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EP. REVIEW: Kageki Shoujo!!


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gumbaloom



Joined: 11 Sep 2017
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:08 pm Reply with quote
So episode 5 ties up perfectly with the last part of the Season Zero Curtain Rises Manga. The last scene matches the manga perfectly.

Next week on to the main manga

But in any case this weeks episode is an eating disorder trigger warning ep. Matches the manga material perfectly

So far bar a few bits and pieces and the odd scene this is a pretty darned faithful manga adaptation
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15434
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:01 am Reply with quote
Episode 5 was pretty strong. Still kind of wonder what the series thinks of the teacher that essentially caused the eating disorder and then kind of excused things away by saying other people would say worse if she joined showbiz, so she would just be too weak.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:06 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Episode 5 was pretty strong. Still kind of wonder what the series thinks of the teacher that essentially caused the eating disorder and then kind of excused things away by saying other people would say worse if she joined showbiz, so she would just be too weak.

That she's correct. And technically she is: if a person is trying to make it in showbiz they need to grow either a very thick skin, or a very solid sense of self and self-confidence, because "fatty" is pretty much the least harmful thing they're going to hear, especially if they're female. Sensei acknowledges that it's cruel and unfair, and she does genuinely worry about Yamada, but she stands by her words. Before people start getting on my case, no, this is not my personal opinion, this is what the show said with that whole scene of her justifying her behavior. Me, I don't think she was right to behave the way she did and say the things she did. Of course "that's showbiz" should be no excuse. But, well, Japan. (And also so many other places and institutions that believe in "tough love" and "coddling won't prepare them for the harshness of reality" and so on.)

Honestly, this is a thing with the manga carrying over into the anime. It has a tendency to scratch the surface, but then pull its punches and retreat into safety, instead of going deeper, or questioning certain things about how the system is set up - opting instead to simply acknowledge that that's how things are for better or for worse, and put it on the individual to deal with it in however way they can. It doesn't bother me too much most of the time (except when it just piles up and the way the elements get handled just don't sit well, like in the Ai story) because, well, it's not necessarily a wrong approach. Things are like that, in this case Takarazuka and related arts do cater to a particular type of fantasy that has its own rules. Is that OK? I don't know. Is it OK that because of this some artists end up with mental health issues? That is definitely not OK. But that circles back to the realities of the business, and as a writer you either write a story that challenges the system, or you don't because your priorities lie elsewhere. At the very least the story touches on these issues.

(Personally I think it would have been a stronger message about building mental fortitude if Yamada had quit, saying "you know what, I gave this a lot of thought, and decided that I don't need this, I can have a singing career where it doesn't matter if I'm not paper thin, actually I'm going home and joining a rock band", but, well. I'm not the mangaka.)
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2633
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:56 pm Reply with quote
I feel like this series is inspired by more Classic Shoujo. But I also feel there are not enough episodes to do the more serious issues justice (at least not in the anime I am not sure about the manga) .

People don’t just get over Bulimia because a kind word was said or move on from sexual assault because they met one nice guy. I realize the series isn’t necessarily saying those two girls are completely over it but it does feel like the series is moving on from these issues and moving onto the next thing.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18138
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
I feel like this series is inspired by more Classic Shoujo. But I also feel there are not enough episodes to do the more serious issues justice (at least not in the anime I am not sure about the manga) .

People don’t just get over Bulimia because a kind word was said or move on from sexual assault because they met one nice guy. I realize the series isn’t necessarily saying those two girls are completely over it but it does feel like the series is moving on from these issues and moving onto the next thing.

While I don't disagree with you on any of these points, to a degree this is a practical storytelling limitation. Fully playing out issues like that usually requires a primary or singular focus from the writing (see A Silent Voice for an excellent example of this done right), so this would become a different story if it completely played out those issues. The best that can probably be realistically hoped for is that the issues aren't completely forgotten about going forward.

(And for the record, this isn't a problem limited to anime/manga or the classic shoujo genre in particular. Bringing up problems like this for dramatic purposes and then hand-waving them later is an all-too-common problem across multiple genres and media types.)
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1dbad



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 709
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:22 am Reply with quote
Strongest episode so far. The previous episodes weren't terrible but I generally found myself preferring the manga version of events. This one not only impressed me, but even moved me to tears. Hope it keeps it up!
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Kjupiter



Joined: 26 Apr 2020
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:25 pm Reply with quote
I have a serious question about the review for episode 4. I am asking in good faith, and as a person who has struggled for decades and currently with debilitating body dysmorphia and an eating disorder and various chronic anxiety-related comrbidities.

Who is the trigger warning for, and how does this serve them?

Because what triggers my body dysmorphia and eating disorder isn’t blunt depictions and discussions of the topic in media and reviews of said media. My body dysmorphia is triggered by trying on clothes, photographs of myself, standing in front of a mirror, unattainable beauty standards in media, rude, body-shaming comments from other people, and various other things—but none of those things include just TALKING about it frankly. Even when depicted irresponsibly in media, the only thing that “triggers,” really, is anger, and tbh that can generate more productive discourse. Besides, media and people with irresponsible and/or stupid things to say about eating disorders (or any mental illness) aren’t going to put a trigger warning in front of their content.

I realize that the people who share my disorder(s) are not a monolith. I can only speak from my lived experience and the experiences of those with the same issues who’ve chosen to share their experiences with me.and I also realize that not everyone who lives with these mental health issues have access to professional medical help for it. But at best, the trigger warning here (and in most cases) seems well-intentioned but unnecessary, and at worst it is performative, ineffective, and distracting.

There is growing, peer-reviewed research that trigger warnings may cause more harm. The gold standard for treating anxiety-related mental disorders are is exposure therapy. And the consensus among mental health professionals is that avoidance is the WORST way to deal with trauma and anxiety-related mental illness. Which begs the question: again, who is this trigger warning for, and how does this serve them?

If I was going to be ungenerous about it, I would say that including a trigger warning here (and in most cases) is more about protecting the reviewer from comments admonishing them for not including one in the comments. However, I actually believe that it’s more of an empty gesture. It is something that people—good, well-meaning people—do to FEEL like they are being sensitive and considerate in the face of really sad issues they are mostly powerless to do anything about.

I’m not trying to dog the reviewer about this—I like the series, appreciate and respect the reviewer’s insight. Nor is this an anti-PC rant—the anti-“woke”’crowd can miss me. I also know that saying something here isn’t going to change this practice anytime soon. It’s just something I’ve been thinking about and I usually ignore, even though it bothers me every time I see it in the (sigh) “discourse.” But I think it’s a question worth considering for anyone who considers themselves an ally and an advocate for people with mental health issues. What are we really trying to do, and is this really the best way to mitigate harm?
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3442
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:59 pm Reply with quote
I still don't quite understand how the school/Kouka work which make it hard to judge if the show outcome is a good one. Does the troupe need 40 new people every year? It seems like the performance have a large cast, but do the minor performer earn a decent salary? What do they learn and what are their grades based on?

In other word, what happen to the student who graduate 40/40 in the troupe? Are they doomed to play small insignificant part for awful salary but can't switch job since they've learned nothing that could be of any use outside Kouka (I supposed they'll learn some ballet/ dancing/singing but those aren't skill that really pay for the bottom 90% of performer either)? If the bottom player are really destined to a life of mediocrity then the harsh female teacher is 100% right and the nice male teacher shouldn't have tried to lift her spirit and tell her to keep going, because that's just dooming her to a worthless life. Much better she drop out asap so as to not waste time and quickly re integrate normal school system.
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pixelatedlenses
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 15 Apr 2021
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Kjupiter wrote:
I have a serious question about the review for episode 4. I am asking in good faith, and as a person who has struggled for decades and currently with debilitating body dysmorphia and an eating disorder and various chronic anxiety-related comrbidities.

Who is the trigger warning for, and how does this serve them?


I'll keep my answer short, because I don't personally want to divulge too much personal information about myself. The trigger was for anyone who might be bothered by the conversation and the imager, as well as for myself. I, like many people, have dealt with disordered eating, and continue to have private struggles with it, as well as the culture of body policing. I'm not going to give you the details, in large part because they're not anyone's business.

I understand your feelings, but as you said: your experience with your own dysmorphia is your own, and I am earnestly sorry that you have to hurt at all. I genuinely can't imagien your pain because it'll always be through the lens of my own experiences and the media/information I consume, to some degree, and vice versa. And I certainly hope what I say after this doesn't come off like me invalidating how you feel because that's not my intent: struggling is struggling, and while our own internal struggles might be different, they're no lesser or greater when compared to one another.

For me personally, I think that putting a TW/CW when applicable is a right thing to do, and can help people that are directly triggered, or even affected, by blunt depictions in visual media. Also, lots of media has a trigger warning: a rating of "R" or "PG-13" is, in and of itself, a content warning, on a variety of levels. It says: "You're not old enough for this in our society." It says: "Hey, this might have some stuff that won't sit right with you, so... maybe try something more your speed today, okay?" and at base, it gives a lot of info. It's not a matter of avoidance: it's a matter of consideration, a warning that something might have content that might make someone feel some kind of way. It helps people prepare for the impact: it gives people a chance to brace. If that means avoiding it, then that's fine because it's neither your, nor my, decision in the end, is it?

The world is a place where people have a choice: be cruel, or be kind. It's a choice we make every single day when we wake up, whether we think of it, or not. When I put trigger warnings and content warnings into my reviews for particularly hard things, I believe I'm being kind: I believe that I'm doing my best to see as many people as I can, to make my work accessible, and to give a heads up and be kind in the small ways I can. Whether or not they might be necessary isn't the point: it's the intent of making my reviews do the least amount of harm possible, especially when it comes to potentially triggering topics. I will most likely do this for as long as I write when I think it's necessary and might mitigate hurting others, or at leave, until their genuine research indicating otherwise.

Thanks for your thoughts: I hope you continue to enjoy your watch of Kageki Shojo. Hope you have a truly pleasant day.
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Lupica



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:45 am Reply with quote
I don't have this flavor of body image issues (though I do have others!) but I wanted to add another quick comment on the warning issue. The content in episode 5 isn't something that would personally trigger me, however knowing that it will happen still has value. It might turn something that I would otherwise take as a lighthearted theatre show into a much more serious drama, and that might affect the mental state in which I want to watch it and also the group I want to be watching it with; I'm more comfortable talking about stuff that bothers me with certain people. For example, it doesn't bother me to watch a title highlighting an issue I experience but I might not want to read the discourse about it around somebody who doesn't know about my trauma. It might provoke real world conversations that I don't want to be having.

So I think there is value in warning people what they're getting into up front without it being excessively overprotective or directly linked to the most likely responses. These weekly reviews sometimes get me back into checking out a series I might have dropped early on and knowing that they do - or don't - tackle a particular topic can be pivotal in making that decision.

Veering back onto the main conversation, I'm not reading the manga so have only a superficial knowledge of the series from watching the show itself, but what I got out of these two arcs seems different to the prevailing consensus. I have experienced crippling, debilitating anxiety like Ai is shown suffering through (though thankfully my childhood was nothing like hers) and that arc was very emotional for me. It made me uncomfortable that she ended up in that chain of uncomfortable situations leading up to having to confront the creepy guy who sent her life spiralling into another low in the first place. I never once thought that the show was minimizing Ai's trauma or inviting the audience to criticize her 'weakness'. Being afraid of men is objectively 'incorrect' (not least because it hurts the sufferer far more than the ones she's avoiding) but nobody with an ounce of compassion could possibly blame Ai for feeling the way she does. So if the show was supposed to be telling me to look down on her for getting upset over such minor things, that never came across at all.

I also didn't especially think that the stalker was lionized in the end. He felt bad for hurting her, which was a genuine, human response, but he'd been guilty of objectifying her in the past even if it wasn't in the creepy way Ai had first assumed. Idol culture is all about objectifying the idol, even if you're telling yourself that you genuinely care about them for their own sake. It wasn't explicitly said but I definitely felt that was implied. I came away from that arc feeling that he still had a long way to go on his personal journey and all he'd done was make a little progress after all of the missteps. The guy's heart was in the right place but he wasn't a hero. Even when he treated her respectfully he came across as awkward. And when he took her handkerchief at the end. They're both works in process dealing with their own emotional issues. Nobody came out of that arc smelling of roses other than Sarasa.

The eating disorder arc was similar, though the male teacher was genuinely decent which put him head and shoulders above his female counterpart and the kindly-but-not-so-effective uncle from Ai's backstory. The thing is that in real life, when you're in a place where you badly need help and look to other people to bail you out, most of them really will drop the ball and fail to give you the support you need. Sometimes they can't relate to the problem well enough, sometimes they're scared of going against society and sometimes they're just too wrapped up in other problems. When I was struggling in my life I'd have killed for somebody like the male teacher to hurtle into my life and give me that push early enough that my problems were still (relatively) easy to resolve. But they never came. Sometimes you just have to make do with a well-meaning uncle who has no idea what he's doing and didn't do as good a job as he should have done. In hindsight, if Ai ever opened up to him fully, I think he'd feel just as awful about his lack of action as everyone else did watching it play out. (The female teacher, however, gets no such pass. Sometimes you can be objectively correct about something yet get it completely wrong at the exact same time.)

Would it have been awesome if the main thrust of the series wasn't succeeding on the stage, but unpicking all of the sexist, creepy issues lying hidden under the glossy surface so that nobody else ever has to suffer through them again? Yeah. I'd like to watch that show a lot. Bullying is uncomfortable viewing and there'd be a lot of catharsis in seeing a main character dismantling the whole system on her way up. But that's not what this series is about, as far as I can tell. I'm ok with watching this more passive take on the problems. And if somebody makes a fantasy show where the bullies are given their comeuppances each time instead, I'd definitely watch that too.
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1dbad



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 709
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Another good episode this week. It was nice having a bit of a breather after the heavy issues explored these past 3 episodes. I'm also appreciating seeing more of the theatrical side of things. Ai trying to be a good friend to Sarasa is so endearing.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:43 am Reply with quote
So apparently Sarasa's real talent lies not in acting, but in mimicry. I was not surprised that the teacher saw right through her, down to recognizing the specific performance she was recreating (I haven't read the manga, but if that's not what happened there ("Your impression was uncanny"), then I will be surprised). Fortunately, she's here to learn to act, and she has her secondary talent of a vivid imagination to bolster her.

This episode got me interested in her fellows at home. I'm not sure what to make of either of them, because I honestly haven't been paying much attention to them until now. I don't even remember seeing Akiya before, let alone knowing that he's supposedly her boyfriend. And what's Kousaburou's relationship to her? I know I should know, but all I remember is that Takehito Koyasu is voicing him, and I can't decide if he's being creepy or not. Smile
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Mami-kouga



Joined: 19 Jan 2021
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:57 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
So apparently Sarasa's real talent lies not in acting, but in mimicry. I was not surprised that the teacher saw right through her, down to recognizing the specific performance she was recreating (I haven't read the manga, but if that's not what happened there ("Your impression was uncanny"), then I will be surprised). Fortunately, she's here to learn to act, and she has her secondary talent of a vivid imagination to bolster her.

This episode got me interested in her fellows at home. I'm not sure what to make of either of them, because I honestly haven't been paying much attention to them until now. I don't even remember seeing Akiya before, let alone knowing that he's supposedly her boyfriend. And what's Kousaburou's relationship to her? I know I should know, but all I remember is that Takehito Koyasu is voicing him, and I can't decide if he's being creepy or not. Smile


Akiya being Sarasa's boyfriend is something that should have been mentioned as early as the second episode, but they changed that and removed the little mini arc of the girls trying to figure out who he was then just assuming he was a husbando twitterbot (except Ai). I can only assume it was changed because they've been removing all the direct anime and manga references and the punchline hinges of them seeing that his account handle is "Jirayabot".

As for what to think of them, the part I read in the manga hadn't expanded what their deal was so I don't know either. Kousaburou seems to dote over Sarasa, but his constant inserting himself into her and Akiha's dynamic does make him come off as strange, though there's also the possibility that they currently don't have the best relationship since he avoids letting her know when he's sending her gifts or mentioning his name when he gives her advice
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:00 am Reply with quote
Mami-kouga wrote:
Akiya being Sarasa's boyfriend is something that should have been mentioned as early as the second episode,

It was mentioned, Sarasa said it in passing that she has a boyfriend. It's just that nobody took it seriously.

Mami-kouga wrote:
As for what to think of them, the part I read in the manga hadn't expanded what their deal was so I don't know either. Kousaburou seems to dote over Sarasa, but his constant inserting himself into her and Akiha's dynamic does make him come off as strange, though there's also the possibility that they currently don't have the best relationship since he avoids letting her know when he's sending her gifts or mentioning his name when he gives her advice

In the manga spoiler[it's heavily implied that Kouzaburou is Sarasa's father].


Last edited by SHD on Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mami-kouga



Joined: 19 Jan 2021
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:02 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
Mami-kouga wrote:
Akiya being Sarasa's boyfriend is something that should have been mentioned as early as the second episode,

It was mentioned, Sarasa said it in passing that she has a boyfriend. It's just that nobody took it seriously.

Mami-kouga wrote:
As for what to think of them, the part I read in the manga hadn't expanded what their deal was so I don't know either. Kousaburou seems to dote over Sarasa, but his constant inserting himself into her and Akiha's dynamic does make him come off as strange, though there's also the possibility that they currently don't have the best relationship since he avoids letting her know when he's sending her gifts or mentioning his name when he gives her advice

In the manga it's heavily implied that spoiler[Kouzaburou is Sarasa's father].


Oh I know it was indirectly mentioned, I was more referring to them just out and out saying it.

And huh... interesting...
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