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xxmsxx
Joined: 06 Sep 2017
Posts: 564
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 Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:50 am
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| Matros wrote: |
| dreams-c wrote: | | its just an armpiece from a fictional story with fictional countries and fictional characters.... |
Wear it in public, especially in Europe, then we'll see how successful your argument will be. |
IKR. Even before opening the comments, I knew someone would bring up the "fictional" argument. But yeah, at this point I don't expect people to have what I used to think as common sense or common understanding of history anymore 
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babajones
Joined: 13 Sep 2021
Posts: 14
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:50 am
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| RockSplash wrote: |
| FunkyDude88 wrote: | | Meanwhile Bandai sells everything from patches to shirts with the Zeon flag that literally have "Sieg Zeon!" written on them. They also currently have pre-orders up for Zeon Iron Cross pins. Can literally find it all over Amazon Japan.
Guess Kodansha got cold feet. |
I will defend that one. Yes, Zeon originally was heavily based off of Nazi Germany, but the message of Gundam is that neither side is good. Also, the Zeon symbol is not an Iron Cross, merely a symbol. This one the other hand is DIRECTLY recreating an atrocity. This is not ok. |
Why it is not ok ?? How do you decide if something is ok or not ok anyway ??
Nobody will be harmed if you have fictional story showing people being oppressed and have to wear Armband... It is fictional story that does not have any actual impact on anyone.
[Removed insult. Errinundra.]
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Angel M Cazares
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 5424
Location: Iscandar
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:52 am
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| Top Gun wrote: | | "Hey here's a great idea, let's take this way too on-the-nose analogy for Jewish ghettos in Nazi Germany and sell merch based on it! That isn't the most tone-deaf thing anyone's ever pulled, no sir!" |
This
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18185
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:54 am
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| babajones wrote: | | This is stupid...Armbands does not harm anyone..... The anime already have characters with Armbands but somehow if people cosplay these character with Armbands then it symbol of oppression ?? Really ?? |
Context matters. When the armbands are specifically associated with a persecuted group (in the sense that the persecuted group is forced to wear them) then yes, they're a blatant symbol of oppression.
EDIT: To be clear, using them in the story isn't necessarily a problem, since they're used (however crudely) to make a story point. However, making money off of selling something like that is ugly.
Last edited by Key on Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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RockSplash
Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Posts: 495
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:54 am
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| babajones wrote: |
| RockSplash wrote: |
| FunkyDude88 wrote: | | Meanwhile Bandai sells everything from patches to shirts with the Zeon flag that literally have "Sieg Zeon!" written on them. They also currently have pre-orders up for Zeon Iron Cross pins. Can literally find it all over Amazon Japan.
Guess Kodansha got cold feet. |
I will defend that one. Yes, Zeon originally was heavily based off of Nazi Germany, but the message of Gundam is that neither side is good. Also, the Zeon symbol is not an Iron Cross, merely a symbol. This one the other hand is DIRECTLY recreating an atrocity. This is not ok. |
Why it is not ok ?? How do you decide if something is ok or not ok anyway ??
Nobody will be harmed if you have fictional story showing people being oppressed and have to wear Armband... It is fictional story that does not have any actual impact on anyone |
It is heavily based on real events. The Zeon stuff is not using actual Nazi armbands. The zeon stuff is also much older, and have been doing this since the 80s. In comparison, AOT is doing this in a much more politically senstive climate. It is very tone deaf, and it is basically making money off the idea of recreating a tragedy. Compared to the Zeon flag based off of a nazi flag, that doesn't directly recreate a marginalized population. It just isn't ethical.
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Animeking1108
Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:57 am
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Why get rid of it? It'll go great with my Narutaru chemistry set and my talking Nina Tucker Chimera plushie. /s
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RockSplash
Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Posts: 495
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:00 am
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| Animeking1108 wrote: | | Why get rid of it? It'll go great with my Narutaru chemistry set and my talking Nina Tucker Chimera plushie. /s |
I am sure that Bokurano got a model figure. Hell, they crossed over with SRW despite the themes of Giant robots not being cool.
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Ardis
Joined: 21 Jul 2019
Posts: 8
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:21 am
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| babajones wrote: | |
Why it is not ok ?? How do you decide if something is ok or not ok anyway ??
Nobody will be harmed if you have fictional story showing people being oppressed and have to wear Armband... It is fictional story that does not have any actual impact on anyone. |
Spoken like a true American lmao.
The point is not about the story having this kind of symbolism, it's about the fact that with this merch, they were trying to profit off a direct reference to a symbol of oppression, selling it as some kind of "quirky fashion accessory".
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Everlasting Coconut
Joined: 22 Jul 2019
Posts: 291
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:55 am
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| babajones wrote: | |
Nobody will be harmed if you have fictional story showing people being oppressed and have to wear Armband... It is fictional story that does not have any actual impact on anyone.... |
If fiction didn't have an impact on anyone, it wouldn't be a thing in the first place. That's the entire point of fiction, that it can affect and change reality.
Attack on Titan's depiction of fascist imagery was already pretty tasteless at times. This is just gross.
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Replica_Rabbit
Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 354
Location: Portland
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:08 pm
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| babajones wrote: | | This is stupid...Armbands does not harm anyone..... The anime already have characters with Armbands but somehow if people cosplay these character with Armbands then it symbol of oppression ?? Really ??
I remember Cruchyroll censoring Manji symbol in tokyo revenger because it look close to nazi symbol even though a lot of people in the video comments were complaining about censorship and not bothered by the symbol |
It was the Japanese licensors, not Crunchyroll. No one was crying over this, the company did it so they wouldn't get backlash (since it isn't a good look).
So glad, One Piece and Naruto were able to dodge this. Fun fact, Whitebeard's Pirtare flag had a Manji until Oda and his team realize it was problematic and change it.
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RealMTL
Joined: 09 Jun 2018
Posts: 178
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:20 pm
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| Mami-kouga wrote: | | Oh dear Lord, who thought this was a good idea? "gee whiz, you know what the kids would love? An in universe symbol of oppression of which is never framed in even a slightly positive or cool light by anyone in the story!" and that's not even getting into the obvious holocaust references. |
I would've loved to be at the business meeting when they decided to sell this lol. I like how Japan likes to go out there with it's products but then things like this slip through.
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StarfighterPegasus
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm
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I'm glad it got pulled, I don't follow AoT but looking at the article just sent off not red flags, but curtains big bulky curtains. It is going to be difficult to explain to someone what that Armband means and the moment you do explain it things will just get uncomfortable for the listener.
That Armband is just going to cause problems, plus AoT is already getting heat right now, it doesn't need anymore bad press.
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AngryMoM
Joined: 16 Sep 2015
Posts: 63
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:16 pm
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| babajones wrote: |
| RockSplash wrote: |
| FunkyDude88 wrote: | | Meanwhile Bandai sells everything from patches to shirts with the Zeon flag that literally have "Sieg Zeon!" written on them. They also currently have pre-orders up for Zeon Iron Cross pins. Can literally find it all over Amazon Japan.
Guess Kodansha got cold feet. |
I will defend that one. Yes, Zeon originally was heavily based off of Nazi Germany, but the message of Gundam is that neither side is good. Also, the Zeon symbol is not an Iron Cross, merely a symbol. This one the other hand is DIRECTLY recreating an atrocity. This is not ok. |
Why it is not ok ?? How do you decide if something is ok or not ok anyway ??
Nobody will be harmed if you have fictional story showing people being oppressed and have to wear Armband... It is fictional story that does not have any actual impact on anyone. |
It's a little something called class.
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Sinsekihokimchiansu
Joined: 02 Aug 2021
Posts: 159
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:28 pm
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Oh bad move there
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Rentwo
Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 184
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:22 pm
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| Replica_Rabbit wrote: | | Fun fact, Whitebeard's Pirtare flag had a Manji until Oda and his team realize it was problematic and change it. |
Correction: Oda did not want to change it but was forced to by Shueisha. Oda would later go on to reference actual Nazi imagery when creating the Germa Kingdom and their not-so-subble ᛋᛋ flag so it's unlikely he had any reservations about that stuff. He was basically censored by higher ups.
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