with quote
IMHO, It has become extremely tragic that we live in a society where people track down other peoples’ past transgressions, past sick behaviors due to obvious mental illness, past crimes, past thought, and try to punish them years later after they no longer do those things, or are now rehabilitated, or have already been punished according to the law. The punishment they exact prevents their targets from doing something that is beneficial to humanity. Why? What purpose does it serve? How does it benefit society to have self-appointed witch hunters decide that they have the right to try and punish people outside of the laws that have jurisdiction over the individuals that they attack? As a child I had been the victim of various relentless bullies that made my life hell. It may be just me, but if I knew those child/teenage bullies had changed their ways and were constructive members of society, I would be happy, and I would not want to prevent them from doing good things today. IMHO, revenge is detrimental to the well-being of society. There is a difference between revenge, and there being a legal objective investigation protecting the privacy rights of the persons being investigated with due process being followed, with the laws of the land governing the process from finish to end. In relation to the topic of anime and bullying, there is a beautiful, sorrowful, and uplifting movie – A Silent Voice – that I highly recommend.
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Redbeard 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:03 pm Reply with quote
ByakuyaToSaber wrote:
IMHO, It has become extremely tragic that we live in a society where people track down other peoples’ past transgressions, past sick behaviors due to obvious mental illness, past crimes, past thought, and try to punish them years later after they no longer do those things, or are now rehabilitated, or have already been punished according to the law.


There is this silly little idea of actions having consequences. What is really tragic is people being able to get away with abhorrent behavior with no consequences. Regardless of how long ago their actions were. It should not matter if that person still does those same actions now or not, there should be consequences. It is also a vast difference between trying to achieve those consequences in regards to someone who has performed abhorrent acts in the past and shown no remorse and has not faced any sort of repercussions previously, and someone who did have to face repercussions already.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4787
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
IMHO, It has become extremely tragic that we live in a society where people track down other peoples’ past transgressions, past sick behaviors due to obvious mental illness, past crimes, past thought, and try to punish them years later after they no longer do those things, or are now rehabilitated, or have already been punishe
As someone who has been bullied in the past and struggled with mental illness, it’s kind of gross to attribute Cornelius’ past actions to mental illness when you are not his therapist. And also just because you yourself have been bullied in the past doesn’t mean you can speak on behalf of all victims of bullying.
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Lann



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:26 am Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
Lann wrote:
As much as this sucks, its not going to stop me from liking the guy and his music. Dont we all have regrets growing up? As far I can tell he hasn't been a sleazebag as an adult (which is a very long time), so I forgive his past.
What music did he do that anime fans absolutely clamor for more of? The only thing in anime circles Cornelius is known for is literally just GITS Arise and his soundtrack was hardly on the same level as Kenji Kawai or Yoko Kanno's works in the franchise.

I've personally been a huge fan of Cornelius since the year 2002. Ever since they played the music video for 'Star Fruits Surf Rider' on Saiko Exciting on the Sci-Fi Channel (UK).
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