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Why is Shinji hated so much?

I never said people never had weaknesses nor did I say we should be able to overcome them at all. Again, I'm just stating what I believe he should've done. It's only considered a mistake to ME and PEOPLE who believe the same. I know that, just speaking out for one of the many sides of criticism.

But all criticism isn't needed. Yet we do it anyway. It's how we attempt to make arguments about things nobody needs to argue about. Especially for fictional characters

Well then, you're forgiven. I never equated a person's worth with their personality or with their personality traits, nor did I in any way imply such a thing. One aspect of a person may be unacceptable to me, that doesn't make the person unacceptable.

Very well, if that is what you've been trying to imply all along, I'll drop it with the understanding that we are saying the same thing and I was misconstruing what you said. The only thing I ask is that you explain to me how this quote, particularly the condescending introspective bolded part, is exactly what you meant and why it is not what I've been claiming you were saying:

HellKorn wrote:

To see a reminder of reality, to see something where they actually have to think and reconsider something in their own world is something that numerous people don't want to deal with

Other things:

HellKorn wrote:

Geez, I would consider that to be a bit too far out there. I'm kind of lost as to where I tried to showcase you as such.

HellKorn wrote:

I'm not saying that you or anyone else are an awful person for feeling that way (though some of your other comments have made me hesitant).

You completely misconstrue what I say, and assume I'm making judgement calls about how people are worthless and make the above statement, then wonder why I think you might just be trying to slander me and discredit my argument that way? (It mostly bothers me that this strategy is attempted so often and is accepted so readily by many people)

You're right, it's not voluntary, so long as you wish to live in this country.

You're absolutely right, life isn't fair. But like I said, you have three options before something like this happens:
1.) do nothing
2.) try and stop it (in this case politically)
3.) move to another country where this problem doesn't exist and thus avoid it

If you do nothing, don't try to stop it, and don't try to change it, but still wish to live in this country without having to do the same things that everyone else in this country does, you're an idiot. Living here, despite what you may believe, is a choice. If you wish to live the life of an American, you have to deal with the responsibilities that come with being a citizen here.

I know this is difficult to understand, but I'll say it one more time: if you were really opposed to doing it, there are ways to get around not doing it. You sound like you're really really against the draft, and I can understand that, but that's a problem with the law itself, not a counterexample to my argument.

I'll agree with the part that says medication is given out too often, but if you're trying to imply that in general "medication is for suckers" you clearly don't work with said people.

Swissman wrote:

Both POV are equally valid, and what Hellkorn "assumes" is actually common sense, but that doesn't mean it's only reason as to why people hate a character like shinji.

What? Both POV are not valid. Assumptions are never valid (until proven so) even if, in some miracle, they're correct. Taking in somebodies reason for not likeing something is more valid, but still (over a forum) doesn't hold much. Anyway, theperson who tells you why they don't like something is normally more valid.

People may say that, but I would make that case that they are far and away a vast minority compared to the reasoning I gave. It may sound condescending, but let's look at the people who at least seem to have supported my claim on this thread (whether that was their intention when they were posting or not):

coffee wrote:

A large amount of opinions I've read, and one that I'm mostly inline with myself is his non-stop whining and inability to act.

PantsGoblin wrote:

sure, I haven't encountered anything like Shinji has, but I have gone through some pretty difficult situations in my life. But I kept my head high and got through them. I just can't accept him for the fact that he puts next to zero effort into improving anything. He just whines. That's all.

Iwatch2muchanime wrote:

Shinji's half-retarded brain needs to get on the problem at hand and kill those B1tches, then he can complain to somebody...So basically I'm saying that in my point of view, he's either to self wollowing or almost everybody else is heartless and don't care.

Although most of the people posting in this thread are Shinji supporters, these were all the snips I could find where people directly say they disliked Shinji and why. All of them seem to support what I was saying. I didn't see a single person come here and claim they didn't like him because he made them think, or because he made them remember they were watching a TV show with his ultra realistic attitude.

Although this comment is not directly for or against what I'm saying, it is a good quote, as it really gets to the root of what I'm saying(and why I was so bothered by HellKorn's one comment), if only indirectly: whether one likes or dislikes Shinji in no way inherently means anything about anything that person's beliefs or values. I didn't dislike Shinji because I didn't want to think about my own life or wanted to avoid some sort of mental reckoning that would have been inevitable had I only been willing to "see the light" by empathizing with Shinji, I didn't like him because he was a whiny brat who didn't do what needed to be done.

His assumption is indeed relatively reasonable, but in the face of direct first-hand contradictory evidence (well, as strong of evidence as is theoretically possible to provide for opinions), it is not equally valid.

And, although I can understand how it fits with his character and it made sense and all, I lost some sympathy for Shinji spoiler[after the hospital scene with Asuka in EoE].

I'm kind of amazed that people seem to focus so much on that particular scene. (That moment is one of the most powerful cinematic moments that I've ever seen, for a number of reasons.) I believe just the act itself is what people hold against, yet they don't consider that spoiler[he didn't rape her while she was drugged, and his intentions weren't the end results. After everything that he had gone though in prior episodes (allowing Toji to lose his leg, Kaji being killed, Misato mourning over his death and sexually advancing on Shinji, Asuka rejecting Shinji, discovering that Rei is a clone of his mother), I can't exactly hold it against him when he was at wits end, not to mention he didn't do the worst things that he could've done.]

and both PantsGoblin and Iwatch2muchanime have said that they dislike people/dislike people having that trait in real life.

Right, Shinji's character was weak and made mistakes. We all do. We agree on this. But I'm just simply saying that after the fact, whether we're criticizing fictional character or criticizing others, it's rather pointless in itself to say "Well, I would've done this differently..." because it's already happened.

Secondly, aye, I finally get why the hell this went down the way it did. You were concentrating solely on that portion of my thoughts. I wasn't just stating that people don't like Shinji because they "reconsider themselves or those around them," nor was I stating that this remained true for everyone. My reply to PantsGoblin is evident of that.

Quote:

HellKorn wrote: Geez, I would consider that to be a bit too far out there. I'm kind of lost as to where I tried to showcase you as such. HellKorn wrote: I'm not saying that you or anyone else are an awful person for feeling that way (though some of your other comments have made me hesitant). You completely misconstrue what I say, and assume I'm making judgement calls about how people are worthless and make the above statement, then wonder why I think you might just be trying to slander me and discredit my argument that way? (It mostly bothers me that this strategy is attempted so often and is accepted so readily by many people)

Uh, no, I wasn't trying to discredit your argument. For me, when it comes to arguing, usually it's more along the egotistical lines of, "It's not that you're wrong, I'm just right."

The second comment in parenthesize actually was referring to some of your thoughts on a person's duty when serving their country, if I recall correctly, so my cause for concern wasn't in you "thinking that people like Shinji are trash."

Bear in mind what I already said. Some people try to make a change. They fail to do so. They want to avoid the arguably unjust duties that their government places upon them, however they don't have the means to escape it (in this case, money). What's left for them to do,really?

I based my point of view on numerous observations. My own opinion has been held and stated by countless people before in some form. I'm not simply pulling something out of me ass, here.

Not of that really goes against the idea that I proposed. Hell, coffee seemingly agreed much with what I said concerning it back on page two, and both PantsGoblin and Iwatch2muchanime have said that they dislike people/dislike people having that trait in real life. Also note I never said that this remains true for every single person who watches it, though it is a concept that can be applied in general because people watch and read entertainment because they want to be taken away from the issues they have/deal with in the real world, so in general they don't want to be reminded of something in the real world. That idea has been around ever since entertainment was established, because entertainment is by and large a form of escapism.

Again, read my first few comments in this post concerning that matter.

Three opinions that are only looked at from one side does not invalidate an opinion, particularly when that opinion has been expressed before and has been agreed upon.

I'm kind of amazed that people seem to focus so much on that particular scene.

And, although I can understand how it fits with his character and it made sense and all, I lost some sympathy for Shinji spoiler[after the hospital scene with Asuka in EoE].

Anno didn't place that scene to spread the Shinji hatred, but to indicate how mentally unstable Shinji was at that time and the madness that he was going through -he had just came out from killing an individual who genuinely cared for him and had an understanding with and now who once was loud and full of life Asuka, completely paralyzed on the hospital bed, I think the scene was also to partially indicate that Shinji was attracted to Asuka. What he did wasn't approved of, but it had a purpose in leting us into how shinji's mentality was at that time.

As far as the attraction was concerned there were plenty of times in the series that showed his attraction without him jackin off to her while she's catatonic. I do agree though that the purpose was to show how unstable he had truly become.

I think he has a right to be the way he does.

and sometimes I wanted him to pull it together. He frustrated me.