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NEWS: Attack on Titan Franchise Halts Sales of Eldian Armbands


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Pandsu



Joined: 16 Sep 2017
Posts: 186
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:41 am Reply with quote
Yeah I agree with you and I think another difference was that the pretzel banners were a very in-the-moment thing that was designed to turn heads and I don't think they actually sold these to consumers, so it was a very one-time thing that made the context more clear than it would be if, say, someone were to just walk around with them as a part of a fashion statement without any widely available explanation.

And yes, The Producers is very much making fun of Nazis and Nazi-fanatics who wished for the regime to come back. Among other things. It's a great movie.

But still, just like with this armband, not everyone who saw those real-life decorations was actually aware of what they were for and what the musical was about. So for those people it must have been, at the very least, incredibly confusing. And I do feel like for some actual survivors of that time it must've been kind of scary to run into a whole ass building being decorated like that.

But anyway, enough derailing the thread. I suppose I agree with the overall sentiment and kinda get why this one rubbed me the wrong way while some other, related, things might not.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13555
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:38 am Reply with quote
Given the context of the article and actual historical events, I side with those thinking it was a stupid idea to even allow such AoT merchandise.

[Removed troll comment. Errinundra.]
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RhinocerousTrilbies



Joined: 09 Dec 2019
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:51 am Reply with quote
Frankly, I’m not bothered by the cancellation of the armbands. If people are that desperate to wear it, they’ll buy unofficial versions for cosplay and such. I’d much rather value the gravitas of grieving for the actual victims of the holocaust in sincerity over defending the right to commodify an element of it

I’m just more frustrated that now groups of people have convinced them to give up on the armbands, those people are going to see what other Anime content they can get cancelled that might ruffle someone’s feathers, almost inevitably. I highly doubt this slither of censorship will be good enough for more dogged activists on the internet
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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 2421
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Yeah. These are very very bad. Let's hope this was just an oversight and not a media stunt.

About Swastikas and other such symbols as SS runes in Germany. You can only use them in historical, satirical or critical context. Nazi zombies are fine (it took a long battle to get here) as they are an evil caricature. Walking with a crossed-out Swastika at a demonstration is also fine. Putting a contextless one on your car or spray painting it on a wall will lead to a criminal charge if you are caught and there is a good chance such an act will be covered by the (local) media. You can theoretically own a Nazi flag and hang it on a wall at home but it´s illegal if it can be seen from a window. You also aren´t allowed to sell such things. Another criminal charge. Only owning them is legal. "Freedom of the German people from Nazism and Militarism" is lastly part of the constitution. There is zero wiggle room. Edgy nazi jokes on the web that lead back to your name can lead to a visit from the police.
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Piglet the Grate



Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 561
Location: North America
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:30 pm Reply with quote
RhinocerousTrilbies wrote:
I’m just more frustrated that now groups of people have convinced them to give up on the armbands, those people are going to see what other Anime content they can get cancelled that might ruffle someone’s feathers, almost inevitably. I highly doubt this slither of censorship will be good enough for more dogged activists on the internet


I hope that anime/manga/LN content continues to be made for the Japanese market in mind and not for foreign markets, since once the latter happens things generally get dumbed down and twisted to Hollywood standards - at that point why even bother? It is not even a matter of agenda/content so much as style, pacing, atmosphere and other intangibles that make watching typical Japanese anime a very different experience from Hollywood cartoons (an analogy would be a quiet specialty café versus a fast food restaurant with blaring televisions and screaming children).

The reactions to the armbands are at a level that would be appropriate if the Attack on Titan franchise was promoting a racist/fascist agenda, but if that is the case it has to beyond the 3½ seasons of anime so far released, or my understanding of the show is radically different from other persons. Is there something in the manga or outside statements by the author adding fuel to the fire?
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StarfighterPegasus



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Pandsu wrote:
Personally, I'm conflicted on this one.
Usually I lean heavily towards the "it's just fiction" side of things, but I do realize that there is both a time and place for anything and that it's definitely a matter of context and execution that determines what's acceptable and what's not. And like many others here, my initial reaction was "who thought this was a good idea?" and that it's a bit tasteless and, if nothing else, just kind of a possible PR nightmare.

But then I remembered how, a decade ago, they promoted the musical The Producers, when it came to Germany for the first time. They hung up very Nazi-looking red banners, with white circles in them, with the only difference being that instead of a black swastika in the middle, you'd find a black pretzel symbol (or apparently sausages as well but I don't remember seeing those).
They had them as flags above stores and, the most insane part, had huge banners with them draped from the theater building, making it look like some kind of WW2-era German headquarters.

Someone from the musical's cast went on TV in full Nazi getup, complete with the pretzel armband, to promote the musical and perform Springtime für Hitler.

All of that sounds terribly insensitive and like it couldn't possibly end well. But, if I'm honest, I thought it was pretty funny and ballzy. And I usually don't find stuff funny just because it's edgy or offensive. But that just... kind of didn't feel anywhere close as bad as I would've thought it would. And I also don't remember there being much offense by the general public at the time, either. People talked about it, wondered if it's okay to make fun of such a serious historical thing, but the reaction wasn't any different from what you'd get with any other piece of entertainment coming out that deals with the second world war and related things.

Which makes me wonder why my initial reaction to this merch was a more negative one.

Now obviously the context is a completely different one. Who Mel Brooks is, as a person, his history but also his many accomplishments, contributed greatly to how I reacted then. And maybe it was just so out there, so ridiculous, just like the subject matter of the original film itself was, that nobody could possibly take it seriously and you just "can't be mad at it".

But if I thought something so extreme as decorating a whole huge theater building with Nazi-like banners was okay, is it really reasonable for me to not be okay with something as comparatively small as Nazi-like cosplay merch?

I don't know.
Like I said, I'm conflicted.
I don't think it would be funny because knowing the history of those atrocities and what those symbols represent its difficult to disassociate them with the atrocities they are based on. With Comedy you have to be very careful when dealing with sensitive topics if you aren't it can comes off as mocking the memory of those who suffered at the hands of those atrocities and the scars that the atrocities leaves behind on communities that were deeply affected by it.
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Princess_Irene
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:09 pm Reply with quote
StarfighterPegasus wrote:

I don't think it would be funny because knowing the history of those atrocities and what those symbols represent its difficult to disassociate them with the atrocities they are based on. With Comedy you have to be very careful when dealing with sensitive topics if you aren't it can comes off as mocking the memory of those who suffered at the hands of those atrocities and the scars that the atrocities leaves behind on communities that were deeply affected by it.


The difference, for my family at least, is that Mel Brooks (writer of The Producers and To Be or Not To Be, which is similar) is Jewish and served in WWII. That means that he and his family, like mine, are the people who suffered. That's very different than something like these armbands, which are coming from the outside, so to speak.
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Replica_Rabbit



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 354
Location: Portland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:11 pm Reply with quote
vampiyan wrote:
Replica_Rabbit wrote:
Germa 66 are the villains, Whitebeard pirates are the good guys. It is totally different and Germa 66 is based on a Kamen Rider villain group Shocker an army of evil people (that was also based on Nazis).


They become good guys by the end of the arc though once Big Mom betrays them.

Good and evil are relative in One Piece though. Most characters are just out for their own interests Luffy literally released hundreds of dangerous criminals from Impel Down just to find his brother, many of which joined up with Blackbeard and made him a bigger threat.

They weren't the "good" guys by the end, they help the Straw Hat escape because they were repaying a debt. The only good guy in Germa was Reiju, everyone else is a heartless monster.
Spoilers
spoiler[Even in the current arc, Sanji still believe them to be evil and refuse to become like them and destroy his raid suit]

a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote:
I actually disagree that it is "problematic" for Asian country to use their cultural symbols just because ignorant westerners can only recognize it (or in manji case mistake it ) as a (stolen) symbol of their own racist past, but here we aren't talking about censoring real millennia-old cultural and religious symbol of other culture, but about not commercializing fictional symbol based directly on Holocaust imagery, so I'll join the chorus of "Who thought it's a good idea?" in this case

I don't think it problematic for them to use the symbols, I like Bleach, and that symbols are all over the Manga and Anime. However, the people in charge of the Anime or Manga do see it as problematic and would self censor so they wouldn't get any backlash. Also, I was reply to a person who bring it up
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:20 pm Reply with quote
RhinocerousTrilbies wrote:
I’m just more frustrated that now groups of people have convinced them to give up on the armbands, those people are going to see what other Anime content they can get cancelled that might ruffle someone’s feathers, almost inevitably. I highly doubt this slither of censorship will be good enough for more dogged activists on the internet

This is, I feel, an overstated concern in this case (despite how certain other anime websites I could name are trying to push it). This is a pretty blatantly bad idea, and one which is far from being just something that Americans might react negatively to. It's not a case of some people being prudish or overly sensitive.
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Gem-Bug



Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 1206
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:52 pm Reply with quote
BonusStage wrote:
Gem-Bug wrote:
I really don't understand the "oh no, cosplay merch ruined" angle, or why anyone would want to cosplay as an armband-wearing, persecuted character, especially since spoiler[all of the ones that are relevant to the story eventually lose/take them off. Like, why cosplay Gabi at her worst/most pitiful instead of after she grows as a person?]. Confused


I don't think the cosplay angle is much of a concern. An armband seems like something even a novice cosplayer could make pretty easily. And if not, a quick search on Etsy reveals there's a lot of people selling these already.


I was mainly referring to the number of comments in this thread lamenting the loss of such a cosplay item.
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1747
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:12 pm Reply with quote
I sometimes wonder in cases like this that, had the original licensor just decided to produce it, not many people would have lined up to buy the item because it was no big deal. But now, with the bad press it has received, lots of people who may not have wanted this item now want to buy it simply because of whatever attention they believe it will receive. People who may not have had any interest in cosplaying this character will now do so for the shock value.
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RegisterJustForComment



Joined: 17 Apr 2018
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:16 pm Reply with quote
People are the one who make cursed item cursed.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:23 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The official website for the Attack on Titan The Final Season anime announced on Monday that the anime's production committee has decided not to offer the Eldian armband as commercial merchandise for the anime, after acknowledging that the armband evokes images of discrimination.


I mean... duh. That's literally what it's used for in the series. It being a cosplay item and getting snatched is kinda lame to me. There's characters that were slaves and part of their outfit has chains on it or they have a brand and when you cosplay them, people keep the chains and they make a fake brand... not because they're pro slavery and branding but because they like the character, they want to dress up as the character, and this is what the characters wears/looks like.

So many anime in the past blatantly dresses up characters like Nazis and will make them either neutral or a hero as opposed to the villain to be reviled. I always thought this I get why the world hates them, but we don't hate them... in fact they're kinda cool take on Nazis was some weird, anime/Japanese cultural thing that you either kinda get over, try to avoid, or you say "this isn't for me". I always thought of it as their Confederacy and every country has some evil, insidious thing that they prop up as being like cool and honorable and they've got their head in the sand on why this isn't ok and pretty much can't be convinced otherwise.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:45 am Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
So many anime in the past blatantly dresses up characters like Nazis and will make them either neutral or a hero as opposed to the villain to be reviled.

Name a couple of good examples of this. I can think of series that used Nazi imagery for a "cool villain" effect, but they were still villains. (And no, Saga of Tanya the Evil does not count here, because those were pre-Nazi Germans.)
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:10 am Reply with quote
a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote:

I've never seen The Producers, but isn't the pretzel thing making fun of Nazis, while armband would be basically straight up cosplaying Holocaust ?

For it to be cosplaying the Holocaust wouldn't it have to have the same symbol that they were forced to use in the Holocaust?

Something like these?

The image shown in the article looks absolutely nothing like this, so I really don't see any issue?

This just reminds me of all those many years ago that tiny group that were upset about the Haruhi Suzumiya armband because they thought she was invoking Nazi imagery/leadership with it. Unfortunately that lobby seems to have massively increased over the years. Just let fiction be fiction, yeesh.
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