Forum - View topicREVIEW: Puella Magi Madoka Magica: the Movie Trilogy 10th Anniversary Blu-ray Box Set
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pachy_boy
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I've heard the opposite argument plenty a time, some suggesting even to give the TV series (or first 2 movies) another look, like maybe we only saw what we wanted. Either way, this is apparently not the end of the story, since a 4th movie has been confirmed last year. I'm one of the few casual Madoka Magica fans who actually appreciated Rebellion as is, but I'm still intrigued to see what Shinbo has in store next. Great analytical review! |
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CastMember1991
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There was one scene in Rebellion that I was always confused by, and it was the one where those dolls randomly threw tomatoes while chanting "Gott ist tot." What was that all about?
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2606 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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It means "God is dead," a quotation from Nietzsche, and my theory is that it's part of the overall Christian imagery in the film - Homura's transformation could be read as a "fall" in the sense that she's a fallen angel. But she's also killing a god when she makes her choice about Madoka.
I thought about that theory, too, and I think it definitely has a lot of merit. Magical girls as a genre are about wish-fulfillment and empowering girls (that's my theory, anyway), and so if we go into the series with only those assumptions in mind, we could definitely argue that it was only showing us what we expected, with many thrown off my the more obvious darkness. Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the review! |
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CastMember1991
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Interesting. I gotta admit, Rebellion was pretty disappointing in the fact that spoiler[Homura turned into a demon,] but I do love the fact that Kyubey got his comeuppance for ruining the lives of so many innocent human girls. |
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Villain-chan
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FAIR WARNING. Any further reading will contain spoilers, if u ahvent seen movies 1-3 and or the TV series + movie 3 please watch b4 reading further. Major spoilers so last chance... So, Homura's wish was to go back and meet Madoka and be the one to protect her. A wish which might I add, was only ever half fulfilled. She never got to protect her as the timeline ALWAYS ended in failure. At the end of movie 2 (TV series' end) Homura once again (This wasn't the first time) hears Madoka, believes what she is saying. Listens to her. (VERY IMPORTANT HERE for whats gonna be the breaking point for Homura's choice in movie 3) And thus ABANDONS her mission to save her which might I remind u and add, it was another Madoka from an earlier timeline that caused Homura to be so bent on her NOT becoming a Magical Girl. So when Homura, whose so obsessed with Madoka and has gone through a crap ton of timelines (I forget the exact number but years wise I think the number was around 27 years, yeah, let THAT sink in, repeating the same small time frame for many years...) is about to become a Witch herself, and hears and sees Madoka's wish and sacrifice while listening to her (Hesitantly and panicky at first ofc), this is when she lost her why. This at the SAME TIME set up the events of the Manga's Wraith Arc which btw, I'd HIGHLY REC u to read, but only if u've seen movie 3 first as it explains a LOT and even has more insight to Homura as a char, the issue i s reading the manga first spoils movie 3, but likewise movie 3 spoils the manga... however its my belief that its more important to avoid the movie 3 spoiler than the spoiler for the Wraith Arc manga which is why i rec reading the manga after movie 3, even though the manga comes b4 the 3rd movie. Anyway, back on track, but it ALSO set up at the same time for what would be even possible in the 3rd movie. Which we'll get to soon enough. What is it that was set up? Well, a new reality is one thing which ya'll know but it was Homura and Madoka's wishes mingling with each other to create something more than a Magical Girl. This is why Homura is able to follow Madoka to where she was b4 reality was remade, this is also why her powers were what they were at the end of movie 2 and TV series and the Wraith arc and even movie 3 (Though movie 3 lacks explanation on why she is missing her time powers, wraith arc explains this as does spoiler[the Tart] manga, which doesn't have much mention of the Madoka series but this explains certain things for Madoka and Homura). In the Wraith arc manga and for the purposes of explaining her character,without spoiling, I'll just say she was NOT happy being in that reality without Madoka, and her very being is called into q on more lvs than 1. Seriously go read that manga. It'll help further explain her actiosna nd character which i refuse to spoil her that manga's story but will help better paid with that in mind for what am about to say. This brings us FINALLY, to the end of the wraith arc and the START of the 3rd movie. (Again, read the wraith arc manga for what happened lol) As u know, movie 3 is Homura having been captured by Kyubey, put into something to make her become a Witch, wraith arc explains this is coming (Which is why I said it spoils movie 3...) and b4 I go further, YES, Wraith arc IS canon, was made by the same group that made the OG series and movie 3. Anyway, its at this point Homura has to wake up but when she suspects soemthing isnt right and finally figs what it is out, she sees Madoka one last time b4 she decides to wake up, THIS, is THE turning point itself for WHY she does what she does, combined with the two Madokas in the two timelines I mentioned b4. Homura talks with Madoka and asks her a VERY important q, becus she KNOWS whats going on and I forget if she knows thats the real Madoka or just a figment of her own psyche, but either way whats about to e said WILL affect her and thus make her choice to do what she does. I forget the exact words but she asks Madoka if she'd sacrifice herself or something along those lines basically. Its important to note that Madoka in Homura's world has no memory of what happened, and in fact, has had her memory altered like everyone else (Due to Homura's new Witch power which at this point is in its infancy) so her answering the q if she is real, isn't fair as but Homura likely knows that and asks her anyway as she wanted to know if Madoka FORCED herself to sacrifice herself. (But the answer still isnt fair as people can change due to exp they live in life and the exp Madoka lived through changed her so yes she would've given a dif answer but Homura may not realize this or doesn't want too if she does, hopefully movie 4 answers this...) Likewise if this is NOT the real Madoka but asking this ver of Madoka becus she is Homura's psyche, her heart essentially (Which this Madoka is not her psyche, she is the real deal) then by asking this Madoka, her psyche, her heartm she could get the final answer about what she herself wishes to do. UNFORTUNATELY for everyone (perhaps, movie 4 may answer this pos, neg, neutral etc.), Madoka has to answer under altered memories and her answer as u know it is, "no, I wouldn't be able to sacrifice myself" Its at this point, 3 things happen at the same time which we see. Homura's ribbon coems off (Or maybe it came off b4 but IRC it coems off after Madoka's answer is given) signifying the return of Coolmura (As Moemura wears glasses), Coolmura herself makes her choice, having realized she herself STRAYED from not just her wish, which a reminder, was only ever HALF granted, she STILL hasn't been able to protect Madoka, but also from her own path. and finally, she heads off to confront the truth of this world. Which we then see the rest of what happens. All thr while Homura is still trying to protect Madoka and the reality she made, her sitch is bleak, even going so far as to sacrifice herself so Kyubey cannot get his way and hurt Madoka. madoka once again is the one who protects Homura and reaches out her hand to her, Homura hesitant at first but knowing at this point this is really Madoka takes her hand and fights back against Kyubey and what Kyubey is trying to do to her, Madoka and the world. It is at this point we come to the PIVITAL and SHOCKING moment if u like me upon first watching, r NOT aware of Homura's character and have placed ur own ideas of who Homura is onto her. Homura is willing to become the villain herself, do bad thigns, not care about anyone and KILL all if its to protect, Madoka, her precious first friend whom she loves dearly that it hurts. These words u'd normally save for AFTER u've finished ur anaylsis of a character but I say them her to lead into and get to whats comign so u can better grasp it. Back to the real world we are, Homura sees Madoka in her now true form, comign down to "save" her. But, the MOMENT Madoka reaches out, Homura's facade comes off, her smile genuine, happy to see her friend again, is also happy to finally protect her, by RIPPING her in two. Separating her from the Law of Cycles (Her Ultimate Magical Girl form) and remaking the entire reality once again, what that reality truely is or looks like is very hard to say and am not even sure if movie 4 will answer it.. (I say this thanks to the ending for Magia Record's anime which spat on the rest of the series, game's story does not do that and isn't filled with contradictions a is canon to the rest of the series) Homura then b4 reality is remade, turns into soemthign mroe than a Magical girl and mroe than a Witch, her powers now no longer in their infancy, her transfermation able to happen due to her and Madoka's wishes mingling together and due to the power she stole from the Law of Cycles, remakes reality but right b4 doing so, says some VERY profound words. "Love" and "even pain is precious to me" Need I mention, obsessed and in love with Madoka here? Madoka is precious to Homura and she'll go as far as becoming a devil herself to protect her. And, that is EXACTLY what she does. Reality gets remade and everyone is seemingly happy, while Homura herself seems to suffer even still when Madoka herself who was ripped in two, now an ordinary girl who due to Homura's powers, begins to recall her true form, and upon seeing this Homura panics once again and uses her powers to make Madoka forget once again. We then end with two scenes, the 1st scene is Homura PROFOUNDLY saying the exact same words she said to Madoka at the very start of where the anime series "begins" (after the "dream" and uupon Madoka "first" meeting Homura in class at the start of the series from our [point of view on first watch) all while making a despair, desperation and crazyish look she says "Do you love your family, do you cherish those you hold dear" and so on."Then don't change" I forget if she says this next line b4 she says that or after it but i feel its b4, the line is "It seems even u will become my enemy" or something along those lines. When we pair both sentences is, it means Homura, for the sake of Madoka herself, is WILLING, even if it kilsl and pains her, to fight Madoka herself if it means keep Madoka safe. Whats UNCLEAR is if she was saying that to the Law of Cycles Madoka or the Madoka in front of her whose been ripped from the law of cycles, or both. The next scene we see if of Homura, not seemingly happy (Up to interpretation) but for sure cold, abusing Kyubey and its copies. The anime ends with Homura falling off a cliff which is likely another message in and of itself and perhaps, a hint at whats to come... (Make no mistake, Homura is still alive, she has wings now and can likely fly, even then a fall wouldn't be enough to kill her) This is Homura's TRUE character, she LOVES Madoka and is obsessed with her. She is just trying to protect the one she loves and is willing to do whatever it takes to protect her and her wish and Madoka's wish have granted both power that lead to this all being possible. Sadly, many of us miss this about Homura and put our own beliefs about who she is as a character, wrongfully onto her and thats why we end up HATING the movie or not liking it, even depressed and other neg feelings becus we BELIEVE Homura would never do any of what she does at the end of movie 3, we OURSELVES are essentially in our own Witch world like Homura once was, blind to the truth but then when the truth is discovered, we wake up and realize the truth of the reality. When u look at the movie and her character with ALL THIS KNOWLEDGE in mind. it all opens a grander picture that changes how u see the movie, its themes and the characters, esp Homura, as a whole and u likely will respect the movie for all that it accomplishes in the series itself, and for how it affects us as the audience too and may even like or love the movie too, whether u agree with Homura's choice or not is another story and not one am even touching here lol. I just hope movie 4 doesn't mess things up... real worried thanks to the magia record anime... And that, ends my analysis of the series and Homura as a character and why she does what she does at the end of movie 3. I thank those who I found online who made vids and posts that explained her character as without that, this post wouldn't be possible and I'd still be hating movie 3. Now I love movie 3 and my respect and love for Homura has only grown. Hopefully this helped u fellow Madoka fans too :) I promise u if u watch and pay attention, u'll see everything I've pointed out the case and truth. Just look at Sayaka, horribly presented in the OG series, made awesome in Wraith Arc and Movie 3. The Madoka series is NOT a 1 dimensional and trope character series, these characters are alive and have personalities their own. How they react to things is also different just like real life depending on whats happening at the time, which we see a bit of in the series itself when Moemura repeats the same timeline a few times for us to see. Lastly, thanks to anyone who read this much, no wonder it took me hrs to type up, its a giant post so thank you for reading, ur time and hope u enjoyed it but most importantly, hope this helps ya to better appreciate the series, movie 3 and Homura as a character. |
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whiskeyii
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I've always been kind of mixed on this movie, but I was more sour on it when we didn't know there was going to be a continuation. I've heard more than a few people toss around the idea that there's a spoiler[time loop of Madoka's making in play to grant Homura's ultimate wish] this time around, but time will tell, eh? If nothing else, I did like that this film gave us more insight into Mami, who was pretty neglected by the TV series and was kind of more of a prop than anything else, which was pretty unkind when you look back at the series' thesis. And I'm one of those fans who is pleased to see a happier end for Sayaka (as much as my melodramatic-loving heart both loved and dreaded her arc in the TV series--I am a sap to my core!)
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strawberry_milk
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If it didn't, then I don't know what constitutes a reinvention to you. |
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Kicksville
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I still remember the time when people were praising Madoka as being a subversion of the magical girl genre, then making big lists of ways how, which were all stuff previous magical girl shows had definitely done before. Which then made it apparent that a lot of people saying this didn't actually watch these shows beyond maybe a few episodes of Sailor Moon as a kid. And this attitude often seemed to be based on the assumption of it being a disposal garbage genre. (For a similar situation: Dating sims) I get the feeling this review doesn't want to fall into that trap, which is fair enough. I'm certainly glad it doesn't go all the way into the opposite direction, like the recent trend of people saying Evangelion is just an Ultraman rip-off. |
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nobahn
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This is just my 2¢ as I've neither read the manga nor watched the anime; but I believe that in the TV series that Gen Urobuchi takes the ending from the original Sailor Moon manga and makes it his own. But this is just my (uninformed) opinion. |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 2606 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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I don't want to fall into either that trap or the one of saying that it's fully derivative, because I believe that the series is an important step in the genre's evolution, just not the end-all, be-all or a subversive reinvention of a genre that, as you said, gets written off a lot. Probably because it was originally for little girls, but that's a different discussion. Or maybe it's not, because I think one of the things Madoka did was reframe the darkness inherent in magical girl stories in a way that a different audience could appreciate it, thus bringing the genre into wider, and perhaps less gendered, awareness. |
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louis6578
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In truth, calling it a subversion of the genre is reductive both to Madoka and the Magical Girl genre. It's just telling a darker and more mature story, but I wouldn't say that this is necessarily doing much that Nanoha and Tutu didn't earlier. It'd be like saying Fate/Zero is a subversion of Battle Royale stories just because a tragedy.
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Nev999
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Madoka wasn't even the first story to do 'the mascot actually has hidden motives and is exploiting the magical girl', spoiler[Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne] already did that in the 90's, and the manga even went into a conceit of 'you can't be powerful if you don't remain "pure'" in a albeit in a way that was more straightfoward, critical of Christian dogma, and obvious about the link between that idea and the idea of "virgin" in our society (and was also way more straightforward in going "and that's total garbage"). Also, it used a lot of Christian imagery and theology.
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nobahn
Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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Upon further reflection, I would just like to add the following.....
To be sure, it is possible to overstate the significance of Madoka Magica; but, in my opinion, it is far easier to understate the said significance. For example, after the third episode of Madoka came out everyone became familiar with the concept of, "waiting until the 3rd episode before making a preliminary judgement." The concept already existed, but thanks to Gen Urobuchi, it became well known in the anime community. Or consider what happened here at ANN. When Madoka Magica first came out Zac Bertschy ─ just like everyone else ─ was fooled into thinking that it was just another typical magical girl series. I wasn't paying any attention, so I didn't see the chatter as it was coming out week by week; but I did see chatter about the chatter. And When Zac (everyone called him that) had the temerity to change his mind, boy, was he ever pilloried by the trolls! But that was not the extent of the impact that Madoka had on Zac ─ and, in turn, ANN. When the Blu-Rays came out he exercised one of the privileges of being executive editor ─ he assigned the review to himself. The Blu-Rays were released individually (and expensively!) and, thus, he reviewed them individually. And for the review of the third disk he changed ANN policy ─ yet another privilege of being executive editor ─ and included spoilers in his review. Name me any other anime that had anywhere near that kind of impact on ANN. |
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Juno016
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Some of this is accurate, but a lot of it feels like youtube-theory level weird interpretation that stretches the text a bit far. Ultimately, I'd agree that Rebellion is about Homura granting her own wish while trying to keep the spirit of Madoka's wish going (though Madoka stated she wanted to erase witches "by [her] own hands", so Madoka's wish is in direct conflict with Homura's). Also, I need to emphasize something to push back on another issue. The Wraith Arc manga was NOT created/written by the actual team behind the series and Rebellion. It was written and illustrated solely by Hanokage with some of Magica Quartet's supervision, and it was written from scratch long after the release of Rebellion, meaning Rebellion was not written to accomodate Wraith Arc's story beats either. We know Hanokage discussed the nature of wraiths with some Magica Quartet's members (likely InuCurry, who were directly involved in their design and lore), but the extent to the manga's exploration of wraiths or its canon regarding Homura's powers to the future of the series is questionable, especially considering the lore directly contradicts the series' lore regarding how Homura's shield works. spoiler[In the Wraith Arc, Homura is able to go back in time to the moment she returned to the timeline at the end of the original anime and prevent the wraith disaster her shield caused. However, in the original series, Homura's shield's time reversal powers had a limit strictly to that month up to the Walpurgisnacht attack, which was showcased on screen with the hourglass present in her shield and later explained in detail by Urobuchi himself. Otherwise, time stopping was all she could do.] Also, spoiler[Kyubey got hold of proof of Homura's time reversal powers in the Wraith Arc and that was used to try and explain why the incubators started their experiment in the first place, but this directly contradicts Rebellion, where he stated very explicitely to Homura that they got their first piece of real evidence only after starting the experiment, when Homura's powers changed and Madoka somehow found her way in.] Finally, Shinbo said the Wraith Arc is canon in a Kirara Magia volume, but this is the same guy that said Rebellion is a sequel to the films, not the TV series (after Urobuchi said multiple times that Rebellion was written as a sequel to the TV series), so it might be canon to him, but it you care at all about "Word of God", I don't think he counts as "God". Besides, the Wraith Arc was written to bridge the series and Rebellion, but it's not necessary to understand Rebellion at all. Every question regarding why Homura made the statements and choices she did are already in Rebellion itself (though it may take more than one watch to pick up on them) and nothing outside the original TV series/movies and Rebellion are needed to close any plot holes. Beyond that, we don't know what about the manga's new wraith lore is true. Only that some of it has to be true. -------- Anyway, thanks for the review! I already have the really nice Japanese BD releases of all three films. Mine are obviously missing an English dub (they include English subtitles), but I'm curious if there's anything else included in this anniversary release that isn't already in my BD discs. I love all things Madoka, of course. I just don't really see the point of getting the new set if all I'm getting is a new box art and English dub. My last comment involves the ending of Rebellion. "Fanfiction" isn't quite the level I'd place it. It definitely feels edgy, but it's perfectly in line with Homura's character in the original series and pulls the trigger on multiple chekov's guns lined throughout the film very strategically. It's also quite deceptive. Homura acts evil to fulfill a thematic role she is claiming in her relation to Madoka and the other characters, but the moment she calls herself "evil", the screen flips through a bunch of inkblots, clearly intended to symbolize bringing her personal framing into question. I do really like how it's a completely different kind of bittersweet opposite the TV series' ending. The TV series' ending was extremely bright in tone for nearly the entire final episode, bringing audiences' feelings in line with Madoka's--giving hope to the future. However, it is still bitter in that the cruel world for magical girls was left only a little bit less cruel than before. And as fans pointed out (which gave Urobuchi part of his idea for Rebellion's plot and twist), telling Kyubey about Madoka was a big mistake that put Madoka in danger should Kyubey and his super advanced hive mind be able to harness her power. To contrast that, Rebellion's ending uses dark/sad music, dull colors, and jarring visuals to hammer dread and discomfort into the audience, reflecting Homura's fear and instability over her new role. And yet, this is a world where Madoka (a core piece of her, at least) is allowed to live in peace and Kyubey is actually tamed and no longer a danger to anyone, which is a significantly better position to leave off in than the TV series. Masterfully done, imo. My only complaint is that it clearly wasn't intended to be the end of the story and going a near decade with no signs of a follow up has been... retroactively harder to justify. |
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Nev999
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I mean, yeah, no disrespect to Zac, but that's talking about it's impact on one person and the website he ran. That's great, but I don't think it's a huge blip when talking about the evolution of the genre. There's no denying Madoka was popular with fans. I do think Madoka undeniably had an impact on the magical girl genre in popularizing the dark magical girl story, but I wouldn't call that impact a good one (for me personally). In the slew of Madoka imitators that have come out since, I can think of very few I've actually liked. Granbelm wasn't terrible. I guess. Maybe Flip Flappers would count too, but it was definitely sort of doing it's own thing- possibly a thing it wouldn't have been able to do without Madoka's precedent, idk, but before Madoka there was Utena soooo.... (It's not Madoka's fault that it led to a slew of really bad imitators, and it's not it's fault it also led to fans obnoxiously downplaying titles that came before it, but both things did happen, and it's a bit sad we don't get new stories aimed at girls anymore unless they're Precure or a reboot. ) I think what people are saying here is the originality/innovation of Madoka as a 'dark magical girl story' is exaggerated, especially by fans who aren't actually familiar with what came before it. Rebecca doesn't do that because she knows what she's talking about, which I'm glad for. |
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