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EP. REVIEW: Higurashi: When They Cry – SOTSU


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Dayraven



Joined: 21 Jul 2021
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:28 am Reply with quote
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Having Eua quickly watching the events of Gou Ep 15/16 on crystal fragments next episode would be a saving grace, honestly.

EUA: “I think you’re taking this ‘do something gut-wrenching’ idea a bit too literally, Satoko….”

It’s only 4 episodes left, not 5, if it does wrap up here — this was episode 11 of 15.
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rizuchan



Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 974
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:12 am Reply with quote
Much like Lynzee, this episode was so repetative I spent a good portion of it contemplating the copious amounts of blood...

Is it me, or is Gou/Sotsu weirdly inconsistent with the gore level? It's weird to me that Teppei and Keiichi were bludgeoned to death/near death, but the result is just... copious amounts of blood everywhere, when it would be a lot gore-ier in real life. I feel like I've seen a lot of other anime (OG Higurashi and Umineko?) that dealt with bludgeoning and head wounds in a way that was still sufficiently horrifying without making the audience puke. The way this episode just splashed a bucket of red paint everywhere felt really PG-13 for a show that had a graphic disemboweling scene last season.
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danpmss



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 763
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:20 pm Reply with quote
I actually tried to trim the entire Sotsu experience and posted the results on reddit:
Short Answer, it is not possible and it doesn't have nearly as much padding and "narrative handholding" as it seems to have. just a couple of recaps that truly overstay their welcome noticeably.

My report goes as follows:

Quote:
Oniakashi-hen
Total: 71min 30s (1h 11min 30s).
Trimmed to: 59min 27s (-).
Total Trimmed Time: 12min 3s (-).
From Which: 6min (OP/ED), 45s (Logos/Jikai).
Actually Trimmed Content Total: 5min 18s (Aprox. 7,41% of the arc is trimmable).
Trimmed Content List:
- K1 and Rena's conversation going back home and about half of the junkyard scene (partially irrelevant recap).
- Cut most of the pen game scene (only the conclusion is relevant in this recap, as it nets to Rena's infirmary scene).
- Cut most of the zombie tag game scene (only the scene with K1 by the end is relevant).
- Rika's Endless 8 Dance.
*Some transition recap scenes could barely save any seconds, so I left them in, would do more harm than good taking them away*

Wataakashi-hen
Total: 71min 30s (1h 11min 30s).
Trimmed to: 63min 40s (1h 3min 40s).
Total Trimmed Time: 7min 50s (-).
From Which: 6min (OP/ED), 45s (Logos/Jikai).
Actually Trimmed Content Total: 1min 5s (Aprox. 1,51% of the arc is trimmable).
Trimmed Content List:
- Part of the Watanagashi (Rika's Dance & K1/Shion meeting with Takano/Tommy, as it is recapped by them through phone anyway, which was the actually relevant part).
*Considered trimming a bit of the tournament day recap, but it was so short that it would barely save any time and would just make things flow poorly, since the storytelling nets to the scene in which they go get a drink together after winning their match before everyone, not to mention most scenes being new*

Tatariakashi-hen
Total: 118min 58s (1h 58min 58s).
Trimmed to: 98min 6s (1h 38min 6s).
Total Trimmed Time: 20min 52s(-).
From Which: 10min 30s (OP/ED), 1min 3s (Logos/Jikai).
Actually Trimmed Content Total: 9min 19s (Aprox. 7,83% of the arc is trimmable).
Trimmed Content List:
- Cut the entirety of the baseball day and only left the barbecue day in the edit (there was nothing essential in there, despite some new angles and K1 blushing I guess).
- Removed several padding scenes of Rika waiting Satoko, slowly walking to the classroom + recap, thus jumping directly to lunch time (all irrelevant for the narrative).
- Cut most of the club's conversation (reedited the entire Satoko rolling segment without the convo, except for the ending, which is relevant, the rest is just repeated info).
- Cut scene with Ooishi just looking at the junkyard scratching his neck for a few seconds (Oyassan related, but non essential).
- Cut the ending of Tatari 04, since it repeats without credits in the next episode (very convenient to this edit).
- Cut the conversation at the toori up to when Rika starts monologuing about her character arc in the OG (not in Tataridamashi and barely talked about in Nekodamashi, so I'll keep it).
- Cut what I could from the full dance scene (reedited a bunch here too, as, although it's the first time we see all of it, I don't think it's much important outside the aforementioned monologue).
- Cut Nii-Nii conversation even though it nets to K1 getting omochikaeri-ed (since nothing essential is missing as she calls him Nii-Nii once more and tell him that it's his house as well shortly after).
*Considered cutting part of the conversation leading to the night meeting, but it damages the storytelling, so I didn't*
*Could have saved 28 seconds from the recap just before Ooishi appears and begins his slaughter, but it does more harm than good for the presentation, and I also didn't cut (I doubt it's even possible) anything revisited from the much improved Delicious Cloud Massacre scene*

NOTE: The following arcs have been trimmed of all but the first OP and last ED. Tatariakashi is an exception as it doesn't have its first opening, just credits, and thus is lacking one by default.

Conclusion: It isn't possible to remove a full episode from any of the arcs, even if one were to completely omit all of the OPs/EDs "Re:Zero S2 Part2" style, it just isn't possible to edit into 24 mins (the format, it's actually 23min 40s) episodes a proper trimmed version of the arcs, by a long shot.
Most of what is trimmable is basically good old padding to fill the total runtime if anything.
They could have used those to confirm unreliable perspective earlier in Oniakashi-hen (when they should have imo, not as late as they did in Tatariakashi, even because it's a single explicit point of reference) or to give us more Teppei goodness in Tatariakashi.

ADDENDUM:
Just food for thought on how would I personally improve the flow and expand the content episodically ("24min" format).
- EP1 in Oniakashi could end slightly padded at 21:17 of this edit, EP2 could end at 45:21 using the festival with the ED, EP3 would then have more than enough time (around 6min 41s excluding OP/ED, 3:41 including them) to expand on the aftermath properly. Nowhere nearly as good cliffhangers as the anime had, but still.
- Watadamashi cannot be improved, it's padded to a minimum.
- Tatariakashi is impossible to cut in a way that doesn't leave us by the end with extra minutes that can't be spent in anything else from that arc, other than maybe including the full dance, some Eua and Witchtoko moment and/or recapping at full Rena's conversation with K1 for whatever reason.
EP1 in Tatariakashi could end with some baseball padding at 21:34 of this edit, EP2 could end at 40:42 with extra padding not already in the anime, EP3 with a little padding at 1:00:57, EP4 trimming 20 seconds from little portions and messing just a little bit could end at 1:22:06, and finally, EP5 we would have 7min 42s extra (excluding OP/ED) to use somehow, and unlike Oniakashi, none of which could really be put to good use as far as Sotsu thus far is concerned).
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Sven Viking



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1039
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:39 am Reply with quote
Not sure what the best way of handling it would be, but the end result definitely feels different from the original Higurashi where even during the answer arcs your mind tended to be at work trying to fit the various pieces together, some of which remained ambiguous (perhaps too much so in the anime). There’ve been some great scenes in SOTSU and a few nice twists imho, but it does feel like most of my time in many episodes has been spent just waiting to see what I already know will happen.

Easier said than done but maybe an additional hidden plot thread could have been useful, so they’d have something else to spend some time on rather than drawing out the more obvious scenes?
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2293
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:38 pm Reply with quote
Been spendin' some time catching up on Gou and Sotsu over the past month. Has been fun to follow the ANN threads as I worked through the backlog, although I think I share a lot of folks' disappointments, and I'm not at all confident that there is a way to write an ending to Sotsu that feels thematically right (or even sympathetic, really, outside of dissatisfying new magical rules being introduced to suddenly wash away most of the guilt) for Satoko. I would've preferred to keep her motivations more grounded, with no split-personality fantasy doppleganger; for the St. Lucia's arc to be quite a bit more brutal for her, to make her heel turn to supervillain more understandable; and, lastly, for her to show more regret and ambivalence, and less one-dimensional villainy.

I suppose that's mostly re-treading things other people have said already, though -- just fresh for me because I'm only just now catching up. Does anyone know if there's somewhere to legally watch the Umineko anime these days? I vaguely remember trying to watch it almost a decade ago now, having been hungry for more Higurashi content at the time (had just finished some of the other Higurashi series), but giving up the moment I realized it didn't seem to be part of what I thought of as the "main" canon/continuity. Guess that excuse is out the window now with the connection between the two series pretty explicit now, heh.
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Sven Viking



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1039
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:46 pm Reply with quote
With GOU/SOTSU leading into Umineko there’s a fair possibility they’re hoping to remake Umineko afterwards since the existing anime had some fairly serious problems (as well as not ending).
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MagicPolly



Joined: 26 Nov 2020
Posts: 1576
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:56 pm Reply with quote
I'm 3 episodes behind on Sotsu and I'm honestly really dreading catching up. I had a bit of hope when the witch stuff was finally brought up but then it went back into retreading territory. I was really hoping that ending Tatariakashi would move the plot forward but this review does not inspire any sort of confidence.
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KitKat1721



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 953
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:40 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
Does anyone know if there's somewhere to legally watch the Umineko anime these days?

The DVDs have been OOP for years and no one's picked it up for streaming. I'd say unfortunately but to be honest, its really just not worth your time. Even if you don't want to read the VN currently, its not just bad on a "oh this really pales in comparison to the source material," but just bad on its own merit. From the dull, flat color work that's more reminiscent of early digi-paint series + lackluster animation/character designs, to never getting a chance to learn or care about any characters before things start flying off the rails, to how poorly its directed [vague spoilers but tagged anyway]spoiler[(half the horrific moments look more comedic than anything and I will never be able to wipe from my brain the scene of a character mourning his dead mother by what looks like motor-boating her chest)]. It wouldn't even qualify for a "so bad its good" watch, and really the only positives would be the casting choices (almost all of whom reprised for the 2010 edition of the game) and the ED song for those 2010 memes.

While on the subject though, because god knows there's not much to talk about regarding this week's episode (RIP Lynzee), I know people have been predicting an new adaptation to come after this but I can't really envision a good anime adaptation of Umineko even under the best circumstances... which I wouldn't consider Passione to be anyway. [Again, vague spoilers]spoiler[Its a lot of just stationary talking for the joy of discussion, debate, and mystery solving. Events happen, people talk about what just happened (plus other topics) to an extensive degree, repeat. Not to mention how it uses unreliable narrator and other tools meant to either fool you about what's really happening or give you little hints and clues even during rather mundane scenes. And most of it is completely necessary.] There are visual novels out there that I think could make for a good anime adaptations with a solid team, but Umineko always seemed like one of the hardest to make as both as a faithful adaptation that's true to the heart and purpose of the story and a show that's actually engaging for anime viewers/new audiences.
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Dayraven



Joined: 21 Jul 2021
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:10 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I'm 3 episodes behind on Sotsu and I'm honestly really dreading catching up.

Being forewarned about the recap-heaviness might help? It did for me, this week.

Still hoping this isn’t ending entirely in three episodes’ time and that this is more of an overextended middle — with probably one more episode before we get back to the cliffhanger, hard to see how it wouldn’t feel anticlimactic to finish things off so soon.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2293
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:47 pm Reply with quote
A specific plot point from the latest episode kind of bothers me: spoiler[Is there any plausible in-universe reason Satoko would leave the broken shard of the looper-killing blade in the statue? I guess the way the seen is portrayed, we're supposed to believe she didn't notice that a large chunk of it popped off. But, even leaving aside that, visually, it seemed really hard to miss -- she, specifically, is looping over this action over and over again, right? Surely at some point in her centuries of repeatedly grabbing the same magic sword from the same dusty statue she'd notice the missing blade piece and not leave it around for Rika to pick up. Maybe they're going to provide some kind of looper mechanic that explains why this act surrounding the magic sword only happened to Satoko exactly once, or something?]

KitKat: hm, I guess that's good feedback, thanks. It's been so long since I tried to watch it, now, that I can't remember if I gave up only because it wasn't clearly linked to the WTC series I had seen, or if it was also because it was just terrible. If the latter, then maybe it wouldn't help much even if I found a DVD copy or something of it now, heh.

Maybe I should pick up the VN. I don't normally play VNs, so not sure how much I'd enjoy it, but have been looking for Japanese-language games to try to practice my reading on, and a VN's probably a natural thing to attempt..
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Kelohmello



Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:09 pm Reply with quote
I think I felt myself physically hit my limit on this show at this episode. Which is ironic, because there's so little time left that the rest of it has to be on new content or else the story can't manage to wrap up at all. So I have to keep watching. But the fact that I sat through an entire season of recap absolutely has soured me on both Gou and Sotsu. This is When They Cry at its absolute worst if you ask me.
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SparkTFS



Joined: 16 Feb 2021
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:48 pm Reply with quote
Those last episodes were really pretty dull. Answer arcs worked on the previous anime because spoiler[the main threat was hidden and we still knew very little about the characters. Also, we saw things that helped us understand more about the overarching story]. But in Sotsu, spoiler[the main threat is already known since the question arcs in Gou], so there's no reason for the answer arcs to be so long.

The only justifiable reason would be if we got more information about how Satoko did it (in the arcs that it wasn't that much developed) and more information about Eua and the witch stuff as well. As things stand right now, the anime (Sotsu) is pretty dull. After the comically big previous arc, I was hoping to at least get more information about how Satoko injected those secondary characters and how they captured Rika, that at least
would have been a good payoff for all that wait.

But instead, after the first one of the five last worlds, we didn't even get to see how Satoko made them paranoid or when she injected them. All we get were some extra scenes of she watching and waiting for Rika to die before killing herself - as if THAT would be a surprise at this point. Also, for the queen of traps (I hope that doesn't sound weird), Satoko has been pretty uncreative in her ways of luring and killing people. It's always the
same good'ol gun and it's also boring at this point.

I love Higurashi since when I started watching the original anime, and saw all it's previous seasons before starting the new ones. But even for something I love, there's just so much boredom and letdowns I can put up with before losing hype. Sotsu has been this way for a long time, and all that I wanted was seeing the continuation of that confrontation between Rika and Satoko in the classroom.

I still plan to finish the anime, but I'm probably going to wait until the last episodes pile up before binge-watching all of them. I'm tired of getting excited every week for new episodes that only contain the same scenes from Gou, with some 1-2 minutes worth of new content, and mostly no answer to anything at all. Sorry if it looks like a rant - because it kind of is. I still love the series tho, and can't wait to see what happens on the final episodes!
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 835
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:08 pm Reply with quote
I know Ryukishi loves to be SUPER repetitive and long-winded in his storytelling, but someone really ought to have reigned him in somewhere ...

I've been so excited about Gou and Sotsu, but even I feel the last few episodes have been super frustrating. Really hoping that some massive payoff is coming.


I guess they really want us to FEEL THE SUFFERING OF LOOPING.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 665
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:58 pm Reply with quote
I guess at the end of the day my problem is I don't see a payoff. Aside from Rika and Satoko becoming the witches we see in Umineko, which to me is not sufficient payoff for this series, this has all seemed like a massive waste of time. There's no "redemption" for Satoko coming; there's no polishing that turd. You'd have to make a pretty ridiculous twist from left field to make Rika out to be a hidden villain. Adding some other "greater" foe would be ludicrously repetitive. Other than the spectacle of a car crash at 200 mph, I don't see what we the audience are supposed to be getting out of this season.
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Dayraven



Joined: 21 Jul 2021
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:07 am Reply with quote
NeverConvex,
spoiler[Satoko hasn’t been grabbing the sword for centuries. She finds out about it around the same time that Rika makes her five-more-loops suicide countdown, so she’s only done it five times max. Makes missing the shard every time a bit more credible, at least.]
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