×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Digimon Tamers 20th Anniversary Stage Show Features 'Cancel Culture' Villain


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 262
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:53 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
So freedom of speech only applies when it's pro alt right or pro conspiracy theories?


How are you getting that from my post? I'm saying doing something illegal is not the same thing as doing something an individual might find morally wrong but is otherwise perfectly legal. Nothing Chiaki Konaka did was illegal, why would he be comparable to someone like Megumi Igarashi or any other artist who broke actual laws and were punished for doing so. I'm simply saying "freedom of expression" isn't going to protect you when you break the law. These are non-partisan issues and have nothing to do with right vs left.

ANN_Lynzee wrote:
That's also a gross simplification (and inaccurate description) of what happened. I covered that story when it happened. Still amazing to see the same folks who talk about censorship and "woke" politics ruining their porn turn around and say it's totally cool to fine and jail woman for freely distributing 3D printer data of a vagina.


I don't like those laws either and I'd love for porn to be uncensored personally, but if people are going to compare breaking that law to reading a blog or saying political correctness is bad then that's absurd. Is this really about Igarashi being arrested while Konaka wasn't? What crime should Konaka be charged with, exactly?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 647
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:00 pm Reply with quote
Rentwo wrote:
Konaka's response seems reasonable and is about what I expected. It does seem like westerners made a mountain out of a molehill in the end. It's an interesting comment on it being an event aimed for Japanese audiences and that we only saw it due to illegal piracy so he should not be responsible for dealing with western perspectives or feelings on Japanese issues.

It only reads that way if you once again completely ignore the reality and want to believe in some idea of western boogeymaning. Seeing how the criticism of it (from both inside and outside Japan) was that he's gone down a rabbit hole of those beliefs this response is simply continuing that trend of pretending that the only people who care are the same people he decried in the weirdly placed rant. From his response

"When the pandemic started, I stopped opening Twitter for about a year.
I also stopped watching CNN/US, which I had subscribed to on cable to see what was really going on.
And I've been reading what independent alternative journalists are gathering from open sources, referring to links as I go.
In my personal opinion, COVID-19 is of course real, even if SARS-CoV-2 has not been isolated and segregated.
In 2020, the number of applicants in the total population of Japan is lower than in 2019.

In 2021, the phase has changed (and the vaccine supply has started).
I was frustrated by the exclusion of alternative journalists from the major platforms, and by the fact that the counter perspective was hidden.

I think that my feelings were reflected in Yamaki's strong words.

However, the situation had changed between the time I wrote the scenario in early spring and August 1.
This is not so much about Japan as it is about the new difficulties that countries around the world are facing.
So, it was no longer timely to send out messages to the rest of the world.

There were people who accused me of having a particular label.
I've never expressed any particular political beliefs.
There was no anime that brought more diversity to that era than "Digimon Tamers".
So I was sad, but don't worry.
As I mentioned earlier, my plan "2020" has already been cancelled."

Konaka is treating the criticism as an attempt to get a future project cancelled. Which it isn't. It's a reaction to his endorsing harmful conspiracy theories. Which he even acknowledges he still holds in this portion of the response. He's also misrepresenting by saying that people are upset he's a COVID denialist when he's not so all their objections must be false. When the reality of the issue isn't that he strictly denies COVID (though again even in his response he claims it hasn't been isolated, which it has, and is another anti vaccine talking point), but that he follows and promotes conspiracies that claim it's a Chinese Bioweapon, the only way to stop it is to consume bleach, avoid vaccines, and all plethora of other harmful misinformation. As for his claim that he has no label or never expressed political beliefs I addressed that in a previous post. It doesn't matter what he claims when his actions clearly show his beliefs. Either he's as wilfully obtuse in those statements as the COVID ones above, or he's convinced himself that holding such views are "non-political" which is obviously false. This entire statement is responding to a reality that didn't happen in order to continue peddling the false reality he believes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lightturner



Joined: 07 Aug 2021
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Sheleigha wrote:
It looks like Konaka made his response (with some commentary from WtW on it:

https://withthewill.net/threads/konaka-comments-on-tamers-2021-content.26115/


I support you Konaka-san. I am sorry you were harassed Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4820
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:46 pm Reply with quote
Horsefellow wrote:


How are you getting that from my post? I'm saying doing something illegal is not the same thing as doing something an individual might find morally wrong but is otherwise perfectly legal. Nothing Chiaki Konaka did was illegal, why would he be comparable to someone like Megumi Igarashi or any other artist who broke actual laws and were punished for doing so. I'm simply saying "freedom of expression" isn't going to protect you when you break the law. These are non-partisan issues and have nothing to do with right vs left.

Literally nobody has said what Konaka has should be illegal or that he should be charged with a crime. The point is that Japan isn't this libertarian radical free expression utopia where you can just say whatever you want and not face any societal repressions whatsoever. And it's a gross stereotyping of all Japanese people to claim that all Japanese people have the same exact views on "political correctness" or that everyone in Japan thinks exactly like Konaka. Especially after a week where the GITS Arise composer stepped down from the Olympics after outcry from within Japan too. It's also a double standard to try and argue all freedom of expression should be made without societal consequences or criticism or it's somehow an attack on their free speech while arguing in a case where somebody's freedom of expression was actually is suppressed was justifiable because the law says it's ok to suppress it. And of course it happens to be when a woman wants to express herself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. slicer



Joined: 07 Aug 2014
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:53 pm Reply with quote
Watanabefan wrote:
Just a few months ago I was lamenting Tamers not getting any sort of official follow-up like Adventure.

Now I'm realizing that was probably a dodged bullet.

Unless he someone negotiated complete creative control over hypothetical Tamers TV or film followup his over the top views would have been held in check.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ming Yi



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:49 pm Reply with quote
Rentwo wrote:
he should not be responsible for dealing with western perspectives or feelings on Japanese issues.


I'm confused? Because I've heard arguments that "political correctness" is a Western issue... so which is it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juaifan



Joined: 20 Mar 2021
Posts: 109
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:54 am Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
The point is that Japan isn't this libertarian radical free expression utopia where you can just say whatever you want and not face any societal repressions whatsoever.


You are correct in principle but Japan and America have very different values. A lot of the things English speaking fandoms try to cancel Japanese artists over are not seen as controversial in Japan which is why it comes off as if Japan has no social consequences. Many American celebrities promote and brag about doing drug which but in Japan even being suspected of doing that would be absolutely career destroying. Conversely, some of the biggest Japanese artists out there can openly hold biggoted views that would be considered career destroying in America with no real pushback or social consequence. Even if Mr. Konaka is guilty of promote far right views the right wing have been in power in Japan for decades to the point the Japan is often referred to as a one-party country so why would there be any issue with that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Replica_Rabbit



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 354
Location: Portland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:26 pm Reply with quote
It's so frustrating for people to fall into the rabbit hole, I understand it is easy to believe that there a puppet master that causes everything bad to happen can feel nice. But it will lead you to dark places and in the long run, it will hurt more people than help.
I think we need to educate people on how to spot nonsense on the internet since I am really tired of seeing people just falling into the abyss.
Anyway, I am glad he apologized but the damage has been done. Also, can we stop calling people who fall into the abyss bad? They are not bad, they are just wrong and probably need help. The bad people are the ones who push this nonsense, just to make a quick buck
Edit: Thank you, @Thatguy3331. My phone autocorrect me and I didn't notice


Last edited by Replica_Rabbit on Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thatguy3331



Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 1790
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Replica_Rabbit wrote:
It's so frustrating for people to fall into the rabbit hole, I understand it is easy to believe that there a puppet master that causes everything bad to happen can feel nice. But it will lead you to dark places and in the long run, it will hurt more people than help.
I think we need to educate people on how to spout nonsense on the internet since I am really tired of seeing people just falling into the abyss.
Anyway, I am glad he apologized but the damage has been done. Also, can we stop calling people who fall into the abyss bad? They are not bad, they are just wrong and probably need help. The bad people are the ones who push this nonsense, just to make a quick buck


minor, but I think you mean spot instead of spout.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dm
Subscriber



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 1358
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:29 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
Shit...I've loved much of Konaka's work over many years. It's disheartening to learn that he's completely off the deep end.


Konaka's always been fruitcake-adjacent. Yoshitoshi Abe and Yasayuki Ueda modeled UFO-nut Chiaki in NieA_7 on Konaka.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vanadise



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 493
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:55 pm Reply with quote
> Complains about "Cancel Culture"
> "I will delete any comments that accuse me of being a bad person."

Well, that's disappointing, but I dunno what else I expected. At least this isn't the worst revelation that's ever come out about the writer behind a beloved classic series...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Animeking1108



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:57 pm Reply with quote
When did Digimon turn into South Park?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BonusStage



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:07 pm Reply with quote
Animeking1108 wrote:
When did Digimon turn into South Park?


Around 1999 when they introduced FuhrurAgumon. Digimon's been doing this for a long, long time.



I'm surprised Konaka gave these people the time of day since most creators usually don't care what overseas fans think. But I guess he genuinely dislikes discourse and wanted to say something on record. I admire his integrity. His comment about not supporting everything people he follows says is important to me. I've seen so many people eat their own at the slightest hint of stepping out of line and failing some kind of ideological purity test. Like, these are probably the kind of people who routinely check who you follow on social media then confront you and tell you to unfollow the people they dislike. Reminds me when people got upset Yoko Taro follows a lot of "alt right" anime and video game YouTubers, or how Square Enix embraced Asmongold with open arms. Do people really only surround themselves with people they 100% agree on everything with? That sounds exhausting Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Replica_Rabbit



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 354
Location: Portland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:11 pm Reply with quote
BonusStage wrote:
Animeking1108 wrote:
When did Digimon turn into South Park?


Around 1999 when they introduced FuhrurAgumon. Digimon's been doing this for a long, long time.



I'm surprised Konaka gave these people the time of day since most creators usually don't care what overseas fans think. But I guess he genuinely dislikes discourse and wanted to say something on record. I admire his integrity. His comment about not supporting everything people he follows says is important to me. I've seen so many people eat their own at the slightest hint of stepping out of line and failing some kind of ideological purity test. Like, these are probably the kind of people who routinely check who you follow on social media then confront you and tell you to unfollow the people they dislike. Reminds me when people got upset Yoko Taro follows a lot of "alt right" anime and video game YouTubers, or how Square Enix embraced Asmongold with open arms. Do people really only surround themselves with people they 100% agree on everything with? That sounds exhausting Sad

No, I have friends who are conservative who I don't agree with are still friends with them. It exhausting when people confuse nonsense with opinions that should be respected. Anyway, I don't really care about Yoko Taro or Asmongold thing. This is on a different level if Yoko Taro make a video game about those Youtubers then I would have a problem
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bleachj0j



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 923
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:38 pm Reply with quote
Some people have to realize that Japan doesn't exist in it's own cultural bubble. Konaka himself is admittedly influence by American culture wars. It's people projecting their world view on the entire country that it's a paradise of people who hate Shonen Jump Weekly's and political correctness. So I'm not sure why to some he's immune to takes on things he's said by American fans. Anyway, Konka basically took the most non-evasive approach to this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 9 of 11

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group