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EP. REVIEW: Lycoris Recoil


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we love lain



Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:18 am Reply with quote
dm wrote:
I'm usually too lazy for wall-o-text forum posts, but you raise a number of interesting points about the series and its writing, "we love lain" (e.g., the strength of the "showing, not telling").

So even if you don't end up convincing 09jcg, and even if I'm not actually interested in settling the "Is Chisato a Mary Sue?" question, you should know that your efforts aren't entirely wasted.


Thanks; I genuinely appreciate that. I think 09 has reason to suspect Chisato is a mary sue but the nuance of deciphering that answer and whether or not it applies to her is what I find interesting to argue. I don't think it does yet, but I guess we'll see soon enough
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gumbaloom



Joined: 11 Sep 2017
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:30 am Reply with quote
OK episode 4 is such a tease…will be interested to see the review

A ….underwear’s themed episode?!?
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Alphonae



Joined: 19 Oct 2021
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:36 am Reply with quote
It was an episode cehtred on underwear, yet there wasn't a single panty shot. Kind of rude, if you ask me.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:14 am Reply with quote
Well, personally, I'm sort of impressed that they got through an entire episode based around girls shopping for underwear without doing anything that would have to be censored for broadcast. Though I don't know what to make of the fact that they decided to use that plot device in the first place. And my main takeaway was that the adult woman at the cafe should be fired for sexual harassment.

It's hard to tell where this show is going on either front. On the slice-of-life side, after episodes 3 and 4, it's difficult to see Chisato and Takina's relationship as totally platonic; but any hint of gayness in anime not explicitly labeled as yuri/yaoi tends to be a bait-and-switch that leads to nothing in the end. And the political plot has so far only gotten more convoluted, with the addition of an unhinged terrorist primarily trying to get crime back on the news. This is one of those shows where we probably won't know if it's great or awful until near the end.

I also still haven't figured out how hacker-child was operating for at least 3 decades. Either she's way older than she looks, or her hacker name was a multi-generational title.
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dm
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:11 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
I also still haven't figured out how hacker-child was operating for at least 3 decades. Either she's way older than she looks, or her hacker name was a multi-generational title.


The "Dread Pirate Roberts" of the hacker world.

I'm finding the tonal shifts somewhat off-putting, even though each scene, in isolation, is five stars. The reviewer is right --- these characters and their interactions work really well for me.

It's also becoming clear to me that I will need to watch this series through a few times, because each episode contains seemingly trivial moments that become significant by episode's end. I'm sure there are things like that in early episodes which will not pay off until the end.


Last edited by dm on Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lindomare



Joined: 16 Jul 2022
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:14 am Reply with quote
Sorry, panty shots are nice. fudge anyone who says otherwise.
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Wasureta



Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:43 pm Reply with quote
Here is my off-the-wall prediction:

Chisato is genki only because defending Tokyo Skytree by herself traumatized her. It's all a front for her. She killed so many people that she refuses to kill anymore, which is the official reason she got her kicked out of DA. That's on top of her trying to look for someone from 10 years ago. This comedic start will turn dark and gruesome by the end. (LOL)

On another note, is Chisato a lycoris? It appears to me that she WAS a lycoris.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 391
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:02 pm Reply with quote
At first I thought the underwear thing was going to be weird... but it worked? It wasn't
leery, though both our leads got several views, the audience never got much of anything. I imagine the beats could have been achieved with something else, but perhaps that wouldn't have been as funny. And it did communicate a bunch of character details. Chisato got to roll out her high-energy senpai routine, and Takina having presumably been under the wing of DA from an incredibly early age having no real concept of common sense or much anything not relevant to the murder of those deemed by an AI to be a danger to society. However that straight faced naiveite derails Chisato more than once.

We also see that Chisato genuinely does get a kick out of helping people, and perhaps the contrast between the French tourists struggling to read a menu and the situation at the subway is interesting (not that they're anything like the same scale of problem). Though I think it's also true she's much more of a level headed pragmatist than she appears and knows getting involved would bring only problems. At least some of that goofy flirty persona is an act. That's not to say it's a lie, it's just I think she actively chooses to present that particular facet of who she is. Behind it she's still every bit the analytical and situationally aware tactician the DA trained her to be, capable of making cold dispassionate decisions in service of her goals. I guess we'll see if there are any emotional repercussions for either Chisato or Takina next week when they (presumably) find out a bunch of Lycoris died there.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:34 pm Reply with quote
I think if there's one thing we can say for certain about this show, it's that there's more going on than we realise. Anything that seems odd about the situation is going to have some reason behind it.

Wasureta wrote:
Chisato is genki only because defending Tokyo Skytree by herself traumatized her. It's all a front for her. She killed so many people that she refuses to kill anymore, which is the official reason she got her kicked out of DA.

Agreed. I've been getting Himura Kenshin vibes from her the whole time.
Wasureta wrote:
On another note, is Chisato a lycoris? It appears to me that she WAS a lycoris.

I would say she still is - she wears the uniform, is authorised to act as one, has access to DA headquarters, etc etc. She's just assigned to the cafe and is something of a special case regarding what she is required to do.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:25 pm Reply with quote
Ep4 was some extremes. I'm still undecided on how well I think the show marries it's lighter and darker elements. They frequently kinda come out of nowhere and are then brushed off again almost immediately. Maybe that tonal whiplash is the intent. It certainly reinforces the feeling that Chisato's high energy cheerfulness is a front of some description (rather than naivete I think, though clearly her idealized picture of the man who saved her is very far from the man Shinji really is). She's looking away from a lot of things, focusing on moment to moment experiences and small acts of kindness.

I suspect we won't interrogate the "secret quasi-governmental death squad" thing all that much. Instead, we'll be asked to be sympathetic as a clear monster sets out on a campaign of targeted serial murder of the Lycoris girls. It'll presumably hit at least Takina very hard when they find out.

If the show wanted to though, between the DA, the Alan Institute and the LycoReco cafe crew, we've got some very different moral philosophies about how the world should work that could be explored. (The Alan Institute is kinda a Nietzschain cult I guess? They believe in some sort of greater good that is served by elevating "geniuses" of all kinds and maximizing their impact. The DA is a more traditional totalitarian "greater good" setup that we've seen numerous times before. I guess they're kinda utilitarian?. Chisato's position might best be described as hedonism, favoring individual happiness.)
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dm
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:51 pm Reply with quote
Episode 5

Another episode of misdirection and disguise. spoiler[I'm not sure who is behind the puppet show, nor why]

Plus a surprising revelation about Chisato's physiology, which makes some of her superpowers a bit more credible (I am assuming that this is just the first of several revelations about her). Bonus: it leads to a rather sweet moment at the end.

Also, we learn a bit more about "Sensei".

For random reasons I rewatched the first four episodes last night. This series is good enough to merit that kind of attention.

Chisato was involved in a significant way with the Tokyo Tower incident ten years ago (which was also the time she became an Allen awardee). She was 7 years old?

I'm fully expecting to learn that spoiler[the subway terrorist is also an Allen awardee.] And, I'm expecting this series to sink to Gunslinger Girls levels of pathos and despair by the end.


Last edited by dm on Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yttrbio
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Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:09 pm Reply with quote
Thesarum wrote:
I suspect we won't interrogate the "secret quasi-governmental death squad" thing all that much. Instead, we'll be asked to be sympathetic as a clear monster sets out on a campaign of targeted serial murder of the Lycoris girls. It'll presumably hit at least Takina very hard when they find out.
It's no From the New World, but to the extent I care, I definitely am rooting for the "villains" here. I hope that doesn't put me so far outside the expected outlook the show is expecting to make the show unenjoyable.
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dm
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Thesarum wrote:
I suspect we won't interrogate the "secret quasi-governmental death squad" thing all that much. Instead, we'll be asked to be sympathetic as a clear monster sets out on a campaign of targeted serial murder of the Lycoris girls. It'll presumably hit at least Takina very hard when they find out.


I am sticking with my assessment of part K-On, part Psycho-pass, though I'm expecting it to go further and further toward the Psycho-pass end of the spectrum.

Quote:
If the show wanted to though, between the DA, the Alan Institute and the LycoReco cafe crew, we've got some very different moral philosophies about how the world should work that could be explored. (The Alan Institute is kinda a Nietzschain cult I guess? They believe in some sort of greater good that is served by elevating "geniuses" of all kinds and maximizing their impact. The DA is a more traditional totalitarian "greater good" setup that we've seen numerous times before. I guess they're kinda utilitarian?. Chisato's position might best be described as hedonism, favoring individual happiness.)


That's an interesting way to look at the setup. It's a bit early to say what the Alan Institute is up to, but Nietzschean might not be a bad description (to the extent I understand Nietzsche) for exactly the reason you mention.

The DA is maybe Straussian? Rule by an elite, supported by a "noble lie" to keep the masses in line.

I think "hedonism" now has too many connotations of self-indulgence (well, Chisato's got a ton of that, for sure). I'm tempted to say "Epicurean" that term's drifted away from its original meaning of eudaemonia to be used almost exclusively in a culinary sense. Maybe Chisato is the utilitarian one.

And where's Takina in all this?
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:39 am Reply with quote
dm wrote:
I think "hedonism" now has too many connotations of self-indulgence (well, Chisato's got a ton of that, for sure). I'm tempted to say "Epicurean" that term's drifted away from its original meaning of eudaemonia to be used almost exclusively in a culinary sense. Maybe Chisato is the utilitarian one.

And where's Takina in all this?


Fair, I intended hedonism as a broad philosophical group, rather than the party-obsessed excess it's often (somewhat incorrectly) associated with... but epicurean might be closer anyway.

Takina, I think, is some form of pragmatic realist. The DA has tightly controlled her world up to this point, so prior to joining LycoReco she was applying that to a deliberately distorted worldview. But Chisato is exposing her to a lot of new experiences and perspectives, and as she integrates that, she is adjusting her priorities and approaches. She remains analytical, tries to avoid emotional decision making, and seeks out rules and order. Maybe she's a stoic? (Which I guess puts her in natural opposition to Chisato's hedonism/epicureanism?)
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:39 pm Reply with quote
I get that we're focused on our splinter group and not the main Lycoris faction, but I'd still to liked to have had a bit more follow up with what happened after the train incident. You'd think potentially losing a dozen or so agents would be significant.

Good thing for Mizuki Jin wasn't the type of assassin to kill everyone in his way.

Chisato may use rubber bullets to avoid killing, but a few point blank shots to the gut could still be pretty harmful, if not deadly. Maybe she should start working on her aim? Laughing
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