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Why is Shinji hated so much?

No, trolling is people who make snapshot judgements about a character they haven't bothered to try to understand.

penguintruth wrote:

No, trolling is people who make snapshot judgements about a character they haven't bothered to try to understand.

No it isn't. He's a fictional character. He has no feelings when we call him a "loser" whether or not we're correct. On the other hand, making assumptions about real people on this forum that may or may not be true I can see as trolling (that isn't what I really saw it as, but I can understand it as being such). Either way, this arguement is now veering into personal aspects with everybody using this "you don't like him because you identify with his loser qualities". An arguement completely based on assumptions. I'm not really wanting to participate in it anymore.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again as it bugs the hell out of me more than just about anything else a user can do on a forum: do not assume you understand a viewpoint that differs from your own and then present what you assume as fact.

And I know my tastes are far from most mainstream anime fans (Ya, don't see much Galaxy Angel or Nurse Witch Komugi fans).

In my opinion, you have no right to complain about anything, unless you are actively trying to change the situation.

Honestly Hellkorn, I'm a little bothered that you seem to assume that people hate the Eva crowd because they are trying to escape from real life and don't want to be reminded of the real world. That certainly is a factor, as there are a great many people who watch anime as a way to relax and take the stress off by distracting themselves from their life, but I'd say it's more than a little naive to claim that's the biggest reason, particularly when you're not speaking from experience.

First of all, and for the files, if someone would ask me to pilot a giant robot against some unknown, equally gigantic enemy I would politely refuse.

If Anno had created some seinen drama, a somewhat realistic tale about children soldiers in Africa or some not too imaginary past there wouldn't have been a problem. NGE would have been praised in the circles that don't want to see some gung-ho superhero.

I don't like him because he won't shut up and kill things already.

He is an idiot crybaby... Shinji's half-retarded brain...

selenta wrote:

I've said this before, but I'll say it again as it bugs the hell out of me more than just about anything else a user can do on a forum: do not assume you understand a viewpoint that differs from your own and then present what you assume as fact.

Eh...... I don't want to be too off topic and sarky, but weren't you the guy who violently disagreed with anybody who thought Suzumiya Haruhi's gimmick-narration wasn't so original and great some months back?

Anyway, I don't quite see what's the problem with Hellkorn's statement. People usually don't want to be entertained by stories and characters which serve as big remainders of reality and/or which don't meet audience's expectations of a certain genre. If that wasn't be the case, art cinema movies would be far more appreciated in general (and Evangelion's ending as well, but that's another story).

I can understand why some some people might dislike Shinji, but how can someone totally hate him? He's voiced by Megumi Ogata, one of the best Japanese VAs out there.

I can understand why some some people might dislike Shinji, but how can someone totally hate him? He's voiced by Megumi Ogata, one of the best Japanese VAs out there.

But seriously, what I really don't understand is why is it that Shinji gets so much hate, but you never hear quite as many people complain about Asuka.

I mean, come on, she angsts because she lost to Shinji. Shinji may have been whiny and spineless, but at least he didn't whine because somebody saved his ass.

Now my thoughts on Shinji. I'm on that mid-bar for this. He is an idiot crybaby, with bigger responsabilities then his brain, or anybodies brain, wants to handle, but he wants to handle how and who he will complain to next about his Horrible situation and past that nobody cares enough about to listen to, because they are FIGHTING GIANT MONSTERS! Either he's doing this at the wrong time or everybody is heartless and it's their fault for his behavior. Shinji's half-retarded brain needs to get on the problem at hand and kill those B1tches, then he can complain to somebody, because they might care at that point.

1) did he ask for these responsibilities?
2) Is he REALLY qualified to take them on or does he merely happen to have 'family connection' and genetics on his side?
3) Clearly HE cares about his past, and as HE is the one who has had this responsibility THRUST upon him surely what HE cares about should be important to those who want him to do that job.
4) Because they are fighting giant monsters the fact they are human and have human thoughts and emotions becomes moot?
5) Tell me, you watch as trained soldiers go into a fight and get gunned down, killed and generally made a lot worse for wear. Then your dad comes up to you and gives you a gun, he then tells you it's now YOUR job to sort this situation out. How do YOU feel about this? Do you HONESTLY think you'd just take the gun and go running out to fight?

Put simply Shinji needs help, if NERV expects him to do this job they should damn well provide it for him.

Uh, he killed spoiler[the most Angels out of all the pilots.] The only time where he ever really shirked that duty was in spoiler[episode eighteen when he didn't want to fight against and potentially kill another human,] which while he could've better handled it, was honestly a humane thing to do.

...weren't you the guy who violently disagreed with anybody who thought Suzumiya Haruhi's gimmick-narration wasn't so original and great some months back?

Anyway, I don't quite see what's the problem with Hellkorn's statement. People usually don't want to be entertained by stories and characters which serve as big remainders of reality and/or which don't meet audience's expectations of a certain genre. If that wasn't be the case, art cinema movies would be far more appreciated in general (and Evangelion's ending as well, but that's another story).

[People who dislike Shinji] yearn to see captivating, powerful people up on screen, displaying achievements, realistic or not, that they could probably only reach in their most imaginative fantasies. When they then encounter a character who acts more realistic, a character who doesn't always pull through and acts accordingly to the conventions that entertainment and expectations have set up, then those type of people are likely to become angry. They don't won't to see failure, to see the negativities of reality because entertainment is through and through the definitive form of escapism. To see a reminder of reality, to see something where they actually have to think and reconsider something in their own world is something that numerous people don't want to deal with.

Someone who is captured and tortured in a war can only do so much, and some people just need help so bad because of some psychological issues in which they simply can't be happy at all.

I don't see where my point is lacking

I agreed that people watch anime as a form of entertainment

they do have to be trying

We don't agree on why Shinji's personality trait of being a 'wet sponge' reminding us of real life is a bad thing.

Anybody who might think that I haven't had any problems needs to stop. Like PantsGoblin said though. I don't like to bring it up or complain to other's about it because it does nothing to help. I just view it as something that can happen to anybody and go on being happy all the time and cracking jokes about everything.

I know he killed the most Angels, and I commend him for doing so. But he's always reluctant to fight and doesn't need to be if he's the only one who's good enough anyway.

And sorry about the terminology?

Second, I was arguing a case, not just repeatedly claiming the same single-minded mantra in the hopes that repeating it a billion times somehow made it true.

Third, as I said I don't have a problem with people who liked Shinji, or the viewpoint that they have; the problem I have is the ignorant assumption that because they like it for one reason, people must dislike it for the exact opposite reason, and then repeatedly claiming that in the face of contradictory first hand testimony.

It's not hypocritical in the slightest.

This is wrong, as I said. I don't dislike him because he makes me think and reconsider my world or anything like that, I dislike him because he has a personality trait I abhor as useless and despicable above all else.

I agreed that people watch anime as a form of entertainment, and I agree that Shinji's attidude may be reminiscent of real people's attitudes at times, but we do not agree on why his personality reminding us of real life is bad.

There's two sides we can look at here:

1.) Hellkorn assumes why I (and other people) must not like something
2.) I tell you the actual reason I don't like it

Which one holds more vaildity to you?

Actually, I would still apply my philosophy to this situation of a POW. I never said they had to actually be effective at changing their situation, or even be trying to break loose every chance they got (as that would actually be counter-productive towards their goal of making it out alive), but they do have to be trying. I also never said how they have to be trying, and in the POW example, the best way to make it out alive is to wait patiently for an opportunity and always be on the lookout for said opportunity by maintaining a healthy mindset. Wallowing in your own misery and not doing anything to help your situation is a prime example of someone who is not trying.

We don't agree on why Shinji's personality trait of being a 'wet sponge' reminding us of real life is a bad thing.

The biggest problem I had was in your repeated claims of understanding the opposing viewpoint of people who dislike Shinji, and making character statements about said people, when several people were claiming otherwise and you just ignored what they said.