Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Kageki Shoujo!!
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
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As a human being, it makes sense for Uncle to get involved, but as a narrative device, I think he's become more of an obstacle to the characters' growth than anything else. That said, I don't really know that much about takarazuka, maybe a character like that is a key element.
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gumbaloom
Posts: 265 |
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OK so looks like we're going to exhaust the material from Season Zero in Episode 5.
Stalker plotline was put to bed - looks like the spoiler[bulimia] storyline is up next. Again when episode 5 gets reviewed it probably needs a trigger warning because of the sensitivity of material. Looks like I need to get cracking on Kageki Shoujo !! Volume 1 if I want to keep ahead in the manga. |
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Tanteikingdomkey
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Ok so now part 2 of examining AI and how the aftermath to her incident is portrayed, along with her relationship is portrayed.
Before we go into it there was a very small scene that I liked in the manga, (that seems to be cut), with her during JPX48 where the leader of the group basically asks what her problem is, and she actually responds with the truth. But she is basically told You know a lot of people had it way worse you should be grateful. This is INSANELY common for people who have been traumatized by smaller incidents. She then tells the leader it was a joke (another super common tactic). This also goes a long way to explain why she just refuses to believe there is anyone besides her uncle that will support her. TLDR: Part 1 Ai associates feelings of Overwhelming terror and disgusts with the incident and anything she feels could be related/lead to another similar situation. Therefore she (as we see in episode 4) has a very strong involuntary reaction of overwhelming terror and disgusts whenever this happens, regardless of her deciding it is not right or accurate. This is basically trauma 101. Her uncle is really doing the best he can probably. He can't legally get her into therapy or get her any professional help she desperately needs. and was only able to give her a flight response to the situation whenever she has issues because of the ptsd and trauma. This has lead to her only learning to run away from any situation that might put her back in that place. UNCLE DISCUSION STARTS HERE (Recap OVER) So this episode really makes me think that the uncle is trying to do exposure therapy to AI. I want to start this off by saying that I think her uncle cares about her and wants what is best for her in her life. I also think that he has a moderately full understanding of what is going on with her. First off he doesn't tell her that he is going with her and serrasa to meet the stalker. He only steps in to stop the situation when there is the first real hint of anything possibly going wrong with the situation, (when sarasa starts talking about private info). In the manga the stalker never walks towards them and only holds out the bag. I get why an animator would want to do this...But it makes the situation not work well later on. I also believe he probably forcibly put sarasa and AI together. She told him that she found her obnoxious and she wouldn't respect her boundaries. His response to this was to laugh. I assume this was because he thinks she puts her boundaries out to far and needs to pull them back into a different place so that she can lead a more normal life. If this sounds problematic to you, then welcome to the minefield of problems and issues that you have to go through to try and recover from a "Small Incident" like AI went through. So with that introduced, lets turn our attention towards AI. I want people to think about two questions about AI. Has Ai recovered from the incident, and/or is she in pursuit of recovery from the incident? Personally, as someone who has gone through a similar phase to Ai. I would say that NO, AI HAS NOT EVEN STARTED RECOVERING from the incident. In this episode alone we see her totally lose control over her body from two guys claiming they want a selfie with her. And she says that, "why is it so hard for me to live in this world" while one of the guys says "he just wanted a selfie". LET ME BE CLEAR NOW, AI is NOT IN THE WRONG. Both panic attacks the guys where way out of line with how they acted (especially by Japanese standards). That said Ai asks "why do I have to be like this" and I think I can answer why. it's because she has not been in an environment where she can examine and try to manage those feelings. so when they come back up, they come back up at full strength and as a huge mess, and she has no idea how to clean them up basically, and their strength just overwhelms her. She has only ever run from those feelings, and she has probably added a ton of anxiety from them coming back up. it's basically become a HUGE negative feedback loop. causing the situation to continue to get worse. Again AI IS NOT IN THE WRONG. Running away was the only method she has ever had, and she has never been in a situation where she could properly deal with the incident or how terrible her only parent is. She has dealt with it the only way that she can. That said This is not healthy for AI. As much as she might want to AI is not going to be able to hide with the 50% of the human population that triggers her. Eventually she needs to learn to find Healthier way to deal with her trauma then running from it |
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SHD
Posts: 1752 |
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I don't think anyone is saying that Ai is in the wrong here with her reactions - the problem is that the story (and it's the same in the anime as in the manga) is not saying it strongly enough, while also portraying her as being clearly in the wrong with her prejudices. This is why I'm saying that while the story's heart is in the right place the execution is sadly lacking and comes across as blaming her and leaning into "not all men!" instead of emphasizing just how fucked up her psyche is and how none of it is her fault (and hey, perhaps guys shouldn't randomly touch women, perhaps, maybe).
I wouldn't have minded it that much if it wasn't for the whole stalker story, but that sits just so badly with me. spoiler[The whole thing with "aw you might be a creepy weirdo but you're not truly a bad guy!" - yes, being anime fans I think we all know people who are kind of weird and honestly a bit creepy, but are mostly harmless. But to bring a character like that up in this particular context, never mind how creeps and stalkers are an actual problem not only within the idol scene, but even for everyday women...] it feels so tonedeaf to me. (Anyone wants to read some truly disgusting things look up some idols' stories about fan meet & greets, where they're supposed to smile their way through everything from people with general bad hygiene to people incessantly asking for personal details, trying to rub themselves on them, or handshakes with certain bodily fluids they released just before still on the fan's hands... Obviously not all fans are like that, but holy crap. And that's not even mentioning presents with cameras hidden in them, trying to get their attention by stalking them and their family members, etc.) |
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Panino Manino
 Posts: 739 |
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I get it that the anime may makes Ai appears to be "in the wrong", but you all should know how anime and japan in general is with psychological issues so I don't have hopes that it'll be better than this. And btw, this anime will be like this, each arch dealing with a different psychological issue?
My prediction was really right, about that Otaku. I thought that this take on the otaku (that was not really a "stalker") was refreshing, it's "rare" to see these types of anime humanizing otakus, even if the whole episode ridiculed him in every opportunity. |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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So what does Sarasa see in Ai? During her conversation with her relative (?) she says something like "there's so much I admire in Ai", what are those things? From Her point of view all Ai has done is being rude to her, they've barely had any conversation, and most of them have been Ai telling her to leave her alone. Sarasa doesn't know about Ai's trauma and she barely even knew about Ai idol group so she can't possibly know anything about how she was forced to quit.
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FireChick
 Subscriber Posts: 2392 Location: United States |
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I personally don't think the show itself is trying to blame Ai for what happened to her. If it did, it wouldn't have had Sarasa and her uncle doing all they can to support her and have her back, no matter how rude she was being to them. It'd be one thing if they added to it as well, but Sarasa and Taichi have had Ai's back constantly, and continue to do so, and they never once openly claimed what happened to her was her fault. I can understand the creepy otaku thing being rather clumsily executed, but the otaku does acknowledge what he did was wrong and after he gets to apologize to Ai, he respects her wishes and leaves right after he's done, so it's still better than other media that tried something similar and failed. But what I don't understand is how you seem to think Ai needing to get over her hatred of men is somehow wrong. It's perfectly understandable that she'd be traumatized after having been violated by an older man, but that doesn't necessarily mean her methods of dealing with her feelings are healthy and beneficial to her. What she really needs is therapy, at best, but Japan has a rather negative view of that. |
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Tanteikingdomkey
Posts: 2346 |
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I really do appreciate that this series demonstrates the false triggers that happen as a result of her incident.
Here is the thing, most of the incidents that end up triggering, are just banal everyday encounters, that one minor thing happens that reminds you of the incident... and then you crack... So making the incidents turn out to be false flags like that, it feels relatable to me. Now they of course have to amp it up a tiny bit but, I would be more upset really if they weren't false flags probably. I am surprised that no one has brought up the argument that Sarasa and Ai had actually. It really highlights Ai's frustration about not having control over her body and emotions. this is what is going to (hopefully) push Ai forward to getting the therapy she needs if she is finally able to get therapy. The series also, really does a good job of threading the needle of calling out the otaku for being really out of line, but also actually giving him humanity and honestly helping Ai heal a lot probably. Both the uncle and sarasa, while giving him a chance to be a better person, also never stop CONSTANTLY going what you did was horrible. that was you being a stalker, you were creepy as hell, you have a lot of stuff you still need to work on. If they had made the otaku into yet another predatory guy, honestly it would have ungrounded the story I think. the show is really trying to say, look this is the effect of what these things do to people. actively RETRAUMATIZING Ai does nothing in service of that. Sure you could milk retraumatizing Ai for drama or try to make a point about perseverance or something else... but it does not really help examine what happened to her or the effect it has on her. I understand why this to less empathetic or understanding people could see it as her just being unreasonable or wrong. but to me, I think it does a ton to set up and explain how and why she is that way. |
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The Anime Binge-Watcher
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I'm honestly confused why so many people seem to think the show is acting as if Ai is in the wrong. Wasn't this entire damn episode about the otaku guy recognizing he fucked up, apologizing to Ai for scaring her, and promising to do better in the future? Sure, he may have meant well, but that doesn't mean his actions can't still have harmful effects, and the show recognizes that. It humanizes him without letting him off the hook for his mistakes.
And as much smarter commenters than myself have discussed above, yeah, Ai's reactions are incredibly realistic outgrowths of her trauma, and from where I'm sitting, the show has nothing but sympathy for her fears even as it recognizes she's not coping with things in a healthy manner. It's a nuanced situation all around, so to boil it down to "The show things Ai is wrong and is scolding her for it" feels incredibly misguided to me. |
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Dayraven
Posts: 176 |
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Thought the first half hit a better balance than spoilered discussion beforehand had me expecting. It’s the rescue sequence where it tips over into indulgent. |
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KitKat1721
 Posts: 953 |
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This definitely makes me want to check out the manga on my own afterwards. Its a shame it wasn't kept in because its so true the real life, especially in a professional setting. I can see why this stalker storyline is hit or miss with people. I think it did some things pretty well, which I'm ultimately thankful for (Ai is given the allowance not to be completely okay with her stalker now that he's revealed to be harmless and we aren't left feeling like she should have "done more for him" or whatever). But ultimately the show was a little too forgiving of the whole "this guy straight up followed her, a teenage girl he idolized, to a new city and went to her school to find her." Sure, he may have been harmless, but that isn't even the point. Just because you believe you have a good reason for doing so does not give you the right, and I wish the show came down a bit harder on that. |
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SHD
Posts: 1752 |
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Where did I say this? I never said that Ai needing to get over her androphobia is wrong. Never once. What I said was that the story was leaning too much into "not all men" and has a penchant of showing her as being unreasonable/over-the-top by relativizing her reactions to men wrt their intentions. Going by this story - and again, this is the story and not my personal opinion - her single traumatic experience left her hating all men and assuming the worst about them, despite most of them having no bad intentions toward her even if they're being a bit too familiar with her due to her being a (former) idol. Personally I feel this is a very glib and superficial approach, considering the context of her sexual assault, her complete lack of support not just regarding the trauma itself but all those years she apparently spent living with the man who assaulted her (her uncle saying "hey, you can come to me if you want" is not all that much, all things considered), the realities of male approaches to girls and women, the male entitlements toward women and especially idols, and especially considering the realities of stalkers and entitled, creepy fans. I understand the message, I have said many many times that I think ultimately it's a good message and the story has its heart in the right place. But, as I've also said many many times, taking a character with a backstory like Ai's, giving her a creepy fan who is also a stalker, and then turning it into a redemption story for the fan (who, again, had no bad intentions after all!) and a way for Ai to get over her fear of men simply doesn't sit well with me, considering the large picture. For the story to work for me the writer would have needed to show that while yes, obviously men are not all monsters and enthusiastic idol fans are not all potential predators, these people do in fact exist and the existence of perfectly good and decent people doesn't erase them; and it would've needed to criticize the stalker, or guys being too familiar with Ai, a lot harder. If the story worked for you and you thought it did everything fine that's cool. This is just my opinion. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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This is where I stand. I think it's fine for Mr. Creepy to have meant well and made poor decisions in trying to "make things right." I think it's fine for Ai to acknowledge him as a human being, albeit one she still doesn't want to casually touch. Where things go off the rails for me is the idea that Mr. Creepy's accumulation of "fan facts" about his favorite Pokem--err, idol can unerringly lead him to where she is and that he gets to prove his "inner goodness" by stepping in when she gets harassed. That was laying it on too think and puts Ai in a narrative position of basically having to thank someone that had just traumatized her a few hours earlier. |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 739 |
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I believe that people who "says" that "Ai is in the wrong" say that because of her behavior, not because what happened between her and her fan. And no, the fan did nothing wrong. When he criticized himself he was talking about shutting up and hiding who he is, not because of the hobbies he has and being a fan of Ai. |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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Probably some of this admiration has to do with Ai having been an idol, and perhaps a bit because she walked away. I know people like "odd-couple" stories, but like you I don't see much that joins these characters together. |
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