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EP. REVIEW: 86 Season 2


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saber721



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:45 pm Reply with quote
It is unfortunate that the production delays have caused problems. Personally, I think this series could have been a contender for anime of the year if it had not been for the production delays. As a reader of the LN’s, I have felt this series has done an amazing job not just adapting, but elevating the source material, especially the first cour. I do hope that this series gets a second season, because I think this series deserves it. But I hope that if it does, it does not have the same production issues as this season.

And I hope you non-LN readers watch the last two episodes when they finally air, as I think they will be worth the wait.
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DarkJak2050



Joined: 11 Apr 2021
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:29 pm Reply with quote
saber721 wrote:
It is unfortunate that the production delays have caused problems. Personally, I think this series could have been a contender for anime of the year if it had not been for the production delays. As a reader of the LN’s, I have felt this series has done an amazing job not just adapting, but elevating the source material, especially the first cour. I do hope that this series gets a second season, because I think this series deserves it. But I hope that if it does, it does not have the same production issues as this season.


I've said it once, I'll say it again;

Aniplex is to blame for the production issues that resulted in the delays. Aniplex should've gave A-1 6 months in-between halves instead of 3. That would've gave A-1 adequate time to properly get things done in a timely manner & give them some leeway in case of production issues.

Look at what Egg Firm did with Jobless Reincarnation. They foresaw what they were going to cover and gave 6 months in-between halves and now look at it; those 6 months are paying off for Jobless Reincarnation.

But no, Aniplex just had to stick with 3 months and since the middle of November, we've been seeing the repercussions of that decision.

If 86 does get another season, Aniplex better give adequate time so something like this won't happen again.

dm wrote:
Some deus seemed to pop out of the machina there at the end of the battle, with a sudden, mysterious, shelling. Also, wasn't Shin was hearing something over his earpiece? That sounded like Lena's voice to me (though it could have been Kurena or Anju, I suppose).


spoiler[Going by what has happened in the past, that "mysterious shelling" was probably Lena's doing. The voice going through Shin's earpiece (which is based on San Magnolia's PARA-Raid) and if you remembered the time Lena used the Artillery against the Legion & Rei in Ep. 9, some of the shells fired on Kiriya were the same kind.

Those shells couldn't of been from Kurena or Anju because they came from the opposite direction of their last known positions. Kurena couldn't of fired those shells because she uses different rounds. And even if she had the range to fire on Kiriya, she wasn't going to do anything significant to help Shin because she lacked the proper ammunition. Anju couldn't help at all because she was handling some Legions after being shot off from the cliffside and was further out of range than Kurena.

Piecing all of those together, the "mysterious shelling" has to be Lena's doing.]


(That's just a thought out guess, but I marked it as possible spoilers because people tend to mistaken a thought out guess for a spoiler.)
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Key
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:58 am Reply with quote
^
All I'll say about that is this: notice where the camera was focused in the scene where Shin hears the static-riddled voice right before the incendiary rockets fall. (This around the 15:16 mark in episode 21.) Even though Shin hears the static through his communication device, and glances that way at first, he then looks over towards his right ear - exactly where the Republic Para-RAID used to be fixed. This series doesn't idly drop details like that, so the intended meaning seems obvious.
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Picky33



Joined: 09 Jul 2021
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:26 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
^
All I'll say about that is this: notice where the camera was focused in the scene where Shin hears the static-riddled voice right before the incendiary rockets fall. (This around the 15:16 mark in episode 21.) Even though Shin hears the static through his communication device, and glances that way at first, he then looks over towards his right ear - exactly where the Republic Para-RAID used to be fixed. This series doesn't idly drop details like that, so the intended meaning seems obvious.


I feel like it was implied thats whats going on. I guess we'll find out in March.

Are we going to keep this thread open till then?
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:19 pm Reply with quote
Welp... now we wait until March...

Show has been fantastic! So I don't mind. The visuals and direction are on point!
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Kiskaloo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:16 pm Reply with quote
Recap episode dropped this week (21.5) so hopefully 22 and 23 are on the way.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:35 pm Reply with quote
The Shin and Lena reunion scene wasn't exactly how I pictured it from the novels...but it was actually even better and more than worth the 2-seasons worth of wait and the unexpected hiatus.

Firstly the strong set up with diving even deeper into Shin's deteriorating mental state after Kiriya pointedly declares he's just as dead inside as Kiriya's robot Legion brain which leads Shin to confront all the emotional trauma and grief that he's stored inside of himself at this point, all the people he's lost, what happened with his brother, and his own self-hate. All that talk about the Eighty-Six's "pride" didn't matter in the end because it didn't make him feel fulfilled or like he was ever really alive. It gets to a point where he's practically begging a random Legion unit to finally finish him off.

But then...in comes Lena, stepping over the black bars surrounding both Shin's head and literally the screen and warding off all the Legion butterflies to reveal the lycoris that initially heralded their parting like a true Goddess or Queen coming to retrieve her knight. It's just such a beautiful and well-directed shot with amazing cinematography. Selfishly I want Toshimasa Ishii to just keep directing 86 as a complete adaption but I can't wait to see what he does next.

And Just the moment where you don't even initially hear Lena's voice, like Shin isn't, but how he immediately recognizes it's her when he hears her voice through Para-RAID before she properly says her name and you see the moment of realization...it was so perfect. And how he cuts off the Para-RAID so she doesn't realize it's him, which is such a boy thing to do.

Voices of the Chord was such a perfect accompaniment to this scene. If "Answer" is Shin and Lena's battle theme, I believe the former is their relationship theme.

Also the subs I used kept using "they" when Lena was talking about what kept her alive and what was inspiring her to keep fighting but I think at some point it became more directly about Shin. I'm pretty sure I heard her say "Kare" at some point which I think meant it was supposed to be her referring specifically to him? In the light novels she straight up says "he," especially for the final message, which makes it all the more poignant. I mean, I guess sub-wise you could explain it that she was just obliquely and collectively referring to the Eighty-Six and Shin as "they" but "they" was still mostly Shin, but it felt a little off. I wonder how the dub will handle it.

Massive props to both Shoya Chiba and Ikumi Hasegawa in this episode. With Chiba you really feel all the grief and pain Shin's been keeping bottling up to the point where it's a struggle to keep living but then you feel the genuine happiness and joy in his voice and tears when he finally cries at finding Lena again and having her validate his entire existence and for living up to this point. And with Hasegawa she plays Lena in such a way now that you can see how far she's come from season 1 and how much more stronger and experienced she is...but she's still the kind of girl who will put her faith in one, lone, soldier she doesn't even realize she knows and ends up giving said soldier the emotional support they so desperately needed without even knowing it. Also, that smile and wave at the end was everything. I can't wait to hear how Billy Kametz and Suzie Yeung handle it.

I'm glad Kiriya got to die as himself and push Frederica away, saving his princess to the very end.

Ernst still in the running for best anime dad of the season (is there any competition in this season...?), although Frederica is definitely in trouble.

Nothing quite like having a beautiful and inspirational young girl who deserves better than the battlefield to give you a new lease on life and something to strive towards. As Frederica said, Shin's such a boy.

I feel like Grethe wanted payback for Shin's outburst towards her and that's partially why she leaked the entire romantic spiel between him and Lena to the rest of the squad. I like how Kurena is just happy Lena survived, which also shows how far their relationship has come.

It's probably too much to hope for another season/sequel announcement by the time of the finale, but I can't wait to see how they close things out.
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saber721



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:45 pm Reply with quote
It's been awhile since I've been here, but it's nice to be back.

I've thought this the entire time I've watched this series, but I've always felt that 86 is a shining example of how you SHOULD adapt a light novel. And this episode, this episode is prime example of that. I have waited for YEARS, ever since I read the scene in LN vol. 3, to see Lena and Shin's reunion in animated form. And I don't think I've ever been more blown away watching an anime adaptation then I was watching that scene. I really, REALLY do hope 86 gets a second season, because I think this story deserves it. (Lets just hope that if it does, A1 gets the time they need this time to do it right.)
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:22 pm Reply with quote
Just...wow. I've nothing to add to the conversation, just collecting my jaw from the ground.
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Key
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Wholly agree with the praises that Callum and others have directed towards the episode; I think I've now watched it four or five times, and the impact is still there. To what's already been said, I'll also point out the episode's wonderful attention to little details, like the way the fragment of Rei's Legion fell away right as the music peaked and Lena said Shin should be more proud of surviving; it was a wonderful bit of symbolism about him finally moving on. Also, the way Cyclops reacted as Lena handed over her gun to the arriving Giad forces was a great, more light-hearted touch. (Though honestly, I'm not sure what she expected Lena to do under the circumstances.) In all, this was a fantastic effort independent of the source material, and a highly-satisfying adaptation with the source material figured in, and I, too, look forward to future projects by the episode director.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:38 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Wholly agree with the praises that Callum and others have directed towards the episode; I think I've now watched it four or five times, and the impact is still there. To what's already been said, I'll also point out the episode's wonderful attention to little details, like the way the fragment of Rei's Legion fell away right as the music peaked and Lena said Shin should be more proud of surviving; it was a wonderful bit of symbolism about him finally moving on. Also, the way Cyclops reacted as Lena handed over her gun to the arriving Giad forces was a great, more light-hearted touch. (Though honestly, I'm not sure what she expected Lena to do under the circumstances.) In all, this was a fantastic effort independent of the source material, and a highly-satisfying adaptation with the source material figured in, and I, too, look forward to future projects by the episode director.

Shiden made that scene so much funnier.
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saber721



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:18 pm Reply with quote
MFrontier wrote:
Key wrote:
Wholly agree with the praises that Callum and others have directed towards the episode; I think I've now watched it four or five times, and the impact is still there. To what's already been said, I'll also point out the episode's wonderful attention to little details, like the way the fragment of Rei's Legion fell away right as the music peaked and Lena said Shin should be more proud of surviving; it was a wonderful bit of symbolism about him finally moving on. Also, the way Cyclops reacted as Lena handed over her gun to the arriving Giad forces was a great, more light-hearted touch. (Though honestly, I'm not sure what she expected Lena to do under the circumstances.) In all, this was a fantastic effort independent of the source material, and a highly-satisfying adaptation with the source material figured in, and I, too, look forward to future projects by the episode director.

Shiden made that scene so much funnier.


I can picture the dialogue in my head:

Richard: "Before you board, Captain, I'd like for you to hand over your rifle."

Cyclops: "No way, your Majesty! Don't you dare hand that rifle over! We have no way of knowing if these guys are even-"

Lena: "Here you go" *Hands over rifle*

Cyclops: "Ugh, this girl"
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Stretch2424



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:48 am Reply with quote
If asked to explain Shin's psychological problems, I would guess that he has a sort of survivor's guilt because, being as awesome a mecha pilot as he is, he has managed to come back alive time after time while his comrades have not. But that's my guess, not something which is made clear in this episode or 86 as a whole. Since his mental state is as ill-defined as it is, it was hard to feel sorry for him. He is, after all, the best mecha pilot the world has ever known. You could almost say that his skill as a pilot is his personality. Maybe he has never really developed enough of a personality for us to make sense of his issues (perhaps the light novels did a better job of this). I found myself thinking 'Please don't let this entire episode, which I have waited so long for, be taken up by this inscrutable stuff'. Fortunately he awakens before too long. He is almost done in by one last Legion mecha (was that Kiri's mind still controlling it?), How the F---- did Lena show up here? I can only surmise that she and the reformed Spearhead unit blasted their way out of doomed San Magnolia, and by a fantastic coincidence showed up at just the right place and the right time to save Shin. Even more aggravating was the inexplicable decision by Shin to hide his identity, and the fact that he and his four comrades are still alive, from Lena. He offers some sort explanation for his choice but it made no sense whatsoever. I guess the author just wanted to save their reuniting for later. Still, it was sort of cathartic to see all the characters reunite after pulling off this seemingly hopeless mission, even though I never had any doubt that they would. It seems that destroying Morpho has completely changed the tide of the war, and from now on Giad and its allies will be on the offensive, even attempting to liberate San Magnolia.

BTW, I have not read the light novels. My review is based entirely on the anime.
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:18 am Reply with quote
I rather disagree- I think the show has been pretty clear about Shin's issues. It hasn't spelled it out with some therapist character proffering a diagnosis, but that's a bit more hamfisted than necessary imo. He's got the survivor's guilt, abandonment issues, internalized self hatred, and no real goal to work toward, so he's just been wallowing in that fairly toxic stew. The show has been very good at showing all of this, without needing to tell us point-blank, which I've greatly appreciated.

While I'll not try to explain Lena's convenient arrival, his decision not to reveal himself makes a lot of sense, even if its pretty objectively dumb. He's an emotionally immature brat in a fair number of ways, so he doesn't likely fully understand why, but she is/was important to him- this has been shown through the season. If she says she's "trying to reach where he is" (I forget the exact phrasing) then he wants to present a better image for her when she gets there- not the pathetic, self defeating, soldier she proffered words to. Its objectively dumb, but as someone who was once a teenage boy with a crush, trying to control your image so they'll like you better is definitely a behavior that checks out.

I've not read the novels either, mind. This was all picked from a show that wanted to tell you very little about the characters, and show you a lot.
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Stretch2424



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:28 am Reply with quote
We are repeatedly told that Shin has 'lost the will to live'--and then he goes out and totally kicks ass.

?
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